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  1. #1

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    Hi,

    Would welcome any suggestions / critique on my intended pedals for my starter pedal board.

    Guitar: tele with a Lollar Charlie Christian in the neck
    Amp: DV Mark Little Jazz

    Playing:
    - Beginner
    - Only play at home
    - Like to play Jazz-blues (not interested in full-on-blues/rock/metal etc)
    - Favorite players: Grant Green, Kenny Burrell, Jim Hall, Joe Pass


    Currently I have:
    - EHX Nano 360 looper

    Intending to buy in this order:
    - EHX Turnip Greens (for OD and playing around with different reverb in addition to amp reverb)
    - EHX Freeze (for practicing improvising over chords)
    - MXR Carbon Copy (to play around with delay)
    - Boss GE-7 (to play around with EQ)
    - TC Electronic Sentry (to take away hum from Charlie Christian pickup)

    Many thanks, Simon

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I'd say you've got enough to keep you busy.

    But get a Rat, just for fun.

    BTW, if you're interested in a cheap analog delay, the Donner Yellow Fall is pretty great.
    Jay

    'boobadoobadoobaooababop!'

  4. #3

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    Check out the TC Electronic Qintessence harmonizer pedal. Lots of fun.

  5. #4

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    Or just plug into your amp and play? You know, like most jazz guitarists. Depends what kind of jazz you want to play, I guess. Any big influences?

  6. #5

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    It seems you've already got the most useful practice device, which would be the looper. The only effect that you might consider essential is one that very well might be contained within your amplifier: reverb.

  7. #6

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    Get a Boss Metal Zone

  8. #7

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    Have you tried the EHX Soul Food yet with your amp ( the OD in the Turnip Greens)? Overdrives don't always play nice with SS amps.

  9. #8

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    Looks good! Comments on most:
    - With the looper I’m not sure you need the freeze. If it’s just for practice something like the trio might be better.
    - I would get an optical compressor before most of those for tone.
    - Not sure you need EQ with guitar, amp and pedal controls. IME with EQ pedals you get them for a very specific use.
    - I prefer the Boss NS2, ISP Decimator or even the EHX Silencer to the Sentry. Some people swear by TC, I’m not one.
    - Turnip greens is a great idea but I would encourage you to split and get independent OD and reverb in case you want to upgrade/change one and not the other
    - The MXR CC is awesome but it’s an acquired taste. If you know that’s the one you want, perfect. For playing around I would get a delay with multiple modes like the DD7 then you can choose which mode you like best
    - I have a Soul Food and it’s a fine pedal but given your list of people and your amp I would go for an OD that is reminiscent of the tweed sound. Les Lius, Red Llama, Formula 5, Tweed 57. Or you could get a Tech21 Blonde (or Joyo American) and use it as an OD.
    - Also think about how you’ll power this. The reverb, freeze and looper will likely need isolated power and maybe also the delay depending on which on you pick.

    Have fun!



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  10. #9

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    My most used pedal is an overdrive pedal, often used at a low level where you can't hear an obvious overdrive sound. The overdrive is almost always on. My other pedals, almost always not on. Even on for chord playing, makes my Quilter (solid state) sound more tubey:

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  11. #10

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    I've had little success with OD in front of my Little Jazz - the bass always becomes very flubby - but you may have better luck by playing close atttention to the tone control on the D pedal and the lows on the Little Jazz. As I have other amps for OD sounds, I may have given up too soon on the LJ. However, the Joyo American with low gain certainly gives it a different character, most probably by reducing the mids in a way that the mid control on the Little Jazz, on its own, cannot.

    Good luck !
    Have no secrets, hear no lies.

  12. #11

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    The problem with pedals is that you can spend too much time fiddling with the pedals and simultaneously avoiding practice!
    Also, shopping for the "perfect" pedal set up is an endless task. I got into pedals a couple of years ago and wasted a fair amount of money and time on a bunch of stuff I rarely use. I mean I know that playing with some delay and fuzz can be lots of fun and all, but I'd put more energy into learning stuff on tele into the Little Jazz.

    Personally, I play more acoustic than electric so that's an even more bare-bones approach.

  13. #12

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    Yeah, fiddling with pedals, along with too much time on a particular guitar forum ran from somewhere in Belgium, can be a distraction from practice.

