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  1. #151

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    that ebay seller's feedback is too strong not to have mentioned finish checking. One thing is for certain, Woody String knows how to photograph a guitar...the ebay seller, not. Since 2010, I've seen Standard's typically sell in the $3500 range. Which I always found weird since I've seen countless Deluxe's sell for $4k and less
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D View Post
    I really don't think high end audio and high-end pro-level archtops can be accurately compared, in the new or used market. The main difference I believe is the sheer volume of different brands of acceptable high-end audio vs acceptable hi-end archtops. You could easily have 5 or more manufacturers ( making a fair amount ) of really good audio equipment, but were there five guitar brands making large numbers of archtops ? No.
    You may very well be right that the price of a used L-5 in the '90's was the high $3's - but if that was one guitar and it was three states away, so what ? The local stores weren't ever trading for them, and they still aren't. If there aren't any, there aren't any.
    My point is, until this last batch of new/used Custom Shop inventory dried up, there hadn't been that many Gibson archtops available - ever.
    And, really - at any time in the last 40 years, which would always be easier to locate - -a McIntosh component or a clean L-5 ?

    Again, just MHO.
    In 2010 the online buying of guitars was in vogue. Surely someone here can validate when online buying of guitars became commonplace. I purchased 7 Gibson guitars each online. When did the online guitar clearing house of such GBASE begin? It's hard to imagine that even in the year 2000 there weren't the same number of Gibson L5's available online as in 2010. Clearly this online purchasing thing is new to some of the old fogies here
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  4. #153

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    Gbase was founded in 1995-96, it was bought by D'Addario in 2005 and I have no idea who owns it today. I've been buying guitars on line since 2000. In fact of the roughly 15 guitars I've purchased since 2000, I've not had the opportunity to play one of them prior to purchase.

    In the 70's I was an adult in my 20's and while their were a couple of L-5s in my local music stores, they were unattainable with my salary. Hence the first archtop I purchased was an L5 Aria copy in 1976.

  5. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell View Post
    The Flintstones had a much better theme song. It was recorded by lots of jazz artists, several of them guitarists. Rhythm changes.

  6. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob taft View Post
    Gbase was founded in 1995-96, it was bought by D'Addario in 2005 and I have no idea who owns it today. I've been buying guitars on line since 2000. In fact of the roughly 15 guitars I've purchased since 2000, I've not had the opportunity to play one of them prior to purchase.

    In the 70's I was an adult in my 20's and while their were a couple of L-5s in my local music stores, they were unattainable with my salary. Hence the first archtop I purchased was an L5 Aria copy in 1976.
    So my theory of attaining Gibson archtops in the under $4k range online during the 90's isn't so far fetched. Thanks for the clarification Rob!
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  7. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    So my theory of attaining Gibson archtops in the under $4k range online during the 90's isn't so far fetched. Thanks for the clarification Rob!


    The economy was really flat in the early 90s, it started picking up thanks to the growing popularity of a thing called The Internet.

  8. #157

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    Woody, I had something more like this in mind for the Flintstones:

  9. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    So my theory of attaining Gibson archtops in the under $4k range online during the 90's isn't so far fetched. Thanks for the clarification Rob!

    I picked up my Gibson Le Grand new for $3650 in 1993 ....

    That was special deal from a store in Memphis where I had worked in the 80s ...

    But I think he would have done it for just about any one for an order ... essentially $500 over his cost .. about $3150

    List for a Le Grand at the time was $6300 ... IIRC the list on an L5 was a little higher at the time


    So if an L5 listed for $7000 and you found a store like Chuck Levins that would give you a 40% discount you would come in around $4200 for a new one

    I'm guessing used guitars would have run around 50% of list so $4K or less sounds right

    In the early 90s maybe even less ... I'm not so folks were after archtops at the time

  10. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedawg View Post
    I picked up my Gibson Le Grand new for $3650 in 1993 ....

    That was special deal from a store in Memphis where I had worked in the 80s ...

    But I think he would have done it for just about any one for an order ... essentially $500 over his cost .. about $3150

    List for a Le Grand at the time was $6300 ... IIRC the list on an L5 was a little higher at the time


    So if an L5 listed for $7000 and you found a store like Chuck Levins that would give you a 40% discount you would come in around $4200 for a new one

    I'm guessing used guitars would have run around 50% of list so $4K or less sounds right

    In the early 90s maybe even less ... I'm not so folks were after archtops at the time

    I just think those are couple of big ' ifs '. What if I hadn't worked at a music store and what if my local Gibson dealers weren't selling new ones for 50% off list, ( cost plus $500.00 ) which I hadn't and which they weren't ? And as I said, local dealers didn't even want archtop trade-ins. And they probably still don't.
    I never found GBase credible - - I couldn't understand or make sense of their pricing and what was or wasn't available, and where it might be. Elderly was a decent source for both pricing information and as a place to sell your equipment. It seems to me their archtop inventory has been very low since maybe the 2000's.

