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I will paraphrase astrophysicist John Wheeler regarding the Milky Way galaxy and say that measuring the edge of jazz is like measuring the edge of a sneeze.
We all know where the glutinous core is but the outer reaches fade out into the intergalactic medium/handkerchief.
And then there are whole satellite galaxies/snot bergs orbiting and colliding with ours.
Actually that might just be me.
Ah Autumn, season of mists and mild maladies.
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10-23-2019 04:51 AM
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I think I caught something just reading that.
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hmm... yeah, still not "getting it". He's just to manic for me (which is ironic, because his personality is anything BUT).
Full disclosure: I've never been a huge bebop fan, I prefer Ben Webster to Charlie Parker, and Johnny Smith to Tal Farlow.
Actually, now that I've said that, Stern (and Farlow) kind of strike me as guitar versions of Bird, lol.
I guess, having grown up on big band jazz (and later going BACK in time to Louis Armstrong on my own), I just don't like the melody to be adulterated that much. (not a criticism; as I have already said- "you can't like everything")
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Ok so out of interest, are there modern/contemporary style players you like (have that quality though not the same style) or is it all old school stuff for you?
Originally Posted by ruger9
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But, and this is the important issue, does anyone do a better Miles impression than Mike Stern?
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Something I've always enjoyed about Stern is that he always appear to go for broke. You never get the sense that he's phoning it in regardless of context. That leads to an almost rock n roll kind of energy even when he's clearly playing anything but. Arent too many guitarists who can take the next solo after a Bob Berg or Michael Brecker and keep the intensity going.
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That's a good question. I guess we'd have to first qualify it as JAZZ players? Because there are TONS of modern players I love. But none of them are straight-up jazz. On guitar, anyway. When I think jazz guitar, I think Johnny Smith, Kenny Burrell, T-Bone Walker (obviously not straight up jazz), Charlie Christian.... Smith is sometimes categorized as a bebop guy... smooth bop maybe? Originally Posted by christianm77
Not sure where we would draw the line with "modern".... Benson? Wes? We've already talked about the Frissel's and Campilongo's...
I do like Bickert. Who doesn't? But most of the modern guys I like (regarding jazz) are the ones who have some jazz sensibilities mixed into their gumbo. Guthrie Trapp is one. Andy Timmons actually did a bossa nova album recently. Setzer has a ton of jazz chops in his playing. Of course there's Campilongo who I LOVE. And now one of his protoge's, Luca Benedetti. There's a guy that calls himself El Twanguero (Diego Garcia) out of spanich market- love that guy. Paul Pigat can jazz his ass off, despite being known primarily as a rockabilly guy...like Setzer there's alot of jazz in WHAT he does.
As I'm typing this, I'm realizing that what I think I like is the jazz sensibility- to take something and make it your own. As they say in the Tour de France, Hors Categorie, beyond category. I've read some books on jazz (the concept, mindset, if you will), and as a musical art form, especially when played with others, it's pretty tough to beat... the creativity, spontaneity, the playing what you fell at that moment, the interaction with others affecting what you play... and I know I'll get lampooned for this, but I think Steve Vai- no jazz player AT ALL (self-admitted), plays music with that mindset, at least when he's creating it. The live shows probably aren't very spontaneous because it's more of a rock show, but on his creativity side, the taking music where is hasn't gone rating is pretty high.
As for non-guitar jazz, I'd have to say much the same. I really dig Harry Connick (the piano player, not the singer)- he can play his ass off, it's just not what people will buy from him, unfortunately. But when I'm pulling out some jazz, it's usually Ben Webster, Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins, Nat Cole Trio (instrumentals, altho love his vocal stuff too). Or if I want to get happy it'll be Goodman or Miller, Louis Jordan, LOUIS ARMSTRONG.
A few for your listening pleasure:
...and Timmons, ripping with Mimi Fox
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Christian Miller has more substance and thoughtful analysis in his idle ranting than a lot of people have in their serious posts. I'm not a Mike Stern fan, but I can hear the jazz in what he does and I also tend to think jazz is a huge point of reference and orientation for him, even though his technique and delivery are more fusion/rock. The substratum is jazz and bop. Hard not to hear that. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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...damn... Originally Posted by christianm77
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That's a perfect description of Stern, imo. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Just an update to my last post:
I JUST discovered Mimi Fox... REALLY digging her. I've seen her picture in the back of one of the Guitar magazines for years (probably in an ad for a guitar builder or something), but never really noticed. Everything I've seen so far, I love her and will be buying some of her stuff today!
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You should also check out Sheryl Bailey, another great player.
