Les Paul or SG opinions?

[p1p]

Hi All,

I'm looking for opinions on some sort of affordable Les Paul or SG style guitar. Doesn't necessarily have to be a Gibson, and I won't consider an Epiphone based on past experiences.

I'm soon down to just one guitar (My Ibanez 2471 ), but could use a solid body to practice with late in the evening/early in the morn. Something quality as well though, that could be used as a substitute playing out. And no, not looking for a Tele ..

Thanks in advance!

[Thumpalumpacus]

If you go with Gibson's Studio/Faded offerings, shop carefully; they're notorious for shoddy fretwork, and I moved one last year for having a poorly-set neck.

You may want to look into Burny, Edwards, or other MiJ brands. LTD offers variations on each design that play well and are priced affordably.

[GNAPPI]

If you go with Gibson's Studio/Faded offerings, shop carefully; they're notorious for shoddy fretwork, and I moved one last year for having a poorly-set neck.

You may want to look into Burny, Edwards, or other MiJ brands. LTD offers variations on each design that play well and are priced affordably.

I bought one from a well known "Gibson body only" vendor on Ebay a couple of years back, I set it up quick with spare parts and the neck was unusable. I sent it back.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Have you considered something along the lines of a PRS S2 Singlecut? Or for even less, maybe a PRS SE, maybe a Bernie Marsden?

[p1p]

Have you considered something along the lines of a PRS S2 Singlecut? Or for even less, maybe a PRS SE, maybe a Bernie Marsden?

Never even played a PRS, sorry, but I'm assuming you recommend them? I used to live right by a shop that was full of PRS guitars, when I was only interested in archtops. Now I live overseas and far from a decent shop to try anything I haven't before.

I may be delusional in thinking I could get something decent for under a grand. I've bought and sold enough guitars at this price range to know better. Was hoping there's some sort of gem out there to be had? I'm in no way a guitar snob, but can't help comparing these cheaper guitars to the better ones I've had. It's more to do with wanting to pick the thing up and play.. a little inspiration sometimes helps. The closest I've come with solid bodies is a strat. I do love the strat, but at times I'm wanting a thicker humbucker type sound.

[ghostdncr]

I've owned an embarrassing number of Epiphones and can state without hesitation, there are stunning examples of craftsmanship out there as well as examples of highly-finished firewood bearing the Epi name. Some of the Japanese and Korean factories produce instruments very nearly on par with Gibson in their fit, finish, and performance. These seem to be the rare bird, but they do exist. I've played them and worked on them. The Epi LP's are produced by like 54 different factories throughout Asia but when you pick up one of the "Wednesday" guitars from one of the top-tier Korean or Japanese builders, you'll handle an instrument that's really nothing like an Epi as most of us consider them. Should you consider going down the rabbit hole of deciphering Epi serial numbers as regards factory codes, good luck and Godspeed. With that said, should you find an "F" Elite, an "FC", "S", or "T" prefix serial number, you may be in for a jaw-dropping surprise.

Somewhere in the mid-2000's Epi dropped the factory code letter-prefix from their serial number format. Anything made after that is a pick it up and play it affair for me, as none of the known numbers reflect a factory of any significance.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I bought one from a well known "Gibson body only" vendor on Ebay a couple of years back, I set it up quick with spare parts and the neck was unusable. I sent it back.

Yeah, I picked up a Faded SG a little over a year ago, seeing in the store that the action was high even with the bridge decked. I verified that the truss rod worked and figured I could fix it with a good setup. I was wrong; the neck was set too shallow. I got it to play well on the first seven frets, but the action was still too high beyond that. Sold it to a cowboy-chord guy and moved on.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Never even played a PRS, sorry, but I'm assuming you recommend them? I used to live right by a shop that was full of PRS guitars, when I was only interested in archtops. Now I live overseas and far from a decent shop to try anything I haven't before.

I may be delusional in thinking I could get something decent for under a grand. I've bought and sold enough guitars at this price range to know better. Was hoping there's some sort of gem out there to be had? I'm in no way a guitar snob, but can't help comparing these cheaper guitars to the better ones I've had. It's more to do with wanting to pick the thing up and play.. a little inspiration sometimes helps. The closest I've come with solid bodies is a strat. I do love the strat, but at times I'm wanting a thicker humbucker type sound.

Yes, I can recommend the lower priced PRS guitars. PRS seems to be very on top of QC in the SE line. They are Korean made and every one of them I’ve played has been at least a very, very good playing guitar. They are way more consistent than Epiphones.

[entresz]

If your not plugging in much it doesn't matter but the neck pickup of the SG will sound quite different to the neck pickup of a Les Paul. The SG neck pickup is a little closer to the bridge (there's actually room there for 24 frets) as opposed to the Les Paul which has it right next to the 22nd fret.

[Bach5G]

My guitar guru spoke highly of Tokai the other day.