    Some time in the '90's, I found * one * '89 Blonde L-4 that needed frets - at a guitar show. I paid $2200. for it and was glad to do it. Were there any other used L-4's at local stores ? No. Were they available all over the place on-line, or were 175's ? No again. And was there a clean L-5 available right next to it for another thousand dollars ? No again, or I'd have bought it.

    So, yes back then I found one L-4 for $2200. Could I have found another at that price ? I doubt it - -as it was, I could barely find one. So maybe the price was $3500 for one clean L-5 somewhere, but if you went to buy one you'd better budget probably $4500. And even then you'd still have to locate a decent one to buy.

    Just MHO

  11. #160

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    well, my point was clearly there must have been L5's available via the internet during the mid to late 90's, and they were clearly available used for $3k less than a used L5 priced at $7k today. home audio was tearing up the used market on the internet in the mid 90's and it stands to reason that there was an availability of used L5's as well. I was commonly buying amps at $5k a pop, and could have easily been buying a collection of guitars. besides, buying higher end guitars is easily justifiable when you're single and during your working years.
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  12. #161

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    I mentioned this in another thread but I bought a mint but used '89 L-5CESN in '90 or '91 locally for $1800. The shop also had a brand new '90 blonde for $2600.
    I returned home and found a copy of the "Vintage News" [Mandolin Brothers catalogue] in my mailbox announcing Gibson was planning on a 35% increase in carved top guitars.
    I went back to the shop and bought the '90 the next day.
    I didn't keep them for very long and sold them for a very nice profit.
    The 35% price increase was just the beginning, they went up almost every year thereafter.

  13. #162

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    I don't know what was available, nor for how much. I couldn't afford to even think about buying one. I wasn't single.

  14. #163

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    I've been away for over a month and finally getting caught up enough to see what you all have been up to on the forum. One of the first posts that I opened is this one, asking about Campellone. It obviously is getting toward the end of Winter because the thread makes me believe that there is a serious case of cabin fever (and GAS) going down and people are getting itchy for spring. This thread took me a half hour to get through, and I was speed reading. Holy Smokes! 162 replies.

    I will only add a congratulations to Vinny on your Campellone order, since I own one. You are in for a Special treat. I love mine. I also enjoyed the many stories and generally friendly nature of them. What a great group of archtop guitar lovers.

    Here's my Campellone:

    Campellone Guitars-20180313_162919_1-jpg

  15. #164
    Thank you sky !

  16. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D View Post
    I just think those are couple of big ' ifs '. What if I hadn't worked at a music store and what if my local Gibson dealers weren't selling new ones for 50% off list, ( cost plus $500.00 ) which I hadn't and which they weren't ? And as I said, local dealers didn't even want archtop trade-ins. And they probably still don't.
    I never found GBase credible - - I couldn't understand or make sense of their pricing and what was or wasn't available, and where it might be. Elderly was a decent source for both pricing information and as a place to sell your equipment. It seems to me their archtop inventory has been very low since maybe the 2000's.

    Some time in the '90's, I found * one * '89 Blonde L-4 that needed frets - at a guitar show. I paid $2200. for it and was glad to do it. Were there any other used L-4's at local stores ? No. Were they available all over the place on-line, or were 175's ? No again. And was there a clean L-5 available right next to it for another thousand dollars ? No again, or I'd have bought it.

    So, yes back then I found one L-4 for $2200. Could I have found another at that price ? I doubt it - -as it was, I could barely find one. So maybe the price was $3500 for one clean L-5 somewhere, but if you went to buy one you'd better budget probably $4500. And even then you'd still have to locate a decent one to buy.

    Just MHO

    Yeah .. there are some big "ifs" in there ..

