The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tag2
    Interesting conversation.
    I just picked up a Citation. I played several years ago at Mandolin Brothers, a few LeGrands there and at the Music Zoo, owned a LeGrand and many Johnny Smiths including 2 first years and 70s as well. Also owned 3 Buscarinos and a Campalone Special. All these are fantastic guitars and it will come down to the individual guitar and player. I love the new Citation and it will not be going back after a 14 day trial period. My Legrand was tighter sounding I believe due to a thicker top carve. Same with all the Johnny Smiths save 1, that was odd in that the neck floated above the body.
    The Buscarinos were amazing in that "Newer" type of jazz guitar sound. Extremely delicate sounding and beautiful, but not as good if you picked harder or really dug in. The Citation sounds huge with a big bottom and very mellow top end. It's not real loud, but really sweet with no hard edges and a soft attack which I like acoustically. Very round and rich sounding. I have a Gibson Lee Rit L5 with a floating pup that is much smaller in size and sound but has similar very round, warm sound. In any case, all great guitars. I always wanted a Citation, and to my ear, it's on par acoustically with all the top smaller builders out there. I still make regular trips to Lark Street music, and between them and all my former visits and purchases at Mando, am familiar with the Benedettos, DAngelico...Aquistos etc etc. All great builders that made some fantastic instruments....and some clunkers. Gibson is no different, but the Citations I have played are all right up there with the best of them, and I'm not the biggest Gibson fan generally speaking. Great guitar!


    I'll beat one regular here to welcome you Tag, I think you will find that there are a lot of jazz players here unlike a few other forums I could mention! A lot of kindred spirits.


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    I think Mike Elliot was playing a Citation on this album. Album is from 1981 I believe.
    This link should proceed thru all the tracks. If not you get the idea.


    (an unknown female voice pops out occasionally..not sure how that occurred. I didn't post the album link)

    Short bio here;
    Mike Elliott (guitarist) - Wikipedia

    I did get to hear him once when he was a clinician for Gibson many decades ago. Great player.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by MtnCat
    I think Mike Elliot was playing a Citation on this album. Album is from 1981 I believe.
    This link should proceed thru all the tracks. If not you get the idea.


    (an unknown female voice pops out occasionally..not sure how that occurred. I didn't post the album link)

    Short bio here;
    Mike Elliott (guitarist) - Wikipedia

    I did get to hear him once when he was a clinician for Gibson many decades ago. Great player.

    Sounds very much like mine. Im loving it! Thanks for the link.

  5. #29

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    Would love to try a Citation, but they are quite rare. Can anyone describe the difference between a Citation and a Kalamazoo Award?

    Thanks,

    Len

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Len R
    Would love to try a Citation, but they are quite rare. Can anyone describe the difference between a Citation and a Kalamazoo Award?

    Thanks,

    Len
    At this point the game and level of guitar it really is all about the individual guitar itself. The differences can be better describe in guitars at are not the same size. So of instance an 18 vs 17 inch guitar. The depth the body has a bearing on the sound for sure. However you are talking about 2 of Gibson's most prized archtops and essentially they are same size. Certainly bracing would have much to do with it but I think there are no meaningful ways to describe the different between these 2 guitars. You just evaluate the guitar on it's own merit.

    It would be like trying to describe the different between a D'angelico Style A, Style B, or an Excel. All would be different just because they are not the same guitar. I don't think you will find a pattern. The one exception might be a Gibson Johnny Smith as these were attached at the neck block different to have the extension of fingerboard in contact with the top. This delivers a different sound but even that sometimes does not happen. Yet when comparing a Super 400 to an L5 then you will hear fairly big differences, The Super 400 will generally bit more in the bass and sometimes an L5 might be a bit snappier in sound. However it is possible for an L5 to be louder than any particular Super 400. On the whole if the guitar is bigger is should produce more volume. Just grab and Stromberg or old Epiphone Emperor they can produce some huge amount of sound, however they might not be the best of a certain style of chord melody.

    A friend of mine just bought a beautiful Citation and brought it over as I had just bought and L5. They sounded pretty different and cannot say which was better depends. For some things the L5 cut a real winner in the upper registers while the Citation seemed smoother in the bass and more mellow. The L5 was clearly louder and frankly I am just a pleased with my L5 has he was with the Citation.

    I have played Epiphones that I thought were really only good for pure rhythm they even sounded not so great for single line stuff. The Kalamazoo that I have played maybe 2 or 3 many years ago......well they are a memory and I forget, but nice.

  7. #31

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    . If we’ve learned anything here at this site it is all about personal preference . I mean what really floats YOUR boat.

    Mark, both the L5 and the Citation that you mention were from 2002, The L5 a Crimson custom shop one off with a thinner top and back -more like a 50s L5 acoustic - an exceptional piece especially once you put an Ebony bridge top on it.

    And that Citstion is an exceptional Zguitar that would also benefit greatly from you cutting a Ebony Bridge top - so it doesn’t quite so plinky sounding when you play it unplugged.

    Big

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crm114
    . If we’ve learned anything here at this site it is all about personal preference . I mean what really floats YOUR boat.

    Mark, both the L5 and the Citation that you mention were from 2002, The L5 a Crimson custom shop one off with a thinner top and back -more like a 50s L5 acoustic - an exceptional piece especially once you put an Ebony bridge top on it.

    And that Citstion is an exceptional Zguitar that would also benefit greatly from you cutting a Ebony Bridge top - so it doesn’t quite so plinky sounding when you play it unplugged.

    Big
    I carved a new ebony saddle for that Citation. It sounded better for sure just a bit smoother would and less metallic.

  9. #33

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    Mark that’s a really accurate description and that was the word I think I was trying to pin down is that where the tune O-Matic any really excellent archtops does sound a little metallic

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crm114
    Mark that’s a really accurate description and that was the word I think I was trying to pin down is that where the tune O-Matic any really excellent archtops does sound a little metallic
    BigMike? Took me a while...

  11. #35

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    Hey jabs yeah you know what man after months being here is CRM 114 I finally figured out that I needed to post who the fuck I am ha ha
    ?Big


    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
    BigMike? Took me a while...

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crm114
    Hey jabs yeah you know what man after months being here is CRM 114 I finally figured out that I needed to post who the fuck I am ha ha
    ?Big
    Glad to have you back, BigMike. I was worried about you.