  14. #13

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    Favorite players: Grant Green, Kenny Burrell, Jim Hall, Joe Pass


    Don't need a pedal board. Get a good amp and plug straight in. The Little Jazz will probably be fine.

    What I play pedals wise for a modern/contemp/fusion gig, fairly small set up as far as it goes...

    Fender Tele/Gibson 175 or whatever....

    Jim Dunlop mini volume pedal
    Ibanez tubescreamer (old 90s plastic one that no-one likes.)
    Boss OC3 (great pedal)
    EHX Freeze (very cool but I need to swap out the switch at some point cos it's really noisy)
    TC Electronic Ditto Looper
    MXR Carbon Copy (yes this is a good pedal)

    Probably the next addition will be a clean boost.



  15. #14

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    So, nice tele, nice amp, likes Jim Hall, et al., has a looper to practice …. you need nothing else unless your new influences are Rosenwinkel, Moreno, Hekselman, et al.!!

    Just play, have fun, and find some local guys to play with!

  16. #15
    IMO, the worst thing a beginning player can do is get caught up in the effects/pedalboard game. Learn to play and get a good sound with just your guitar and amp first.

  17. #16

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    Rob MacKillop, simplified this, none of the
    greats used pedals, JP, JR, TF, BK ,Wes etc
    as far as I’m aware. A good quality amp
    Mambo, Henriksen , Evans,Fender , Polytone
    paired with a good Archtop is quite adequate
    for straight ahead Jazz /,Standards.

  18. #17

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    Well Jim Hall did use a Whammy Pedal IIRC later in his career.

  19. #18
    Can't agree there. I consider Scofield, Hall, Monder, Frisell, Kriesberg, Adam Rogers, Pat Martino and Pat Metheny "the greats" and they all used effects.

    But I agree that you should learn to play some before adding effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverfoxx View Post
    Rob MacKillop, simplified this, none of the
    greats used pedals, JP, JR, TF, BK ,Wes etc
    as far as I’m aware. A good quality amp
    Mambo, Henriksen , Evans,Fender , Polytone
    paired with a good Archtop is quite adequate
    for straight ahead Jazz /,Standards.

  20. #19
    Even Joe Pass used a wah pedal on a record though it wasn't done very well...

  21. #20

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    I agree fundamentally with Rob, but it also depends on the style you wish you develop. If the style heavily makes use of pedals, then they are part of the instrument and require practice. For example, using a freeze pedal to sustain, or a sampler to loop, or a cv controlled tremolo pedal for texture— these all require practice to incorporate them in your style. However, if you’re just getting started and/or your goal is to play straight jazz, then you probably don’t need them yet or ever. There’s a lot of stuff to practice that you will be distracted from if you dive straight in to pedals.

    The looper was a good choice, though.

  22. #21

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    And the tc sentry won’t remove your hum. You want an EHX Hum Debugger for that.

  23. #22

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    Many thanks for all your replies, they are appreciated.

    I have been (in the nicest possible way) bought back done to Earth and told for the most part, forget the distractions (pedals/books/forums et. al.) and practice. Thank you all for that. I think I probably needed to hear it (although I do recall my wife previously mentioning something similar about guitar books arriving from Amazon...).

    So, no pedals for a year and then reassess.... (and check jazzguitar.be forums only once per-week to avoid various guitar related acquisition syndromes).

    Cheers, Si

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jockster View Post
    Many thanks for all your replies, they are appreciated.

    I have been (in the nicest possible way) bought back done to Earth and told for the most part, forget the distractions (pedals/books/forums et. al.) and practice. Thank you all for that. I think I probably needed to hear it (although I do recall my wife previously mentioning something similar about guitar books arriving from Amazon...).

    So, no pedals for a year and then reassess.... (and check jazzguitar.be forums only once per-week to avoid various guitar related acquisition syndromes).

    Cheers, Si
    Focusing on practice is a good idea. Neglecting the single greatest source of jazz lore and instruction on the planet might merit a little more thought. Lessons, theory discussions, tips, tales, video performances, evidence anecdotal and otherwise, blue sky thinking, aspirational inspiration - jazzguitar.be has it all - for free! Keep the baby. Recycle the bathwater.
    Best regards, k

  25. #24

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    To be fair to myself, my comment was two-fold. Many jazz greats played without effects, which is why I suggest just plug and play. But I did go on to ask Simon what style he would like to play, who he listens to. If, in that case, he was a big fan of effects-laden music, then that's a world I know precious little about - so he should ignore my comment. But I see he's taking on board lots of comments here.