I had a PRS Se 245 for a while. An excellent guitar.

[Greentone]

One of the best guitars I ever owned was a Gibson SG-Custom. It was a mid-60s example. The guitar was outstanding for ANY type of music.

Another guitar that I had around the house for several months, but didn't own, was a 90s Gibson SG-Custom owned by a buddy of mine. He parked it at my house for evaluation. Like my old one, it was light, responsive, extremely toneful, and easy to play.

I much preferred both of these guitars to the two Les Pauls (two P90 version and a Recording) that I had.

Maybe I just didn't have the right Les Paul...but I've played a LOT of Les Pauls in my day. I just like the SG more, in general.

(Of course, I like the ES-3X5 even better.)

[Thumpalumpacus]

Somewhere in the mid-2000's Epi dropped the factory code letter-prefix from their serial number format. Anything made after that is a pick it up and play it affair for me, as none of the known numbers reflect a factory of any significance.

Every guitar is a pick-up-and-play affair for me. If my hands, ears, and wallet don't like it, I don't buy it.

Yes, I can recommend the lower priced PRS guitars. PRS seems to be very on top of QC in the SE line. They are Korean made and every one of them I’ve played has been at least a very, very good playing guitar. They are way more consistent than Epiphones.

SEs have very good QC so far as I've played. I've never owned one, but I've played a bunch, and I find their necks consistent -- very 59ey, which I like -- and I've enjoyed every one I've played, unlike most every other in that price-range. Excellent bang-for-buck in SEs.

[dconeill]

The OP didn't define "affordable". That would have been useful. The answers to the question will vary quite a bit if "affordable" means "under US$500" or "under US$2000".

Consider the Hagstrom Swede (24.5 inch scale, i.e., not the Super Swede), around US$650.
Also the Ibanez ARZ200, around US$400. There are other Ibanez guitars that are similar.
Godin has several offerings that are Les Paul style.
Prestige makes some Les Paul style guitars, but I don't know the prices.
Just a few of the possibilities.

[Lobomov]

SGs are cheaper than LP, but I actually like them more.

The faded/worn/tribute/whatever series without bindings and glossy finish are kinda cheap in the stores, but on the used marked, you should be able to pick one up that is affordable

Good luck hunting

[p1p]

The OP didn't define "affordable". That would have been useful. The answers to the question will vary quite a bit if "affordable" means "under US$500" or "under US$2000".

Consider the Hagstrom Swede (24.5 inch scale, i.e., not the Super Swede), around US$650.
Also the Ibanez ARZ200, around US$400. There are other Ibanez guitars that are similar.
Godin has several offerings that are Les Paul style.
Prestige makes some Les Paul style guitars, but I don't know the prices.
Just a few of the possibilities.

Thanks, this is great, and I suppose I should have set a price. Probably between £400 and 800? So roughly $500-1000? Basically a guitar that I wouldn’t consider junk after a month of playing it. Like I said, I’m not a fan of epiphone, having owned two of them that I couldnt get to like. Necks felt sticky, plasticky, pickups were muddy. Felt like toy guitars to me, that LOOKED like Gibsons..

Anyone have experience with the newer Guilds?

[p1p]

https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/gibson-sg-50s-tribute-electric-guitar-2013-with-gibson-usa-case/1295762709

This looks interesting to me.. wasn’t considering p90s, but..

Also, new vs used?? I haven’t bought too many new guitars, but I’m now left with a strat which was new, and my archtop which was used. Most of the used guitars I picked up either developed problems or I never bonded with them enough.

Thanks again

[rpjazzguitar]

Is there any truth to the rumor that the SG model tends to have tuning stability problems?

I have heard that it is due to the double cut and a very long neck.

If it turns out that's not true, and tuning is not a problem, I'd look seriously at the SG because of the access to the upper frets. Of course, not everybody wants to play up there, but if you do, it may not be as easy on an LP.

[Lobomov]

Thanks, this is great, and I suppose I should have set a price. Probably between £400 and 800?

I've never been interested in les pauls, but with regards to SGs, you are basically free to buy whatever with that budget. The standard is currently out of your price range if you want it new, but once you hit October/november they usually drop to 1000€ new ... used standards go for slightly under 600£ in my neck of the woods that is Denmark.

[Al Br.]

I did not see it mentioned but there is a Canadian company which is building some very nice guitars and they have a LP style guitar. The company is Prestige Guitars. Have not heard anything bad, the reviews I've read have been all positive. Just something else to add to the consideration.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Is there any truth to the rumor that the SG model tends to have tuning stability problems?

I have heard that it is due to the double cut and a very long neck.

If it turns out that's not true, and tuning is not a problem, I'd look seriously at the SG because of the access to the upper frets. Of course, not everybody wants to play up there, but if you do, it may not be as easy on an LP.

