Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Posts 101 to 150 of 236
  1. #101

    User Info Menu

    I agree with DB, Bireli's tone is great, and Bireli's playing, as always, is awesome.
    My favorite guitar sound, however, is the Super 400.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

    User Info Menu

















    Danny W.

  4. #103

    User Info Menu

    This thread has gotten hilarious. For what it's worth, in the video I am playing through a little solid state Roland amp of some sort. I do have the tone knob way down because I didn't like the sound on that particular rig when turned up. It's making the best music with what you have in the moment. That is the essence of jazz right? There are so many factors that go into one's sound.

    As I live in Beijing and don't drive a car, I normally don't bring an amp to the gig and usually am happy to play whatever the club has if there is an amp at all. Otherwise my Clarus head and RE speaker + the L5 is a much better combination if I want to lug around.

    I'll post another soon when I play at Blue Note in a couple weeks. They have a well maintained Fender twin that screams with this guitar, big difference in sound Is it better? Worse? It's all in the ear of the beholder in the end anyway. Happy picking everybody!
    Doug Martin
    www.dougmartinguitar.com

    "Live life and play music like it's your last day on earth. One day you'll be right" - Russel Malone

  5. #104

    User Info Menu

    Doug,

    These Gibson threads get a bit crazy, but this is a very collegial forum. Max405 (Joe D.) just wanted to share his joy that Patrick's L-5 was in good hands. IMO, it is, just as my Favino is in the same good hands.

    Here is a picture from a sound check for a concert that Doug and I did about nine and a half years ago with Jazz guitar virtuoso Mimi Fox. Doug and I were both playing Favino guitars. I sold my Favino to Doug a few years later:

    the Gibson L5 - the best Jazz guitar ever made-img_3036-jpg
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  6. #105

    User Info Menu

    Awesome Marc! I had a photo of Mimi and I but not one of the entire band. Now I do!! I am grateful to guys like you and Joe who are willing to let these fine guitars go to good homes where they're are cherished but also out there in the world making music. Man that photo takes me back.

    As others can see Marc and I go way back and we like to keep ourselves in good company 2008 I believe. Can you believe ten years has gone by that fast?!
    Doug Martin
    www.dougmartinguitar.com

    "Live life and play music like it's your last day on earth. One day you'll be right" - Russel Malone

  7. #106

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Gitpicker View Post
    This thread has gotten hilarious. For what it's worth, in the video I am playing through a little solid state Roland amp of some sort. I do have the tone knob way down because I didn't like the sound on that particular rig when turned up. It's making the best music with what you have in the moment. That is the essence of jazz right? There are so many factors that go into one's sound.

    As I live in Beijing and don't drive a car, I normally don't bring an amp to the gig and usually am happy to play whatever the club has if there is an amp at all. Otherwise my Clarus head and RE speaker + the L5 is a much better combination if I want to lug around.

    I'll post another soon when I play at Blue Note in a couple weeks. They have a well maintained Fender twin that screams with this guitar, big difference in sound Is it better? Worse? It's all in the ear of the beholder in the end anyway. Happy picking everybody!
    Blue Note in Beijing? Looking forward to the next post, thanks in advance.
    -----------------------------------

    "The instrument keeps me humble. Sometimes I pick it up and it seems to say, "No, you can't play today." I keep at it anyway, though." Jim Hall

  8. #107
    Doug and Marco,
    i don’t know how everyone else feels but I want tell you my opinion.
    We are blessed to have the 2 of you here, sharing your opinions and experiences with us.
    Our very own, gracing the stages with legends like Mimi, Coryell, Oberg. If that’s not “real deal” I don’t know what is.
    i am sure many of you have had similar experiences to this and I take nothing away from you. But I am honored to know you guys. It’s sort of like being a scientist and hanging out with Albert Einstein or Enrico Fermi (sorry, I had to throw a Paisano in there, cuz you know Doug is a fellow olive picker (thanks PTchris)..).
    thanks for keeping this post high spirited.
    Joe D

  9. #108

    User Info Menu

    Ten years? Damn Doug, time sure flies when you are having fun playing jazz. Those shows with Mimi were like, 2000 gigs ago for me, but still stand out. She has monster chops.

