25.5 Scale 24 Fret Guitar - Good For Jazz?

[LtKojak]

Can a 25.5 scale 24 fret guitar ever sound right for straight away jazz in the neck position?

In a nutshell, not really. The tone you're looking for is come mostly from big boxed, 20-fretters, max. 22, on 24,75" scale.

The location of the humbucker p'up for a 24-fretter is NOT the harmonic node associated with the kind of tone you're looking for.

And, if you're looking to get that kind of tone with a solidbody, ergonomic, 24-fretter headless guitar, you're asking for a miracle to happen, if you asked me.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I get it, I'm just telling you that I've had a guitar with these specs and no amount of "dialing out" can delete what is inherent with certain guitar design factors. Perhaps your experience is different.

Mine is. I sound like me no matter what I'm playing. Yes, a Strat sounds like a Strat, an SG sounds like an SG, but when I play them, they each sound like me. That's why I pick different guitars; their qualities amplify the feeling I'm trying to get across.

My jazz teacher played jazz on a 62 Tele. Freddie Powers played country, at times, on a Les Paul Custom. Ted Nugent played hard rock on a Byrdland. I play what's in my heart on whatever is in my hands at the moment, and the limitations of the instrument often inspire me to find new places in the landscape, where it works for me in the moment.

I'm nowhere near this guy in talent, but I take this as inspiration:

[cosmic gumbo]

I had Stubby McTool build me this FX pedal to get a dark tone from any guitar or rig...it's called the Wet Blanket...

[entresz]

I have no problems getting a good jazz sound from an all maple 24 fret Gibson L6-S , it's only 24 3/4 scale though. It's a slightly brighter sound than my Les Paul for example but still nice. Plus it has a Bigsby....

[Fusionshred]

It's true that a 25.5" scale length, 24 fret guitar will sound different from a 175 or an L5 or a Tele, etc. etc. Different. But it's not impossible to get a jazz tone from one, although it may not be your jazz tone.

Also need Jack Zucker to weigh in here as he recently commented that, with the right wood and pickups, achieving a great jazz neck pickup tone is far from impossible and that the notion that it is is just a fallacy. Scale and number of frets are two among several variables that contribute to tone.

No, my Ibanez RG will not sound exactly like a 175 no matter what I do. But you know what? I can play convincing and pleasing jazz tones on it. One has to hear, though, with an open mind (which probably means closed eyes).

Part of it is the way I touch the instrument. Part is that the neck dimensions make it easier to navigate, so I sound smoother. Part is the way I dial the guitar and amp. . .

Check this out as an example:

And especially THIS:

[medblues]

[Boston Joe]

Sounds a bit thin and treblely for my taste

I know perceptions differ, but that tone sounded great to me. "Thin" would not be a word that would come to mind.

[Lobomov]

And especially THIS:

Martin Miller makes that Suhr sound pretty Metheny .. but much of that sound is maybe just to turn the tone knob all the way down?

[customxke]

Here is a guy somehow making do with a neck PU closer to the bridge than your 25.5” scale and 24 fret guitar would have. Somehow the player manages a jazz sound.

Diana Krall - All or Nothing at All - Video Dailymotion

Around 1:45 the struggle for tone begins.

On my Byrdland ('57), the 24th fret harmonic is right over the pole pieces of the neck pickup.

[John A.]

I had Les Paul Studio DC for a long time. This guitar has 24 Frets, maple cap on chambered mahogany body, and two cutaways, sort of Gibson's attempt at a PRS. It had the 490R/498T pup combination found on various other Gibsons. The neck pup got _a_ jazz sound, but to my tastes not a particularly good one -- noticeably brighter and thinner than on otherwise similar 22 fret guitars I've played. It could not get the sort of "flute-y", fat, mid-rangey neck pup sound typical of LP's and Gibson semis (which I think sound excellent for jazz). OTOH, the bridge pup sound was great -- fat, complex, bluesbreaker-ish, as good as any LP I've played. Not a perfect test, but I really think the position necessitated by the extra frets (not the pup model or the other construction details) accounted for the tepid neck pup tone. I could and did play jazz with this guitar, but clean tones were never quite right with it. Honestly, my strat can yield a fatter neck pup sound. I've also compared otherwise similar 22 and 24 fret PRS's side by side, and I hear pretty much the same phenomenon. That's not to say it's impossible for _any_ 24 fret guitar to get a good jazz sound, but I think any 24-fret guitar's neck pup sound will be at least a little different from that of a 22 fret guitar, all else equal.

John

[BeBob]

I had Stubby McTool build me this FX pedal to get a dark tone from any guitar or rig...it's called the Wet Blanket...

Why go custom? All you need is a graphic EQ.

I know, it's heresy.

[Hammertone]

Because I have played a variety of 24-fret Jazzicas, New Presidents and Vice Presidents through a variety of Koch amps, I think the answer to the OP's question, "Can a 25.5 scale 24 fret guitar ever sound right for straight away jazz in the neck position?" is...yes.

[Jim Soloway]

Because I have played a variety of 24-fret Jazzicas, New Presidents and Vice Presidents through a variety of Koch amps, I think the answer to the OP's question, "Can a 25.5 scale 24 fret guitar ever sound right for straight away jazz in the neck position?" is...yes.

It should probably be noted that while the information didn't come out for a while, the OP had specific guitars in mind: the headless models from Kiesel. The scale length and number of frets are only two of many factors that produce or limit a guitar's tonal capabilities. While it's true that guitars like Hoffners are obviously tonally able jazz instruments, it's also true that the entire guitar has been engineered for that purpose. The same is definitely not true about the Kiesels for which jazz was barely even an after thought (unless you are after Alan Holdsworth tone). I've been eyeing the same guitars for quite a while and I have some serious concerns, at least for my little tonal corner of the jazz guitar world.

[Woody Sound]

Here is a guy somehow making do with a neck PU closer to the bridge than your 25.5” scale and 24 fret guitar would have. Somehow the player manages a jazz sound.

Diana Krall - All or Nothing at All - Video Dailymotion

Around 1:45 the struggle for tone begins.

Apples & oranges. Sort of. Yes the pickup is closer to the bridge than normal, but the scale makes the pickup placement proportionately similar. 12th f harmonic location, etc.