That rumor is horseshit in my opinion. I've owned three SGs, two Gibson and one Epi. The Epi had the older 63-style flat neck-heel, both Gibsons had the longer neck-heel. All three kept tune fine.

[73Fender]

One option is an early 90s (with ebony board til 93) or later LP Studio. There is a long thread on the LP Forum about these and I stumbled on one on CL for $650 and all the love they get is well deserved. Gibson was on a mission back then to rebuild the brand, QC and materials were good. There is even some consensus that Murphy painted most or all of them. There are many posts out there from guys who regret selling them. There is another thread I came across on another forum by an ex Gibson employee aka Rastus who talked about this period and this model. My Wine Red 93 hangs with my CS LPs and my Heritage LP type very well and if was the only one I could keep I'd be fine. And the 50's carve, what ever it was, from that year is my favorite neck carve ever for a solid body electric. It's like the perfect moderate D. Of course there are decent Studios from every era. Due diligence of course.

[Duotone]

In I were you, I’d take a vintage Yamaha SG into consideration. The SBG2100 I have lends itself better for jazz than my Les Paul Traditional. The tone is more “polite” or “elegant “. And I think the body shape is pretty unique.

The models above the SG1000 can get pretty pricey though, depending on condition.

If you want a new guitar you might also have a look at Yamaha’s Revstar series.

[John A.]

Is there any truth to the rumor that the SG model tends to have tuning stability problems?

I have heard that it is due to the double cut and a very long neck.

If it turns out that's not true, and tuning is not a problem, I'd look seriously at the SG because of the access to the upper frets. Of course, not everybody wants to play up there, but if you do, it may not be as easy on an LP.

Having owned an early 70s SG and played many vintage SGs, I'd say it's not a rumor. The neck on many vintage SG's are basically whammy bars. There's considerable variation from year to year and from version to version of SG. But the wiggliness is mainly a combination of the way the neck is attached, neck, and of there being almost no neck heel. The thinness of the body is what drives this, not the neck length or cutaways, In some years and some variants of SG's the neck, attachment, and heel are beefed up a bit and the necks are more stable, though. I think the ones made post-Norlin are almost all beefier. Overall, SG's are tricky guitars -- they can be very neck heavy; some sound great and some don't; some play great and some are a mess. If I were looking for something in the LP family, I'd lean more in the LP Studio or LP Special/TV direction. I haven't tried one, but the ES LP Special looks pretty cool, and they seem to be quite cheap used.

John

[Stringswinger]

Having owned an early 70s SG and played many vintage SGs, I'd say it's not a rumor. The neck on many vintage SG's are basically whammy bars. There's considerable variation from year to year and from version to version of SG. But the wiggliness is mainly a combination of the way the neck is attached, neck, and of there being almost no neck heel. The thinness of the body is what drives this, not the neck length or cutaways, In some years and some variants of SG's the neck, attachment, and heel are beefed up a bit and the necks are more stable, though. I think the ones made post-Norlin are almost all beefier. Overall, SG's are tricky guitars -- they can be very neck heavy; some sound great and some don't; some play great and some are a mess. If I were looking for something in the LP family, I'd lean more in the LP Studio or LP Special/TV direction. I haven't tried one, but the ES LP Special looks pretty cool, and they seem to be quite cheap used.

John

I have owned two SG's, a 63 and a 73. Neither had tuning problems, but both were neck heavy.

Lesters sound great but the weight is not a good thing for those of us of a middle aged persuasion . I sold a Lester that I had for 15 years a few months ago. The 10 pound weight was just too much. I just bought a 2017 Les Paul Studio T from a vintage dealer. It is NOS that he got in a package from a music store that lost it's Gibson dealer status and they wanted to clear out their stock. I paid $879 including shipping (The vintage dealer decided that he just wanted to get his money out of these guitars after a few weeks of no takers at a profit). It should arrive later this week. 7 pounds 15 ounces. That should be fine. I like a solid body for outdoor gigs in the sun. I find tuning issues occur with hollowbodies in that circumstance. I have been using my Strat on those gigs, but I like having a short scale guitar available for those gigs as well. I think the new Lester will fit the bill. I also do not like using expensive guitars for outdoor gigs and the price tag on the Studio was right. The vintage dealer assured me that this Studio has no neck problems at all.

After I get the guitar and use it on a few gigs, I will do a NGD and report back.

Here is a picture of the incoming guitar:

[John A.]

I have owned two SG's, a 63 and a 73. Neither had tuning problems, but both were neck heavy.

(snip) ..I like a solid body for outdoor gigs in the sun. I find tuning issues occur with hollowbodies in that circumstance. I have been using my Strat on those gigs ...(snip)

Hey! You can't play jazz on a Strat! Don't you know that?! ;-)

After I get the guitar and use it on a few gigs, I will do a NGD and report back.

Here is a picture of the incoming guitar:

Nice!

John