    IIRC my boss told me he would give anyone the same deal at the time .... but that would have been hard to know about if you didn't live in Memphis and visit his store now an then

    maintaining a guitar in stock has expenses and risks that you don't have with an order that is already sold before it shows up at the store ... and he was happy with $500 to cover his expenses, get a little profit and make a customer happy

    And not everybody lived near a dealer like Chuck Levins that could move enough stock in the pre internet days to regularly give out 30 and 40 percent discounts

    So yeah ... before the internet it was hard to find a used or new L5 or Super 400 ... maybe easier in a large metro area, but still few and far between

  17. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedawg View Post
    Yeah .. there are some big "ifs" in there ..
    Well, by the lack of responses to my question, clearly it seems that most here were not on the internet in 1995. The place was a hoppin' marketplace. And getting my first computer in '95 I thought I was late coming to the 'net
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  18. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop View Post
    Well, by the lack of responses to my question, clearly it seems that most here were not on the internet in 1995. The place was a hoppin' marketplace. And getting my first computer in '95 I thought I was late coming to the 'net

    My first encounter with the internet was around 1993 ... unless you count looking up a research paper in 1984 on some sort of college network

    I don't remember much in the way of guitar sales on the internet in 1995 .. I do remember hanging out on some computer gaming sites at the time ... Harmony Central may go that far back, but I can't remember

  19. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedawg View Post
    My first encounter with the internet was around 1993 ... unless you count looking up a research paper in 1984 on some sort of college network

    I don't remember much in the way of guitar sales on the internet in 1995 .. I do remember hanging out on some computer gaming sites at the time ... Harmony Central may go that far back, but I can't remember
    The USENET forums had a marketplace forum (classifieds) for countless different products. These forums were the first sources of internet classifieds before actual website development in abundance. My first purchases were from usenet forums. This was before paypal. It was the wild west. Users posted items for sale, and you prepaid via money order, just like one would if they purchased an item via a classified in a magazine advertisement. Those were fun days, and amazingly sellers were honest.
    "You've got to be in the sun to feel the sun. It's that way with music too." - Sidney Bechet

  20. #169

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    September 1993 (almost 25 years ago):
    Mark Campellone was advertising in places like Twentieth Century Guitar and Vintage Guitar magazine "Archtop builder. Traditionally styled, acoustic and electric models. For free information package, write or call ...".

    Here are various used/vintage archtop listing asking prices from September 1993:

    ’28 L-5 ------------------------------------ $10,000 - Guitarville
    ’29 L-5 ------------------------------------ $15,000 - Guitarville
    ’30s Epi Broadway Masterbuilt----------- $2,500 - Guitarville
    ’30s L-4 ----------------------------------- $1,850 - Guitarville
    ’30s L-7 Advanced ----------------------- $2,500 - Guitarville
    ’37 ES-150--------------------------------- $3,950 - Guitarville
    ’37 L5 ------------------------------------- $2,500 - Elderly
    ’38 ES-150-------------------------------- $3,750 - Guitarville
    ’38 L-7 - added humbucker -------------- $975 - Guitarville
    ’38 Super 400 SB ------------------------- $7,500 - Guitar Broker
    ’43 D’A Excel ------------------------------- $20,000 - Tom Van Hoose
    ’47 L-7 - w/pickup ------------------------- $2,500 - Guitarville
    ’48 L5 --------------------------------------- $3,800 - Northeastern
    ’52 Super 400CN - McCarty ----------------- $20,000 - Guitar Broker
    ’53 ES-5 SB --------------------------------- $5,000 - Guitarville
    ’56 ES-175D SB PAF ------------------------ $2,000 - Elderly
    ’56 ES-295 ---------------------------------- $4,000 - Southworth
    ’56 Switchmaster N ------------------------- $6,500 - Southworth
    ’57 ES-175D SB pre-PAFs ------------------- $2,895 - Gulf Coast
    ’59 ES-350TN - PAFs ------------------------- $3,850 - Elderly
    ’59 Gertsch CC N ----------------------------- $2,500 - Northeastern
    ’61 Super 400CES SB, PAFs ----------------- $20,000 - Guitarville
    ’62 L-4C - SB - JS pickup -------------------- $1,500 - Buck Sulcer
    ’62 L-5C - Iced Tea burst, JS pickup -------- $7,500 - Guitar Broker
    ’64 Byrdland SB ----------------------------- $2,500 - Elderly
    ’65 ES-175D SB ------------------------------ $1,600 - Elderly
    ’65 Super 400CES PAFs - Iced Tea burst --- $15,000 - Guitar Broker
    ’66 L-5CESN ---------------------------------- $6,500 - Guitarville
    ’66 Super 400CESN -------------------------- $8,500 - Elderly
    ’68 BK Custom ------------------------------- $1,800 - Northeastern
    ’68 Byrdland refin dark green --------------- $1,850 - Elderly
    ’68 ES-175N ---------------------------------- $1,350 - Northeastern
    ’68 Super 400CESN -------------------------- $8,500 - Elderly
    ’69 Byrdland SB------------------------------- $3,500 - Guitarville
    ’90 L-5CES SB -------------------------------- $3,300 - Elderly
    ’91 Guild X-170 ------------------------------- $1,100 - New Hope
    Fender D’Aquisto Standard - black ---------- $1,195 - Gulf Coast
    'xx Super 300 --------------------------------- $2,900 - Northeastern
    ’91 L-5CES - diamond soundholes,Cobalt Blue - CS - $3,995 - Gulf Coast - I remember playing this one
    Triggs Key Largo - 16” D’A style,custom paint - $7,995 - Gulf Coast - I remember playing this one
    Last edited by Hammertone; 03-24-2019 at 04:50 PM.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  21. #170

