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I’m a fan but... Bigsby.
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12-21-2018 09:03 PM
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My thing with Godin: Redesign the body so that it flushes out with the neck at the cut away. It was a big enough deal for me that I sold my Jazz model because of it. You can see the body binding in the video to see what I mean. Other than that they are great guitars IMHO.
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Look out Gretsch, we're coming for your lunch.
Originally Posted by MAJackson
I'd love to see a Kingpin 1x P90 with a cutaway. I'd trade my my Kingpin for that and few bucks, but alas ... I have to admit those Dearmond clones sound pretty good, though.
John
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Does that really get in the way of the left hand? Originally Posted by lammie200
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Funny that neither one of the pics show the player going up into the upper registers. It did get in my way. The actual neck heel is reasonably small. But the body has these sharp edges not only adjacent to the fret board at the bottom edge, but also at the heel. I hesitate to be too critical of Godin, because other than that they are great guitars. The Jazz model that I had sounded wonderful and was stunningly beautiful. It just wasn't a "full board" guitar for me. I need that.
BTW, it looks like P. Catherine busted his pick guard. Wonder if he lost a little control negotiating those edges when he went on a high run? Hmmm! Probably not, but you might get my point.
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Actually I did get your "point" (pun, ha!). If I sounded doubtful or cynical I didn't mean it at all. It just appears to me that the binding thing is so small that it would barely matter. The pics were strictly for illustration. But I've never played one, so I don't doubt at all that it did for you. And I do know how much I notice a 32nd" difference in neck widths. Originally Posted by lammie200
And the broken pickguard IS funny.
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I would definitely recommend finding and playing one to see if theses ledges that I am describing would affect you. If you can follow the white binding line at the 14th fret that points back to Catherine's body you can see how the neck heel is much smaller than the body. All right/square angles and very clunky. Sorry for my bluntness on the subject. I really wanted to like the Jazz model that I had but this one thing prevented me from doing so.
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The ledge thing is cost-saving bullshit, laziness and bad design.
You know it.
I know it.
Godin knows it.
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Originally Posted by Hammertone
It seems that a lot of the Canadian builders go that route - maybe something to do with the Larrivee influence.
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The DeArmond style pickups sound really good...and God in already makes a great P-90.
Bigsbys...well... I hate them.
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Yeah, I just looked at Larrivee's website. I don't know how anyone could negotiate that kind of joint, but it may just be me. Originally Posted by Skip Ellis
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In the case of Larrivee and all the other builders who have cutaway flattops with the ledge, it's simply laziness and bullshit design. Oskar Graf is the only builder of the bunch who had a decent cutaway design. Since the early days, some of these builders have made amends for their sins - I've seen flattop cutaway guitars from Dave Wren that eliminated the shelf. I'm sure other have repented as well. Originally Posted by Skip Ellis
Oskar Graf is a lovely person and a class act:
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great they are using tv jones great pickups!!..one of the best pup guys currently out there....the bigsby is a b6 type..so can be removed with no detriment to the arch top
cheers
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A bigsby doesn't bother me. Most of my guitars don't have them, but a couple do and it comes it handy for a few genres or for simply just changing things up once in awhile. Variety is the spice of life!
Design wise, the thing that's always irked me about Godin is the text written vertically on the headstock (the part that reads 5th Avenue Made in Canada). It would look so much better and cleaner without it. The same thing has made me pass on a Gibson Herb Ellis. Superficial I know. But it just doesn't look good to me. Could a luthier "fix" it by scraping it off? Or is getting a cleaner looking headstock simply too much of a hassle relative to how minor a detail it is on an otherwise good guitar?
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Seems to me all they have to do is widen the heel. Maybe I’m way wrong.
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Stop it, Godin. You're killing me with all the 5th Avenue models.
I've already bought 2, and can't deal with the GAS with MORE MODELS.
So that's enough. K? Thks...
