Julian Lage's Tweedy Tone

**Jehu** · 04-05-2018, 07:03 PM

Question for you tweedites out there: Is Julian Lage's tone on his recent albums (Modern Lore and Arclight) generally representative of the tweed sound? Or is it more specific to the vintage champ that he's using? Or is it idiosyncratic to the way he's using it?

Based on almost no experience, I've had it in my head that I would really like a 5e3 clone someday. But as much as I dig Lage's playing (and his blackguard tele), his sound on these albums is not really what I'm looking for. I am beginning to wonder whether I like the idea (and look!) of the tweed amps more than the actual sound.

I realise that it is a small amp and he's pushing it pretty hard, but is there a substantial, qualitative difference between the sound of the champ he's using versus a tweed Princeton or Deluxe? Or is that just the sound of tweed that I'm hearing?

**neatomic** · 04-05-2018, 07:12 PM

yes there is a difference..tweeds have some spunk in general...they are definitely smokey...but the champs size 3w emphasizes that even more...

larger tweeds power tubes/speaker size give them a bit more clean headroom...tho still with that tweed pre-amp rasp

btw, clapton used a tweed champ on the derek and the dominoes layla sessions!!....

cheers

ps- also remember when tweeds were out, fender guitar pickups were 5-6k output...relatively low...different (hotter) pickups will hit that circuit way differently...overdrive it..think neil young

**Spook410** · 04-05-2018, 08:53 PM

Julian Lage's Sounding Point and Worlds Fair are two all time for me. And I realize you can't keep on doing the same thing. Still, he lost me with the tele/tortured tweed sound on Arclight and Modern Lore. Just too many tracks I can't stand the tone on. Miss the Manzer and L5 though really the Tele is fine. Just wish he would get a twin and clean it up.

**vernon** · 04-05-2018, 09:38 PM

Just listened to half dozen tracks off Modern Lore... I really don’t mind the tweed tele tone, it just bends the music in a certain direction. Sounds like Bill Frisell meets Duke Levine on steroids. Kinda cool... I wouldn’t call it JAZZ, but it’s kinda cool.

**mr. beaumont** · 04-05-2018, 09:43 PM

Lage's current tone is CHAMP tone.

And if you don't like it, you're boring. And you smell

**El Fundo** · 04-05-2018, 10:04 PM

Seems like the perfect rig for his foray into rootsy Americana. A Tele pushing a tweed Champ. Can’t get more American than that! I love everything Julian does. A real trailblazer.

**neatomic** · 04-05-2018, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Lage's current tone is CHAMP tone.

And if you don't like it, you're boring. And you smell

hahaha

cheers

**Jehu** · 04-06-2018, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by neatomic

yes there is a difference..tweeds have some spunk in general...they are definitely smokey...but the champs size 3w emphasizes that even more...

larger tweeds power tubes/speaker size give them a bit more clean headroom...tho still with that tweed pre-amp rasp

Thanks, neatomic... so you're saying there is some hope for my 5e3 dream yet? Phew... I was worried I was going to have to be content with my current gear!

**Jehu** · 04-06-2018, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Lage's current tone is CHAMP tone.

And if you don't like it, you're boring. And you smell

This looks like another vote for a distinctively Champ tone, not necessarily representative of the tweed family as a whole.

And for the record, I do dig what Lage has going on these days, it seems to be working for him... but it's not necessarily the sound I would want for my own playing.

Doesn't mean I'm not smelly and boring, though!

**Frank67** · 04-06-2018, 02:17 AM

I dig these two recent CD‘s from Julian Lage. His playing is awesome and never stops being interesting. It is groovy and yet he often does unexpected things. I find him masterful in playing the tension and release game. I also like his tone and how he controls the dirt with dynamics and the volume knob. I think it sounds distinctly different in an interesting way. I guess he is also playing on the bridge pickup quite a bit but with the tone rolled far down - am I right? In a longer perspective a bit more variety in the tone might be nice, but I feel the Tele thing is really working for him.

**docsteve** · 04-06-2018, 06:36 AM

I saw him live a few weeks ago. Whatever the amp was, it was a Fender covered with black tolex, and bigger than a Champ IMHO.

I think he uses the bridge pickup almost exclusively.

**mad dog** · 04-06-2018, 10:24 AM

That's a tweed tone. One of many. There isn't just one. When I play my tele through a 1x15 tweed deluxe type (L'il Dawg Dlux) or tweed bassman, neither one sounds much like a tweed champ. Some similarities, more differences. It's a bit like generalizing about blackface fenders. Does a BF vibrochamp - or princeton reverb - sound that much like a BF super reverb?
MD

**christianm77** · 04-06-2018, 11:37 AM

I think at the Pizza Express he was using maybe a Fender Deluxe with a drive pedal? Perhaps David B or 55bar might remember that night better than me?

**D.G.** · 04-06-2018, 04:59 PM

I asked Julian about a month ago on a live FB broadcast about his gear and he was using a custom built vintage style Tele, BF Princeton clone, and a JHS Morning Glory overdrive. He sounded pretty much the same as through his Tweed Champ. That boy's got magic fingers!

**christianm77** · 04-06-2018, 06:11 PM

Yes! Thanks for the info.

**christianm77** · 04-06-2018, 06:12 PM

The touring tele is danocaster afaik

**D.G.** · 04-06-2018, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

The touring tele is danocaster afaik

I'm pretty sure the one he was playing in that performance was not a Danocaster, which is not to say he isn't touring with one. He did say he just happened to have all his favorite gear at that particular session!

Or maybe it's the name of the pickups I'm tripping over, hmmm...

**D'Aquisto Fan** · 04-06-2018, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

The touring tele is danocaster afaik

I'm pretty certain Julian is recording and touring with his Nachocaster.

**Cunamara** · 04-06-2018, 09:32 PM

The Champ doesn't sound like my 5E3, although that's a Mission Amps version and doesn't sound exactly like a Fender. Cannabis Rex speaker for one thing, and a coupla mods for another. The 5E3 has more bass than the Champ, for one thing. Less throaty, breakup at louder volume, and the magic of the interactive controls and inputs.

**radiofm74** · 04-08-2018, 03:50 PM

Even on Arclight he recorded with various tweed amps, including a Pro which is considerably bigger. But the main point already made is that it's a tele (bridge pickup mostly) through a champ. Both sides of the equation matter. When I play my DeArmond through my tweed champ clone, and I am not pushing it beyond 7-8 with the pickup volume halfway, it does not sound remotely like that. It's an old school swing sound (which I love). I will want a bigger tweed in due time, but this is already glorious by itself so if I were you I would not discard a champ before trying it out with your guitar to see if it's what you look for.

More generally extrapolating tweed tone in jazz from Lage's tone (which I like BTW) is wrong IMHO.

**Jehu** · 04-08-2018, 08:16 PM

Is there an identifiable tweed family sound? Is anyone able to post clips of more generally representative tweed tones contrasted with, say, blackface?

Thanks again, folks... good info.