    JD, thanks for the kind words. And don't let some of the negativity around here get you down. Like most internet forums, we are largely populated by aging men who have too much time on their hands. And from the tenor of some posters, it seems like a laxative might be somewhat helpful from time to time.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  10. #109

    User Info Menu

    JD, thanks for the kind words. And don't let some of the negativity around here get you down. Like most internet forums, we are largely populated by aging men who have too much time on their hands. And from the tenor of some posters, it seems like a laxative might be somewhat helpful from time to time. [/QUOTE]


    Well said Marco

  11. #110

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by QAman View Post
    JD, thanks for the kind words. And don't let some of the negativity around here get you down. Like most internet forums, we are largely populated by aging men who have too much time on their hands. And from the tenor of some posters, it seems like a laxative might be somewhat helpful from time to time.
    and switching to decaf can be a good thing too!

  12. #111

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger View Post
    Ten years? Damn Doug, time sure flies when you are having fun playing jazz. Those shows with Mimi were like, 2000 gigs ago for me, but still stand out. She has monster chops.

    JD, thanks for the kind words. And don't let some of the negativity around here get you down. Like most internet forums, we are largely populated by aging men who have too much time on their hands. And from the tenor of some posters, it seems like a laxative might be somewhat helpful from time to time.
    I think a verbal laxative is what causes some of this.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  13. #112

    User Info Menu

    Personally, I like to look at them but not play them. There are some things in life, from a design standpoint, that approach perfection: the Gibson L-5 (and it's iterations), Colt Peacemaker, Fender Telecaster, 1962 Corvette, 1911 Colt .45 ACP, and a few others. I've played a lot of L-5's over the years and just never played one that was comfortable to me and it seemed like they were all unresponsive. I owned a JS for awhile that was the same way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking them and those who love them - they're just not for me.

  14. #113

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Ellis View Post
    Personally, I like to look at them but not play them. There are some things in life, from a design standpoint, that approach perfection: the Gibson L-5 (and it's iterations), Colt Peacemaker, Fender Telecaster, 1962 Corvette, 1911 Colt .45 ACP, and a few others. I've played a lot of L-5's over the years and just never played one that was comfortable to me and it seemed like they were all unresponsive. I owned a JS for awhile that was the same way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking them and those who love them - they're just not for me.
    Guitars, guns and muscle cars. How may gals would have a design perfection list with that grouping? That is some testosterone laden thinking and I should know, add a 1949 Harley-Davidson Hydra-glide to that list and I am on board.

    But when it comes to the Gibson L-5, the question can become; which L-5 are we even talking about? Acoustic or electric? And even then, so many variations. With the Acoustic there is the 16 inch, the 17 inch, the x braced, the parallel braced, the non cut, the cutaway, the short scale, the long scale. With the electric there is the one pickup, the two pickup, the alnico, the humbucker, the laminated back, the carved back.

    The best jazz guitar ever is the one that suits the particular jazz guitarist and inspires his/her playing to the fullest. Period. The 'best" is all about opinion and we each formulate our own opinions.

    But in the early days of jazz, when the guitar was making it's voice, it was the Loar designed L-5 that set the standard. That is no opinion, that is a fact. As jazz guitarists, we should all honor that part of the history of our craft. and when a fine jazz guitarist chooses a Gibson L-5 (of any sort) to practice his/her craft, it is a moment where we should all smile and say "bravo". Our tradition continues, which is a very good thing.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  15. #114

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Skip Ellis View Post
    Personally, I like to look at them but not play them. There are some things in life, from a design standpoint, that approach perfection: the Gibson L-5 (and it's iterations), Colt Peacemaker, Fender Telecaster, 1962 Corvette, 1911 Colt .45 ACP, and a few others. I've played a lot of L-5's over the years and just never played one that was comfortable to me and it seemed like they were all unresponsive. I owned a JS for awhile that was the same way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking them and those who love them - they're just not for me.

    Just curious Skip - what do you prefer?

    I also think L5s look cool but prefer a 3" depth. OTOH - Johnny Smith types do work for me.

  16. #115

    User Info Menu

    Muscle cars and Harley’s as perfect design? Well they are put on the same category as the Gibson L5 - Awesome but impractical.

    Americans don’t need things that go around corners of course. Or fuel efficiency haha.

    I have to say driving in the states is a different experience to Europe. I found it very enjoyable.... Which is just as well really!

  17. #116

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    Just curious Skip - what do you prefer?