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Way right. But it means they would need to make a change to their production process, CAD programming, jigs, training, etc. Dead easy to do but it would cost them money. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
When Gibson, Epiphone and other archtop makers introduced cutaways, they revised their tapered heel designs to fit their cutaway designs. Gibson did it right away. Very early cutaway examples introduced by Epiphone in 1949 have the shelf, but Epiphone moved quickly to fix the design. Here's a '49 Emperor before the change:
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Some of the German builders took a different approach in the 1950s, and tapered the rim at the cutaway to match the tapered heel. It's a thing of beauty. It's where Graf got his design. Here's one from a Hoyer Special (like a Super 400, only better, of course).
Last edited by Hammertone; 12-23-2018 at 04:40 AM.
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i think it is great that godin is tired of being boring and is making efforts to look and sound cool for once. i just wish they were better at it. hint: the dots. and maybe some binding. and some pickguards. and new fholes, etc. as ever, these are steps in the right direction, though. the blue is the closest they've gotten in a while. i think that one is winning, actually, though i'm not convinced it needs a bigsby. the dyna'd one is a cool in a "dude, just get a gretsch" sort of way. the color is nice but it needs a pickguard. the mixed pickup one is a little eesh, visually. that's hard to pull off and again, a pickguard may have helped. i'm also not convinced that's the right combo for an archtop- who wishes their archtop had a paf in the bridge?
not sure what the pricing will be, but the market seems kind of limited. i assume they'll fall between mic/mik gretsches and mij gretsches, pricewise. which makes sense, but they seem like different market segments. i can't imagine anyone interested in a gretsch being dissuaded by these, and vice versa. these are like "cool" guitars for people who are afraid to be "cool" and know they can't pull off a gretsch. like how you have 1%ers and stuff, and then you have the responsible accountants who pull out their giant goldwings on the weekends with their wives in tow.
hammer- there is something unnerving about the smoothness of that graf cutaway. it just feels off to me in its perfection, somehow, as dumb as that sounds. then again, i don't ponder cutaways much because many of my guitars don't have them and i don't really play the stupid baby frets anyway. if i do, its because i'm using capo like on the 9th fret and nobody makes a guitar or cutaway or neck carve that caters to that, so suck it up, people
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The Boys from Bubenreuth came up with a few ways to combine a tapered heel with a cutaway before going Gibson. This was the nicest:
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Meh. Gretsch has the Electromatic line, no worries. Originally Posted by John A.
I dig Bigsbys, once you get the hang of keeping them in tune... but a neck-only archtop with a Bigsby does seem a weird combo...
TVJs effing rock.Last edited by ruger9; 12-23-2018 at 10:25 AM.
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It is kinda puzzling to me that Godin has used the neck joint design that we have been discussing. I have attached some pics of the Jazz model and Montreal model. The Jazz is full hollow, the Montreal is semi. The neck joint designs differ greatly. The Jazz has all the edges and angles that I couldn't live with. The big plus, however, is that the fret board is cantilevered over the guitar's top. Lot of free movement in the top and I am sure that that is a major contributing factor to the good sound that you can get out these models. It also seems like they could still cantilever the fret board with better sculpting of the neck joint to avoid all the angles and edges. It would be a killer guitar if that were the case IMHO. The Montreal has a more conventional neck joint as you can see. No cantilever though and not fully hollow. You would be getting a lot more of the sound out of the pick ups that anything else I would imagine. The first two pics are the Montreal. The last three pics are the Jazz.
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I like jazz. I want to hear notes. Lots of them. I've got guitars. They have frets. I try to hit them all. I have spent most of my life playing Fender-type partscasters. I like the baby frets. I also check the fret board smudge patterns on the guitars that I have that I can see them easily on from time to time. If all the frets aren't getting hit I make an effort to hit them. It's just an obsession that I have. Originally Posted by feet
...i don't really play the stupid baby frets anyway. if i do, its because i'm using capo like on the 9th fret and nobody makes a guitar or cutaway or neck carve that caters to that, so suck it up, people
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^ good godin comparison pics..i can totally see how that joint/ledge could be problematic when playing the upper frets..you have to readjust your hand position every time you move up the neck...interesting
cheers
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Originally Posted by neatomic
Aw, Setzer has been doing this his whole career, no problems. When he gets up high, the thumb comes off the back of the neck, and he wraps around...
Having a hell of a time finding a pic or a video of him doing it, but he does it quite a bit, I've been a big fan for many years.
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