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Campilongo is a really interesting one. I should listen to him more. Unique style. Originally Posted by ruger9
I like Vai's interest in the process. It gets really missed in all the obsession over gear, chops etc. He always plays interesting things.And now one of his protoge's, Luca Benedetti. There's a guy that calls himself El Twanguero (Diego Garcia) out of spanich market- love that guy. Paul Pigat can jazz his ass off, despite being known primarily as a rockabilly guy...like Setzer there's alot of jazz in WHAT he does.
As I'm typing this, I'm realizing that what I think I like is the jazz sensibility- to take something and make it your own. As they say in the Tour de France, Hors Categorie, beyond category. I've read some books on jazz (the concept, mindset, if you will), and as a musical art form, especially when played with others, it's pretty tough to beat... the creativity, spontaneity, the playing what you fell at that moment, the interaction with others affecting what you play... and I know I'll get lampooned for this, but I think Steve Vai- no jazz player AT ALL (self-admitted), plays music with that mindset, at least when he's creating it. The live shows probably aren't very spontaneous because it's more of a rock show, but on his creativity side, the taking music where is hasn't gone rating is pretty high.
But any love for Scott Henderson? Surely it's not a huge step over into the shark infested waters of fusion for a bit of Vibe Station, say?
I don't know Andy Timmons, except by reputation. Obviously a very versatile player....As for non-guitar jazz, I'd have to say much the same. I really dig Harry Connick (the piano player, not the singer)- he can play his ass off, it's just not what people will buy from him, unfortunately. But when I'm pulling out some jazz, it's usually Ben Webster, Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins, Nat Cole Trio (instrumentals, altho love his vocal stuff too). Or if I want to get happy it'll be Goodman or Miller, Louis Jordan, LOUIS ARMSTRONG.
A few for your listening pleasure:
...and Timmons, ripping with Mimi Fox
I'm thinking of what might float your boat that you haven't mentioned. I suppose by modern I mean contemporary players working in the jazz sphere, but of course that's a very loose and open field now. Obviously there's Peter Bernstein, featured in the video above.
Of course for mainstream vibes, there's Scott Hamilton and Harry Allen in the world of sax playing, and players who have a similar old school sensibility, on guitar Matt Munisteri, Chris Flory, James Chirillo, Gray Sargent and so on. If you want to hear someone nailing the 30s Django thing COLD, check out Duved Dunayevsky.
But what I think is more interesting is where the thing that attracts you to maybe pre-war jazz but in contemporary music. TBH most players now play A LOT OF NOTES. I remember hanging out with a friend, a very strict 1920's style clarinettist who basically only likes Alfonse Picout, Barney Bigard and, for some reason, 1980s John Scofield. We were listening to some virtuoso modern jazz and he turns to me and says 'why so many notes??? It's inane.'
Which is what Miles said to Stern, of course. I like Wayne Krantz, and he most goes SKRONK these days, although he is certainly a virtuoso player of lots of notes. But I also like people who play a lot of notes. Although it can get a bit much...
Also I was sad not to see Johnny Hodges in there ;-)Last edited by christianm77; 10-25-2019 at 03:11 PM.
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I definitely relate to this. I want to say to Stern: "where's the fire???" And it's likely by being raised (literally from birth) on 40s big band (my dad was in WWII). Melody melody MELODY!!! Swing! Pocket! Altho.... counter-intuitively, I also enjoy a little Vai and Malmsteen here and there. I "cut my teeth" on Van Halen, AC/DC, and all the 80s hard rock. That was my "wheelhouse". Originally Posted by christianm77
I listen to and can enjoy most types of music... it's easier to list what I DON'T like (rap, hip hop, "urban", I haven't gotten into "world" much yet). But rock, blues, jazz, early jazz, swing, jump blues, big band, classic rock, hard rock, pop, bluegrass, country, rockabilly, classical....
I did just, today, discover Mimi Fox. Loving her. But she is more of a traditionalist.
Oh, I listen to Duke! (and Count). I am familiar with Hodges, just haven't studied/listened to him in particular... yet. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Isn't she great? I first found out about Mimi Fox on Truefire where she has several online lessons. Also see Truefire for Sheryl Bailey, Frank Vignola, Fareed Haque, Sean McGowan and many more excellent jazz instructors. Originally Posted by ruger9
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My goto Duke music is the 8 cd Box Set of the Carnegie Hall Concerts. Originally Posted by ruger9
Doug
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Apologies... this thread kind of went from a GEAR thread to a PLAYER thread....
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No problem. Without Mike Stern the thread would’ve been just a normal rig rundown Originally Posted by ruger9
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no problem..(says the op)...i love when these threads take on a life of their own...the river flows Originally Posted by ruger9
cheers
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If only they all could.... Originally Posted by ruger9
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Yeah, I know what you mean. With time on the instrument comes wisdom... stop talking about the damn gear and just PLAY it! Originally Posted by christianm77
But it's hard, living in a golden age of gear... so much great stuff out there...
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