    I also think L5s look cool but prefer a 3" depth. OTOH - Johnny Smith types do work for me.
    I'm a Tele guy all the way and have been since I got a '68 in 1971. Sturdy, simple to operate, modify-able (is that a word?) and sound as good as whatever amp you play them through. I've been building my own since the 80's so, if I get a new idea in my head, I just go to the lumber yard and knock one out in a couple days. Surprisingly, the best sounding one (the one I play now) is made out of a 2x8 from Home Depot with a fancy maple cap; Bill Lawrence Keystone in the bridge and Duncan Alnico II in the neck. The one constant has been an old Allparts neck that I bought from Ebay back in the 80's for $75 - it's the closest to my '68 I've ever found and I'm really used to it. Note: that's an old pic - I had a CC in it at the time but went back to the Duncan.

    Best L-5 I ever played was at the Orlando guitar show many years ago - it was completely acoustic and was, probably the best sounding rhythm guitar I've ever heard. Most of the L-5 necks I've played (including that one) have been huge to me, though.
    the Gibson L5 - the best Jazz guitar ever made-mytele1-jpg

  18. #117

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Muscle cars and Harley’s as perfect design? Well they are put on the same category as the Gibson L5 - Awesome but impractical.

    Americans don’t need things that go around corners of course. Or fuel efficiency haha.

    I have to say driving in the states is a different experience to Europe. I found it very enjoyable.... Which is just as well really!
    Practical? What is practical about jazz guitar? You spend 20 years woodshedding the stuff, spend 5 grand on a guitar that feeds back like a banshee at volume and then drive 50 miles to play a gig for $75.

    Practicality and jazz guitar may well be mutually exclusive.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  19. #118

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Muscle cars and Harley’s as perfect design? Well they are put on the same category as the Gibson L5 - Awesome but impractical.

    Americans don’t need things that go around corners of course. Or fuel efficiency haha.

    I have to say driving in the states is a different experience to Europe. I found it very enjoyable.... Which is just as well really!
    How is an L5 not practical? When you look at the definition of that word every part of it fits the L5. You don’t have to fiddle with the sound because it is dialed in immediately and is an iconic sound that people expect and appreciate. It is the perfect size to play comfortably while seated. The neck on mine is my favorite neck of any guitar I’ve played. I don’t see anything not practical about it unless we are talking price but because of just how practical it is I think it’s worth it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  20. #119

    User Info Menu

    To me, it's impractical because: a it's VERY expensive (at least in my world) and b I could never take it to some of the dives I play in and c 99.99% of the audiences would not know the difference between a homemade Telecaster (mine) and the nicest L-5 on the planet - other musicians might but I don't play to the small percentage of musicians who may show up - it's the drinkers and dancers I'm concerned with. However they are pretty and an ego booster for sure. I'd much rather play something that I'm comfortable with and that sounds good TO ME than lust after something unusable TO ME just because it happens to be someones else's holy grail. Yes, L-5s are very pretty and excellent examples of the luthier's art but utterly impractical for MY purposes. It's all in where you're coming from and how you look at it.

    I played an outdoor surf gig at the Don Garlits Drag Racing Museum last Saturday - I don't think an L-5 would have been practical at all but my homemade Tele with a Strat tremolo worked just fine and I got lots of very nice compliments. Again, it's what works for the individual.

  21. #120

    User Info Menu

    I have never tried an L5, so i did not comment on whether or not it is the best guitar for jazz.
    Joe D has played an L5 and as such, in his opinion, thinks it is the best git for jazz, his opinion, cannot take that away from him, he loved the sound the guy on the video got from the L5 and in Joe,s mind that is the way a jazz git should sound, nothing wrong with that, that is the sound Joe likes.
    A few people have said they did not totally like the sound in the video, again nothing wrong with that.
    We all have an idea in our own heads of what a great jazz guitar sound should be, a lot of guys want the traditional Gibson archtop sound of the greats, wes, pass etc, nothing wrong with that.
    For what it,s worth, i liked the playing in the video, but i personally would not and do not try to get that tone from my own playing, again my own preference, the guy in the vid is a pro, i am a novice who plays with fingers, different style, attack etc.
    In my opinion, the best sounding jazz git is the Vanden that Martin Taylor let me have a go on, but again, i have not tried an L5.
    John.

  22. #121

    User Info Menu

    I don’t think you can always judge these things from some live video clip on YouTube or something. Under ideal studio recording conditions it might sound a lot different. Even in the room at that gig it probably sounded different from what the video device captured.

  23. #122

    User Info Menu

    The best sounding archtop I ever heard, acoustically, was Sid Margolies' late 30's blond L-5.

    So resonant, it sounded like reverb.

  24. #123

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger View Post
    Practical? What is practical about jazz guitar? You spend 20 years woodshedding the stuff, spend 5 grand on a guitar that feeds back like a banshee at volume and then drive 50 miles to play a gig for $75.

    Practicality and jazz guitar may well be mutually exclusive.
    This is not an argument I am going to be able to refute?

    But is it awesome like a Harley cruising down the freeway in Nevada?

    Well it is to me.

  25. #124

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rio View Post
    How is an L5 not practical? When you look at the definition of that word every part of it fits the L5. You don’t have to fiddle with the sound because it is dialed in immediately and is an iconic sound that people expect and appreciate. It is the perfect size to play comfortably while seated. The neck on mine is my favorite neck of any guitar I’ve played. I don’t see anything not practical about it unless we are talking price but because of just how practical it is I think it’s worth it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Keep stuffing them f holes with rags bro.

    Also, L5s with a bridge pickup, loooooooooolllllllllllll

    175 for ever

  26. #125

    User Info Menu

    The 175 is the best jazz guitar*

    *until I get an L5

    Seriously - BOTH. I can’t imagine a better ensemble jazz box than the 175, but the L5 is the trio and duo box par excellence....

  27. #126

    User Info Menu

    L5 is a nice guitar. But the scale is too long. And that extra pickup would be annoying...

  28. #127

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Max405 View Post
    Dougie,
    Only 9 posts? Come on bro you cant be that busy being a professional Jazz musician.. You need to contribute more. We need you here. Show the rest of the world what a great dude you are.


    Hi Joe! Ya I don't get on the forum so much. I will have to get on more often. Man you're too kind! Actually I really enjoy getting on here and seeing this great community and your own solo videos are just fantastic!

    Ya you can put that guitar in the hands of ten different players and it will sound different with every person because SO MUCH of our sound is in the hands of the player, BUT at the same time it will always sound like an L5. Gotta love that!
    Doug Martin, your timing could not be more spot on...you're so in the pocket. You're one superb player man...you should have your own band!
    Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 03-17-2018 at 09:10 PM.
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  29. #128

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ View Post
    Wes Tone... as a teen my folks joined the Columbia Record Club and we got Dave Brubeck's Take Five album - that was jazz to me until January of 1969... I was in the 2nd Armored Division as a computer operator and the entire Army did this mass reorganization of lower rank non-combat soldiers into combat units, 'Nam and Berlin needed more combat units on alert... So all of a sudden I'm in a armored battalion... My new foot locker had some stuff the previous guy had left behind (bound for 'Nam). Among the possessions Wes Montgomery's Tequila on cassette... God Dang boys that music sure changed my life... That to me is Wes Tone... I spent many lonely nights with my little PX special boom box listening to Wes...

    A great story BM! One of your top 5 in my book. So I take it you dodged a bullet, pun intended, and were never shipped out to 'Nam? Talk about hitting the lottery! Army personnel peaked to 550,000 in 1969, and the Battle of Hamburger Hill occurred in May 1969 were tough times to be in 'Nam!

    In 1964 I got hipped to Wes via my Dad constantly spinning LP's on a Garrard record player. He was a big fan of Wes and Lou Donaldson. I can still hear the sounds of Tequila, California Dreamin', Goin' Out Of My Head, in my ears. Where'd the time go!
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  30. #129

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by guido5 View Post
    L5 is a nice guitar. But the scale is too long. And that extra pickup would be annoying...
    Funny you mention that, back when I was a dumb kid in college I had a Tal and always bitched about the scale length. Fast forward like 20 years and now I don’t like the shorter scale after getting an L5 after having specifically targeted shorter scale guitars since college. I wish I still had that Tal too. But really it’s just personal preference and mine is that I can set up the strings lower on a 25.5 neck of the frets are exactly the same due to the higher tension. The longer scale feels better even though I don’t have super long fingers and my hand has stretched over the years anyways. To each their own though, lots of guys really like the shorter scale and more power to them.

    The extra pickup though is an often overlooked advantage because people think “well I never use that pickup”. The guitar feeds back more with only a neck pickup, no disputing that since the top resonates more with just the one pickup. It also changes the sound of the guitar (take the Wes L5 vs. L5 CES as an example). I’m very glad I have two pickups because I like that sound, even though I use the neck pickup the majority of the time, but the feedback reduction is huge for me.

    Replying to the practical guitar thing here without quoting it but if you are afraid to take a guitar somewhere then I agree that isn’t practical. That didn’t occur to me because I take it anywhere unless I am in hot direct sunlight. It was played a lot before I got it and was nothing near mint being 48 years old and I have played it a lot since getting it and added a lot more marks to the guitar since. I bought it to play it though and will take it to gross bars or the beach or whatever as long as there aren’t temperature concerns in direct sunlight.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  31. #130

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by medblues View Post
    Blue Note in Beijing? Looking forward to the next post, thanks in advance.

    That's right Medblues! About a year and a half ago they opened Blue Note here. I think it opened not long after the one they opened in Honolulu as well. And if you can believe it, it's basically right next to Tiananmen Square in a compound that used to serve as the grounds for the first US embassy in China if I am not mistaken.
    Doug Martin
    www.dougmartinguitar.com

    "Live life and play music like it's your last day on earth. One day you'll be right" - Russel Malone

  32. #131

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    Doug Martin, your timing could not be more spot on...you're so in the pocket. You're one superb player man...you should have your own band!
    Wow thank you for the kind words! I play in a few different projects here in Beijing. One is a quintet where we play a lot of hard bop, Jazz Messengers arrangements, which is nice with trumpet and tenor doing a lot of the melodic interplay, another group is a gypsy swing band, How Club of Beijing, another is the quartet in the video in the original post, and I play in another group let by a woman from Quebec playing mostly French chanson. Occasionally if there's time I get a drummer and bass player and do guitar trio stuff but normally I'm pretty busy out here. I've been in China for several years, it's exciting, it also drives me mad, but there's a lot to be said for living someplace where you can also play heaps of gigs.

    I guess with all the exports from China to the US, I'm doing my best to "import" something from the US to China!
    Doug Martin
    www.dougmartinguitar.com

    "Live life and play music like it's your last day on earth. One day you'll be right" - Russel Malone

  33. #132

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper View Post
    I take it one can still state an opinion here that is different? Or is that not possible anymore? The clique-ishness here I begin to find worrying. It's soooooo easy to see who's in it and who's not.

    Anyway, I listened to the clip and was kind of surprised I did not like the sound much. Too muffled. The sound knob was probably rolled off and I do not understand it when you try to make your L5 sound like a darker guitar.

    I do not think the L5 is the best jazz guitar either. Not even close. This is my opinion and nothing to worry about. It should not piss you off. I just think laminates fit me better.

    Here's an L5 sound that I do like by the way:



    Remember, this is NOT an attack. Just an opinion, like the OPs.

    DB
    This sound reminds me of Wes's first album on Riverside label (Dynamic New Sound). On that album Wes used an L-7 loaned to him by Kenny Burrell. I like Both tones. I think the video you posted is closer to what I like to hear for myself when I play...more acoustic, less electric. Hard to get sometimes, depending on instrumentation of the ensemble, room, and rig...But the power of an L-5 tends to get you through the mix either with "pop" or cut.
    Last edited by jazzjames; 03-18-2018 at 03:10 AM.

  34. #133

    User Info Menu

    Bireli sounds great on that WESMO...
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  35. #134

    User Info Menu

    One of my favorites by Wes:


  36. #135

    User Info Menu

    I'm an L5 fan ...finally brought one home a few years ago ... and I'm hoping to keep it till the end

    I love both the Wes and the CES configuration

    That said ... Push comes to shove I may have to pick the Super 400 over the L5 for my personal favorite


    But IMHO the L5 has become the modern standard ... mainly due to Wes Montgomery and a few other stars playing L5s


    The L5 may not be for you, but if you like something else better it's probably because for you ... it's better than an L5

  37. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchbopper View Post
    I take it one can still state an opinion here that is different? Or is that not possible anymore? The clique-ishness here I begin to find worrying. It's soooooo easy to see who's in it and who's not.

    Anyway, I listened to the clip and was kind of surprised I did not like the sound much. Too muffled. The sound knob was probably rolled off and I do not understand it when you try to make your L5 sound like a darker guitar.

    I do not think the L5 is the best jazz guitar either. Not even close. This is my opinion and nothing to worry about. It should not piss you off. I just think laminates fit me better.

    Here's an L5 sound that I do like by the way:



    Remember, this is NOT an attack. Just an opinion, like the OPs.

    DB
    Hey DB,
    Yeah you are right about the cliques. There are a couple. I am proud to be a part of the one who respects one another and allows ANYONE to join in, the only pre-requisite is that we all be nice to one another. There 1,000's members in this clique who fit that description. There are alot of talented and knowledgeable people here who do it right.
    When I 1st listened to the video, it was on my iPad. No headphones. When I put on my headphones, I heard exactly what you heard. Tone rolled off. It still didn't bother me. But, I could see how that would not appeal to everyone. Just like I am not fan of the Pat Metheny sound. But Doug played it superbly. And the tone roll off did not effect his guitars ability to cut through and be heard clearly, every note. He could play a piece of dog shit with guitar strings sticking out of it and it would sound great.
    Sorry if you thought being honest would piss me off. I guess a couple of my past reactions have given you that impression. I like nice people. Please make no mistake about it.
    Thanks, Joe DeNisco

    Joe D

  38. #137

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Keep stuffing them f holes with rags bro.

    Also, L5s with a bridge pickup, loooooooooolllllllllllll

    175 for ever
    I don’t stuff or cover the f holes and never have feedback issues. My PM100 feeds back more and it is a laminate, you know, that guitar that sounds exactly like a 175. Because it doesn’t have a bridge pickup which makes it much more resonant.

    If you do have experience with an L5 and have feedback problems then I suggest you get intimately familiar with amp placement and where you stand/sit compared to where the other instruments amps and speakers are. I have had feedback issues with my Eastman (thin carved top and a floater, so it makes sense why) and the PM100 I can control but it is very sensitive. The L5 is actually a guitar with which I never have feedback issues though. Really the lack of a bridge pickup is what has made most of the guitars that are really sensitive to feedback be tempermental. Although that isn’t universally true and there are other factors.

    Edit: I love my 175 too; not saying that isn’t a great guitar.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  39. #138

    User Info Menu

    My current WesMo, a 2011, does not give me any feedback issues. Heck last time I played Blue Note with a big band recently I had the Fender Twin right near me on the right side basically facing the guitar body and still no feedback issues. My previous 98 WesMo was not as forgiving by a long shot though. I think it was more acoustic as well. Perhaps this 2011 is built a bit heavier.
    Doug Martin
    www.dougmartinguitar.com

    "Live life and play music like it's your last day on earth. One day you'll be right" - Russel Malone

  40. #139

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Gitpicker View Post
    My current WesMo, a 2011, does not give me any feedback issues. Heck last time I played Blue Note with a big band recently I had the Fender Twin right near me on the right side basically facing the guitar body and still no feedback issues. My previous 98 WesMo was not as forgiving by a long shot though. I think it was more acoustic as well. Perhaps this 2011 is built a bit heavier.
    That is very interesting to me. My WESMO is a 96. She is very acoustic and feeds back pretty early. It is a fine guitar for a solo gig (I used it today on a 4 hour solo gig in fact) or any drummerless gig. Add drums and I want one of my 175's or the Super 400.

    I was thinking about getting a CES, but maybe I just need a later model WESMO? Or maybe I just do not need any more guitars.

    This forum can give you more GAS than a can of beans!
    Last edited by Stringswinger; 03-19-2018 at 11:59 AM.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  41. #140

    User Info Menu

    I only have in-hand experience with two WesMo's and one L-5CES. I own two of those three guitars. The '94 WesMo that I played but didn't buy was in the lead acoustically, followed by my 2016 Crimson WesMo, then the '99 CES. The 2016 WesMo weighs 7.4 lbs. The '94 was probably closer to 7 lbs even. The CES is about 8 lbs.