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    Jabbs',

    The Bureau of Labor Statistics says a 1993 dollar today is 1.72 , so, the '56 ES-175D SB PAF - $2,000 - Elderly would be about 3,500. We both know that average covers a lot of territory. If we had an 'Archtop Guitar Consumers Price Index' we could really have some fun with all of the ceterus paribus arguments. I know that in 1972, when money was tight, I bought the 175 instead of the L5.

    Today, I'd say relative to everything else, a Campellone is an awesome deal and Vinny is going to be very happy!

    Nice list. Thanks for posting it.

  22. #171

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    FWIW

    I have a Benedetto catalog from around 1993 or '92 ....

    My favorite Benedetto, judging by just the pictures at least, is the La Venezia ... in the early 90s they ran about $10K ...

    The La Venezia is now at $22K .. and more likely to be a team build rather than Benedetto himself doing most of the work

  23. #172
    Attachment 51679


    The build begins.

  24. #173

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    AFAIK Bob hasn't been building guitars for some time, other than for the occasional special project. He comes in once a month or so and signs the back of the pegheads. He's old, like many of us, and is at least semi-retired. I don't begrudge him that one bit. Damon Mailand was Bob's apprentice for years, and has been doing the job himself for a good while. He doesn't do everything himself, but oversees the process. So if you buy a new Benedetto, it won't be built by Bob, but he still signs off on the guitars. I don't think the quality has suffered, and a Benedetto would still be my first choice for a new high-end guitar, if I ever do buy one. So far everything has been bought used, dictated by economics.

  25. #174
    Attachment 51776Attachment 51775

    Front and back plates

  26. #175

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    It's beautiful already. Did you opt for a non-cutaway?

  27. #176

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    Nice Vinny. The flame is terrific !

    Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

  28. #177
    No it will have a cutaway.

  29. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    Attachment 51776Attachment 51775

    Front and back plates
    Boing!

  30. #179
    Attachment 52097

    PROGRESS

  31. #180
    I like thick tops. Mark carved the top to my specs and beefed up the bracing per my request. I like a really dark tone.

  32. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    I like thick tops. Mark carved the top to my specs and beefed up the bracing per my request. I like a really dark tone.
    Vinny,
    Most of my better sounding guitars have thicker tops and parallel bracing . I’m excited for your new build - a very smart choice.

  33. #182

  34. #183

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    That's looking like it will be a real beauty

  35. #184

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    Beautiful! Mark does an amazing job. Is that a jack in the side?
    Keith

  36. #185

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    Vinny,

    You are going to have your mind blown when you play the guitar! Thank you for the updates. I'm enjoying the journey. Very cool.

    Steve

  37. #186

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    A fine archtop under construction is a beautiful thing to behold!
    Best regards, k

  38. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by floatingpickup View Post
    Beautiful! Mark does an amazing job. Is that a jack in the side?
    Keith

    Yes......nicely reinforced.

  39. #188
    His fit and finish is very impressive on the parts you will never see. I do believe this axe will be the cherry on top.

  40. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    His fit and finish is very impressive on the parts you will never see. I do believe this axe will be the cherry on top.


    Yup, you're right ! And it'll be in good hands when it's completed.

    Congrats again V. !

  41. #190

  42. #191

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    Awesome!
    Best regards, k

  43. #192

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    Just beautiful. Going to be sweet.

  44. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k View Post
    His fit and finish is very impressive on the parts you will never see. I do believe this axe will be the cherry on top.
    Regarding mine, I once asked Mark how he executes his inlays (a part you WILL see, but nonetheless...) so expertly. "Carefully," was his reply.

  45. #194

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    Thank you for providing a template to copy in case I order one!

  46. #195

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    It's BADASS Vincenzo !!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Big

  47. #196

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    What a Body!!! Can't wait to Check the Neck!!!
    measure with micrometer... mark with chalk... cut with axe

  48. #197

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  49. #198
    Attachment 52795

    The neck begins

  50. #199
    Amazing documentary Vinny of building a custom one of a kind archtop. Awesome to find a builder that will take the time to document the creation. Love the inlay work on that beauty.

  51. #200

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    Looking good Vinny

    Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk