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It's a good looking guitar for $300, I'll say that. Maybe get a decent used pickup and some new pots and wire and go from there. Maybe it needs to break in as well. Congrats.
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01-31-2018 07:50 PM
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Ok I take back everything negative about this guitar. I had a luthier friend set it up, re-string it, clean it up including the pots and switches etc. It sounds a million times better. A little overdrive in the amp and you can nail Terry Kath. It's warmer richer and all around better. It does need new pickups they're kind of thin and feed back like crazy. The tuners are garbage. Otherwise I can't believe the difference. My buddy was playing some Wes Montgomery and it sounded lovely.
Thank everyone for your advice encouragement and help! This one's a keeper!
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Terry Kath played only solid body guitars as far as I know. SGs, Tele, Strat, maybe a Les Paul too. I wouldn't have thought a guitar like the HJ650 would be all that good at capturing his tone. Interesting.
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I wouldn't have either. It just that really sweet bottom end like on South Carolina Purples. I don't know maybe it was the amp. In any event it's quite an improvement.
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I had a Aria FA71 which is another super well made and attractive guitar but dead sounding. Replaced the asian floating pup with a Benedetto and it was no better. But the guitar was flawless with a great fret job.
I think big lam boxes need full sized powerful humbuckers to sound good.
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I've owned a Samick-made L-5 copy with the Tamaki brand.
I bought it second-hand, it was hardly used and I got it for next to nothing. It did sound a bit "dead", though.
However, after a good year of regular playing, I finally got it to "break-in". and a total hardware overhaul made it an excellent player.
In total, I paid about the 6 % of the price of a real L-5 in my neck of woods, but I'd estimate I did get 90% of the tone.
Unfortunately, I had to sell it because of medical bills.
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OP: Do you mean acoustically, or electrically? I had a JZ4 (single floater) that sounded completely dead on its own, but pretty decent amplified.
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Amplified and acoustic. Although see my updated post the one I have is much better after work was done. The Lasalle may be the same, but that one was worse it was really dull and lifeless. I think it had a solid spruce top on it as well.
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Several years ago I bought a used HJ-650N off of the GC website as an inexpensive "beater archtop" project. Long story short: I ended up returning it.
For those who may not be familiar with it, the Samic Artist Series was the top of the line from Samick in 1995-2001, and the HJ-650 was a 25.5" guitar with a 17"x 3-7/8" body. It was patterned after an L5-CES. I still have the pics of the one that I bought from it's listing on the GC website:
My hopes were that by upgrading the electronics with a pair of 57 Classics, that I'd be able to get a decent sounding guitar that looked the part for martini bars, and offered more flexibility than the Unsung Emperor Regent that I already had.
The first thing that I have to say about the guitar is positive -- overall build quality was excellent -- on par with the best Korean instruments I've played. The workmanship on the guitar was flawless, which was truly impressive for such an inexpensive guitar. As far as setup and playability were concerned, I couldn't find anything to complain about. But the body had the heaviest poly finish that I have ever seen on a guitar, and as good looking as the guitar was, it's beauty was only skin deep.
I have to concur with the OP's original impression -- my specimen sounded like dead wood. To me, it sounded more like dead wood than any other laminate type of guitar that I've ever owned. It was DEAD, DEAD DEAD. My used HJ-650N had been played enough to have been broken in, but it still had all of the wooden tonality of a brick. IMO the heavy poly finish on the body just choked any chance of life out of the guitar. Heavy new strings helped a little, but never cured the problem. I tried for a solid week to get accustomed to the guitar, and eventually it did grow on me --- that is to say that I convinced myself that it sounded OK ... until I compared it side by side to anything else. IMO the process of playing it for a week sort of lulled me into a bit of complacency and acceptance. That complacency went away as soon as I did a direct comparison with something else. At that time my best direct comparison for an inexpensive Korean laminate archtop was an Unsung Emperor Regent. Compared to that Epiphone -- which is just another inexpensive Korean guitar -- the Samick was just dreadfully dead and it had to go. There just wasn't any semblance of wood tone coming out of the guitar. Although the Samick looked the part and felt great in the hand, the Epi sounded a LOT more lively and woody. Some of this may have been due to the maple top in the Samick vs. the spruce top in the Epi. The set-in pups definitely contributed to the problem, but I think that the heavier laminate top and the heavy poly finish were what was really holding the Samick back. During that era the Samick finishes were really heavy.
As it was a project guitar, I got it at an inexpensive price. My original plan for the project was just to find an inexpensive long-scale large-format laminate guitar with cheap electronics and replace the pups. This was based on the idea that even a lifeless guitar should be OK when plugged in, as long as it was playable and had decent electronics. This guitar proved my theory to be wrong. The guitar was just SO DEAD that I couldn't stand playing it when not plugged in, and the electronics weren't going to be enough. For a brief moment I gave some serious thought to sanding the guitar down to bare wood to give it a sporting chance at life, but I decided against letting the project snowball into something bigger than I had originally planned. The guitar went back to my local GC for a return. I haven't regretted the decision.
Maybe I just got a bad one. It didn't take long for me to determine that for the amount of time, effort, and money that I'd have to sink into the Samick, it just made more sense for me to spend more up front on something that was satisfying right out of the box. My two cents are that if it's really dead then don't go looking for reasons to try to convince yourself to keep it -- your best bet may be to move on to something else. There are lots of guitars out there...
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+1 on pickup swap. I have a Samick JZ4. It was OK but after about ten years I put on a Lollar Johnny Smith. Pretty sweet... sounds like a poor man’s Collings!
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Thanks for confirming I'm not nuts. I got mine at GC as well. And after I changed the strings etc I thought it cured the problems and was super happy. Played it today and back to a muffled dead tone. Mine has a ton of finish as well. As did the Lasalle I tried which had a solid top. That one sounded even more dead. I think I'll probably end up returning it for something else. Maybe an Epiphone Es-175. I don't want to spend a ton. Or I really dig the Ibanez made from bubinga albeit it's probably just laminate. I think this Samick will drive me bonkers.
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I really wished that I could have gotten my Samick to work out, but it just wasn't the guitar that I hoped it would be. It sounds like you've had the same "ear accommodation" problem that I had, where I got used to to what the guitar sounded like and just sort of accepted it as being OK until I A/B'd it with something better. Doing that made it evident how dead it was. If you're feeling the same way, then don't feel pressured to keep it. Even though that guitar can be had at a cheap price, remember -- it was cheap for a reason. It's like a lot of other inexpensive guitars that are well built and look great, but just don't sound all that great. I've always wondered if stripping the finish off of them might help, but that seemed like a rather extreme measure to take on an inexpensive guitar.
Many people like the Epi 175 with the nitro finish. I tried, but I couldn't make one work for me. The scale was short and the neck was just too thin for my tastes.
Good luck.
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Thanks! We both must have the same ear. I tried it on two amps today and gave up. There was just no life to it.
So I brought it back to GC. Even the manager gave it a go and agreed that it had the tone of a brick. We tried a Katana and a JC-120 with the same result. Also, I didn't notice when I bought it, but the high E tuner was about to break off. Must have been a dud.
So I walked out of GC with two guitars and an amp. Darn it I hate it when that happens. I picked two Ibanez guitars that I found impressive. I was surprised at the tone. Both sounded warm, rich and articulate. One was new one was used. I'm not quite sold on the 175 looking model. Not sure about the alder body but it has a spruce top. It's an AKJV90DAL. Though I'm not sure it's alder because the Ibanez website says Maple sides and back
Three piece neck 3/58in deep.
The white one is an AF105NT. It sounds great and looks amazing. It has a 5 piece maple, bubinga neck. Maple top sides and back. It's a joy to play. For $399 including the hardshell it's a keeper.
Then I picked up a Fender Mustang IV v.2 to round things out. Used but came with the four button pedal.
All-in-all I'm happy with how everything worked out. Spent way too much, but have two nice guitars and a nice sounding amp.
Here's some pictures of each.
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PS Thanks to everyone for your advice and suggestions. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!
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Cool, the Ibanez AKJV90DAL! I seriously considered ordering that when I did my el cheapo Ibanez project (went for their cheapest instead: the AF55-TF) because I really like their 'vintage relic look'. It has the neck pickup right up at the 20-fret neck, so in a very different spot than the ES-175 and I found out that sounds significantly different, by no means worse, but different.
Very curious to hear how you like it!
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Haven't much of a chance to play them yet as I'm in the middle of closing a contract for my business. But happy to report back in a few days. It appears the AKJV90 is a solid spruce top not laminate which was a bit of a surprise. In the short time I've played it. I can say it has a mellow sound through a Champion 100. Very nice highs. The neck is pretty fast. The aging process thing is a little meh to me, but oh well. And I was a little peeved that a higher end Ibanez didn't come with at least a gear bag. Again, oh well...
Originally Posted by Little Jay
I'll give a progress report in a few days. So far so much better than the Samick it replaced. One I do a setup etc. It should really play nicely.
Sent from my XT1635-02 using Tapatalk
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Thanks! I would be happy to report back. Only have had an hour with it so far, but it sounds so much richer than the Samick. Let you know after a few days! Originally Posted by rolijen
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Spruce top, seemingly maple back and sides and 22nd fret neck pickup make that look very interesting to me! I’d love to hear what you think of it when you feel like it’s settled in. I really like the look of it too - I wish they could do that without the dings since I prefer my own dings unless a previous lender did it but at least they didn’t go too overboard with the relicing. The finish and bound f holes are nice touches too and for a cheap guitar I’d love to try one out if I ever see one around. Congrats on your trade back and acquisitions - seems like it all worked out for the best.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Here's my son from 12 years ago playing a samick that is decidedly not dead sounding IMO...
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Like I said mine may have just been a dud. I have no idea. It just didn't sound right. I shouldn't have made such a generalized statement though. BTW nice playing by your son!
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So I had an hour to play the AKJV90DAL, or the one with the ES-175 cut, through my Champion 100 today for an hour. Now bear in mind it's been about 10 years since I was last playing regularly so I have a lot of rust to shake off.
It's an interesting guitar. The neck is fast, frets are low. Could use a setup. Based on the inch of dust on the headstock it was sitting at GC for a while.
The bridge pickup is much hotter than I figured it would be. Suitable for blues and frankly rock. Voiced very much on the treble side. Switch to the neck pickup and you have a beautiful clean woody articulate voicing. This guitar is so alive. The spruce top is really warm. It's a whole lot more alive than the Samick. I was getting some Joe Pass like sounds from it. Even though the bridge pickup is on the dark mellow side high notes ring well. Sustain is great. It came with flat wound strings. Acoustic it sounds woody deep and mellow.
In the short time I spent playing I'm more than happy. I'm not trying to convince myself this is what a jazz box should sound like which is what I was doing with the Samick. This sounds like what I would expect from a nice hollow body guitar. More updates when I get the Mustang IV figured out.
I picked up another guitar today as well someone was selling it cheap on CL so I picked it up. It's an Ibanez AF-85VLS. Pics below. Sounds nice as well. Now I think I got the Gas out of my system.
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Another Ibanez! Congratz and thanks or the feedback on the AKJV. I became an Ibanez fan after I got my AF55; I have never had so much good sounding and good playing guitar for that little money. Very impressive! Ibanez has a good formula going on in terms of quality vs efficient production methods and their quality control seems excellent.
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Having listened to more Guitars (online but I can hear many things this way) ( and Recording is/will be my main use ) - Originally Posted by Robertkoa
One difference between this Guitar and something like an L5 or a PM 100 and I am sure others .... is there is kind of a resonant 'glow' in some Guitars - I think from the way the overtones reinforce each other ( like a good tube amp sometimes )... and create a kind of ' sweeter' tone .
They tried to do this with ' aural exciters ' in studio rack gear , and clean tube devices etc.
But some Guitars do it themselves better than others excellent intonation etc needed but ... some Guitars have prettier harmonics , as part of the Tone (not artificial harmonics ).
Listen to any clean ES 335 recording with some long notes .
Listen to any clean recording of a Westville 'Water' and hear the much sweeter harmonic balance in the Westville compared to any ES 335 .
No idea how they do it.
That's mostly what's missing on this Guitar ...but that's a minor difference for most people, especially for $4000. $6000.more .
If you hear it differently or think I am crazy on this point ( lol ) - I will use
'the listener is always right ' and not disagree or debate it .
These small differences are more important for recordings IMO - audience in a Club might not even hear it...if you go Modeler or Tube Pre> Cab IRs> into FRFR in a Venue then more audible etc.
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I have a samick made Epiphone ES-175 I bought for a project. Put in dogear P90s and sanded the finish down to the paint, then hand polished it with linseed oil. The tone changed quite dramatically for the better and I love that guitar!
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It said on the Samick Site that it was just you ....
Just kidding.
Some Guitars enhance the strings vibrations and add resonance to the Tone.
Also - some pickups are slightly microphonic ( in a good way ) and do ' report' 'conduct' vibrations and lower harmonics from the top or body.
If it sounds dead unplugged listening in really really quiet environment , AND sounds thin and dead ( no ambience, additional harmonic halo around tone want to hear a 'halo' Moffas all have it.) even plugged in .
Then might be kinda dead.
Some Guitars give additional resonance but hard to hear unplugged - like Les Pauls etc .
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