    I have not played in any context where I could evaluate the feedback resistance of the 2016 WesMo. It feels like a llively but thickly carved guitar. It has a soft, dark acoustic character that blends beautifully with the '57 Classic humbucker tones. I also have a '75 L-5C, and '47 and '28 pure acoustic L-5s, all of which are a great deal more properly bright, acoustic, and lightweight (~6 lbs) than any of the CES models.
    Permanent favorites: 2016 Gibson L-5 WesMo, 1999 Gibson L-5CESN, 1928 Gibson L-5
    Play more, buy less

  42. #141
    The 2 Wes Montgomery L5's Ive had were not acoustic at all.
    I have a VERY dainty touch. I think that is why I didn't get along with those L5's. The very reason they are both meant to be played with more force. I've identified this and vowed that when I get another L5, I will play it the way its supposed to be played. Vinny tells me that I have to dig in. I plan on doing that. But will I really? Probably not. Its becoming increasingly more apparent, the right L5 for me will probably be the one that has a lighter carve. It probably will have a floater on it too..
    I am learning a lot. While the concept of a thicker top makes sense for the professional, or the heavier picker, It may not make sense for me..
    Thank you guys!
    Joe D

  43. #142

    User Info Menu

    Joe, my take on that is the opposite of yours. A guitar that lacks acoustic qualities tends to respond more easily to a light touch than one that is acoustically lively, given the same pickup. One reason I just adore my recent WesMo is that the notes just pop out of it with minimal effort. Think of the extremes - a Les Paul with a hot pickup sustains and responds too easily for a jazz player. An acoustic archtop with a floater usually needs to be picked more heavily to take advantage of its dynamic range. Just a thought.

    Also, I put TI Swings 11-47 on my L-5CES guitars. Light strings definitely enable a delicate response on these guitars. You can still dig in and get the notes to "pop" aggressively like Ritenour does sometimes.
    Permanent favorites: 2016 Gibson L-5 WesMo, 1999 Gibson L-5CESN, 1928 Gibson L-5
    Play more, buy less

  44. #143
    Roger,
    That's cool.
    My opinion is that a guitar with a thicker top requires (among other things) a firmer picking style in order to get it to sound correct.
    The sound I've gotten from a thick top is a very "Plinky" sound. With my Black L5 Wes Montgomery, I managed to make a perfectly good L5 sound like crap. When Vinny got it, he LOVED it.
    With a thick top, I always felt you have to "drive the top". When I do that, I lose finesse. Then I sound too robotic.
    Joe D

  45. #144

    User Info Menu

    I have 3 L5 Wesmo’s. 2008, 2010, 2016. Never a feedback problem ever. Every Christmas season I play with a full orchestra with 2 trumpets and I must play pretty loud to overcome the brass volume and everyone is miked through a PA but me. I use a Music Man 212 which is basically the same as a Twin. I always feel the other instruments vibrating in my guitar but still no feedback through the amp. I sit next to 2 cello players and really can feel there notes vibrating in the L5. For me the L5 Wes is my perfect guitar with the Tal Farlow a very close second.

    The people that thumb there nose at the L5 are usually the folks that don’t own one. I have not heard too many L5 players say....gee I just hate this guitar. Same goes for a Super 400. Both top of the tone chain IMO.
    All I have ever heard from a audience is that is the best sounding guitar I have ever heard and the very next question being....what kind of guitar is that anyway.

  46. #145

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    The people that thumb their nose at the L5 are usually the folks that don’t own one. I have not heard too many L5 players say....gee I just hate this guitar.
    This is true for some, and will always prompt indignation from them when pointed out.

    However, let's give a nod of the head to our friends who would buy an L-5 if it was right for them, but purposefully choose other instruments. The L-5 does tend to be a very different feel vs. a laminate guitar. The fast bebop players get something special out of the 175/Tal class of instruments that works for them. The L-5CES and its ilk can be a bit too touch-sensitive, bright, and have too much sustain for some players' styles.
    Permanent favorites: 2016 Gibson L-5 WesMo, 1999 Gibson L-5CESN, 1928 Gibson L-5
    Play more, buy less

  47. #146

    User Info Menu

    I also love laminate guitars. I have a Tal Farlow and a 175. I wouldn’t live without either. I always say if I could only own one guitar it would be the Tal. Laminate doesn’t mean cheap in my book by any means.

    I always feel like their is some kind of magic dust inside a L5. I always play better on a L5. Kind of like standing next to royalty. You stand straighter. It is a privilege to play one. It demands your best.
    I have a Byrdland which is just as nice as a L5 but it doesn’t feel regal when I play it like the L5 does.
    When you pull a L5 out of the case it does something to you. Like you need to kneel and kiss its tailpiece first.