  26. #25

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    You should still get a Boss Metal Zone.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    You should still get a Boss Metal Zone.
    My Grandson likes the one I got him.
    Best regards, k

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by jockster View Post
    Many thanks for all your replies, they are appreciated.

    I have been (in the nicest possible way) bought back done to Earth and told for the most part, forget the distractions (pedals/books/forums et. al.) and practice. Thank you all for that. I think I probably needed to hear it (although I do recall my wife previously mentioning something similar about guitar books arriving from Amazon...).

    So, no pedals for a year and then reassess.... (and check jazzguitar.be forums only once per-week to avoid various guitar related acquisition syndromes).

    Cheers, Si
    Well... you can obviously do that. IMHO a healthy balance is always good. Sometimes I’ve had gear curiosity help me pick up the guitar or play 30 more minutes. Eg how would it sound if I played that song with delay?

    Same for lessons.

  29. #28

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    Don't necessarily be too quick to swear off getting any pedals. I think that getting a tuning pedal can be a smart move for a beginner. Also, something like a Zoom ms-70C cdr can be fun to have just to play around with. There is serious practice, and there is just noodling in front of the tv or whatever, so why not explore some new tones when doing the latter via a cheap but decent multi-effects unit? Whatever you decide to do, good luck with your studies.

  30. #29

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    If there's a part of you that's drawn to effects, then maybe you could invest a modest amount for something like this:

    Zoom G1on FX Processor at Gear4music.com

    - loads of built in effects, so you can try all the different types, and experiment with different combinations. As long as it doesn't become too big a distraction from practicing, I don't see why not. I do use effects with some bands I'm in - in the right context, they can be great, and it's good to know about these things.

  31. #30

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    My view of pedals may be a little different, but I'm not sure about that.

    I think the issue is finding your own voice. It's the sound of the guitar that most closely produces the sounds in your mind and allows you to express yourself most effectively.

    For some, that's an archtop straight into an amp.

    For others, it's something else.

    And, it may take a player years to find that voice, to evolve to it.

    If you were talking about how to play in a Beatles Tribute band, then perhaps someone could advise you on ways to create those specific sounds. But, how can anybody advise you on finding your own voice? So, people advise on how to create sounds commonly used by players who are widely acknowledged to be great.

    I use a Boss ME80 (and the 70 and 50 before that). It has all the usual stuff, including one thing you didn't mention but which I use constantly -- the volume pedal. In group situations I play with my foot on it.

    A few years ago, I spent an afternoon with my pedalboard searching for sounds, eventually creating a clean sound and three processed sounds. Those are the sounds I use. I picked them because they contribute to what I see as my sound.

    Other people might not hear much that's special, but that's not the real issue. For me, it's getting the sound in my mind to come out of the speaker.

  32. #31

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    Looper pedal is super useful for quality practice, you go the right one!

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Well Jim Hall did use a Whammy Pedal IIRC later in his career.
    Yeah, very few people knew about Hall's metal/shred period, after he found out he could sell more records by using a chorus pedal and jamming with Frisell and Metheny.
    He went out and bought a wig that gave him shoulder length hair, and started sitting in at CBGBs.
    Before you knew it, he had a pedal board consisting of:

    A Brain Annihilator 2
    An Earth Scorcher 7
    A Trump Planet Destroyer
    and of course, a Boss Metal Zone.

    Things finally came to a head when he started getting into a G.G. Allin thing at Coachella, and had to be escorted offstage, after violating their rules concerning the use of bodily fluids on stage.

    Who would've believed that this all started with a little experimentation with chorus pedal?

  34. #33

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    Completely unhindered by talent.

  35. #34

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    Looks like you've done your research. Don't listen to those who say you shouldn't get an OD pedal. If you're a beginner electric guitar player and your amp doesn't have a built in gain, you get an OD pedal not because "you need it" but because it's crazy not to have one A well matched OD pedal can do wonders to the sound of a solid state amp. Even if high gain settings wouldn't be as useful for the style of music you're going for, every now and then you'll want to play rock riffs or David Gilmour solos and what not. Not to mention the contribution light OD can make to hard-bop guitar.
    I would bring the amp to the guitar store (unless they already carry that model of course) and try the pedals on that amp. Soul food might work well though, it adds a natural tubey sweetness by boosting lower mids and compresses the bass a bit so the amp doesn't get fuzzy.
    Never used a freeze pedal, seems redundant since you have a looper (most important music gear after metronome). Also you don't want to get used to be spoon fed the chord tones by a freeze pedal, you want to pick them up from comped chords.
    Others you can probably do without at this stage.

  36. #35

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    The Freeze pedal does NOT the same functionality as a Loop. I have both.

    It's a pretty popular pedal among jazz players. The ability to layer sounds on sounds is pretty powerful.

    This is the sort of thing a lot of people do with it... Kurt is using a HOG, but the function he is using is basically the same as a Freeze pedal


  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    The Freeze pedal does NOT the same functionality as a Loop. I have both.

    It's a pretty popular pedal among jazz players. The ability to layer sounds on sounds is pretty powerful.

    This is the sort of thing a lot of people do with it... Kurt is using a HOG, but the function he is using is basically the same as a Freeze pedal

    I was thinking of it's application as a practice tool since OP said he is a beginner.
    But on a second thought may being "spoon fed" chord tones by freezing drones and playing over them may actually accelerate ear training initially (compared to looping comps).
    Cool video BTW. Though I have an old school preference for achieving pianistic complexity by working within the limitations of guitar.

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    I was thinking of it's application as a practice tool since OP said he is a beginner.
    But on a second thought may being "spoon fed" chord tones by freezing drones and playing over them may actually accelerate ear training initially (compared to looping comps).
    Cool video BTW. Though I have an old school preference for achieving pianistic complexity by working within the limitations of guitar.
    Me too actually, though Mr Hat can certainly smash that as well.

  39. #38

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    Listen to Mr Wampler


  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Listen to Mr Wampler

    Nice taste !
    Doesn't he play a Tele ?
    Make a jazz noise here

  41. #40

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    Freeze and delay are some of my favorite effects... but I agree with the other guys here, get your playing in order first. Maybe you can reward yourself with a pedal after you learn a couple new tunes?

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Listen to Mr Wampler

    What, is this supposed to impress people? Even Jim Hall had TEN Metal Zone pedals on his board- this doofus only has NINE Metal Zones!

  43. #42

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    But back to being serious .. just have fun and don't take jazz too seriously. It a genre where many great players just plugged directly into their amp, but if you want to play with pedal do so. Most important is to have fun

  44. #43

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    Update:

    OK so I did not take my own advice..... and am now the proud owner of

    Mojo Hand Mirrorball delay pedal
    (Mojo Hand FX Mirror Ball - Analog Delay w/ Modulation)

    EHX Freeze



    I have not had time to dive deep into setting's of both pedals yet but I am really, really liking the tone with a touch of delay.

    Now back to Autumn Leaves arpeggio's....

    Cheers, Simon

  45. #44

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    My bare-essential jazz pedals. TC Ditto Mini Looper, HOF Mini, Spark Mini Boost plugged into a vintage Polytone Mini Brute.

    First Jazz focused Pedal Board-p5240862-jpg
    Last edited by Kathmandu Cat; 05-26-2019 at 02:29 PM.

  46. #45

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    Sorry for the upside down pic but ive been working on putting together a small battery powered board. Used it last night for the first time last night and it worked great. Hotone Soul Press Vol/wah> MXR CC> One Control Persian blue reverb. all powered by a pedaltrain Volto. I have a Freeze and a Boss OC-3 i havent put on there yet. Might get a ditto looper. Also i heard they are making a MXR CC mini with bright switch!. which i might get.


  47. #46

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    I would get a looper for shure. Then a reverb, Delay, OD. get a reverb that will do many diffrent styles of reverb, spring, Plate, Hall. Get a looper that can save to different slots.

  48. #47

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    In the beginning, when I started my training, I used a similar model: Wampler Triple Wreck V2


  49. #48

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    TC Polytune. Might be all the pedalboard you need

  50. #49

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    I am rather dependent on a clean boost these days.

  51. #50

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    If you already have a looper you can practice playing over chords. I have always thought the Freeze is kind of wonky sounding. Not a fan. YMMV, of course.