  48. #147

    User Info Menu

    I distinctly recall a time in my life--early 80s--when I had the money to purchase a new L-5CES. I intended to do it, too. I played a couple and was quite taken with what I considered to be the bees knees of guitars.

    THEN, I played a Gibson ES-175D in the same store. Uh, oh. _There_ was the sound that I had heard on all of the Joe Pass/Jim Hall/Herb Ellis records, right there in my hands--and only about half the money that the dealer wanted for the L-5CES. I A/B'd the L-5 and the 175 extensively and walked away confused.

    I had grown up listening to Wes, of course, but I was pretty smitten with the Hall/Pass/Ellis thing.

    Well...I ended up playing a vintage ES-175 for about 30 years and loved it. I never quite got the carved-body Gibson out of my system, though. Moreover, over time the sound of both Wes and Kenny Burrell eclipsed the 175 guys for me.

    Now, I am playing 17" and 18" carved, 25-1/2" scale archtops pretty exclusively. If I didn't own a nice Unity, I would certainly be playing an L-5.

    The point? Jazz can sound one way in your head for a long time, then start to sound another way. It will dictate the guitar you play.

  49. #148

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    The point? Jazz can sound one way in your head for a long time, then start to sound another way. It will dictate the guitar you play.
    A wise observation!
    _________
    JazzNote

  50. #149

    User Info Menu

    I did not come to the L-5 through Wes worship. Actually, I came to the archtop guitar via Pat Metheny, therefore I lusted after a blonde ES-175. For some reason, my in-hand experiences with actual ES-175 guitars did not match my fantasy. And roundabout the time I moved on from Metheny to many other artists, I came to see the L-5 as a holy grail. I can't even remember what made that impression on me. So it wasn't motivated by hero worship.

    For whatever foolish reason, I decided that electric archtops were not that special - they were just fat ES-335s or something, not worth the big bucks - and I wanted to concentrate on playing acoustic archtops. So I did that for a number of years and learned a lot. I owned four different acoustic L-5 guitars, with or without floating pickups. Great sound, lovely instruments, but still not the voice I had in my head.

    One day I said, enough of this silliness, you must own an L-5CES. I had never even played one before! And wow, that was the voice in my head. A few years later, just recently as it were, a great chance to own a new-old-stock WesMo came up and I took it. And that was the voice in my head amplified, in stereo! I can look at just about any gorgeous archtop now and think it's fantastic, but not actually want it. I sh*t you not. It's a good feeling. Everyone should find that feeling, whatever the guitar model is that gets you there.
    Permanent favorites: 2016 Gibson L-5 WesMo, 1999 Gibson L-5CESN, 1928 Gibson L-5
    Play more, buy less

  51. #150

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    I distinctly recall a time in my life--early 80s--when I had the money to purchase a new L-5CES. I intended to do it, too. I played a couple and was quite taken with what I considered to be the bees knees of guitars.

    THEN, I played a Gibson ES-175D in the same store. Uh, oh. _There_ was the sound that I had heard on all of the Joe Pass/Jim Hall/Herb Ellis records, right there in my hands--and only about half the money that the dealer wanted for the L-5CES. I A/B'd the L-5 and the 175 extensively and walked away confused.

    I had grown up listening to Wes, of course, but I was pretty smitten with the Hall/Pass/Ellis thing.

    Well...I ended up playing a vintage ES-175 for about 30 years and loved it. I never quite got the carved-body Gibson out of my system, though. Moreover, over time the sound of both Wes and Kenny Burrell eclipsed the 175 guys for me.

    Now, I am playing 17" and 18" carved, 25-1/2" scale archtops pretty exclusively. If I didn't own a nice Unity, I would certainly be playing an L-5.

    The point? Jazz can sound one way in your head for a long time, then start to sound another way. It will dictate the guitar you play.
    For the electric player the L5ces or L5Wes and the ES175 are the two rails of the tone train track. Whether we like them best or not, they become the reference point for describing others. You'll hear someone say "Yeah, it's like a 175 only brighter" but never "Yeah, like an Epiphone only darker..." (I have an Epiphone btw and love it).

    I am, however, an unreliable voice. I am slowly but relentless being sucked into the Gibson Vortex. I haven't just drunk the KoolAid, I'm swimming around in the vat.

    Just so you know. Objectivity can be over-rated.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town