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Last edited by JB108; 04-17-2021 at 02:53 PM.
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12-14-2017 01:20 PM
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This is not what I want when I buy a new guitar. I would rather spend and get something that is quality. What you describe needing tells me is junk.
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Originally Posted by deacon Mark
Stick to buying Gibson, Heritage or other American made gear then.
Your comments are actually sort of bad form, trashing a new guys and his NGD by saying this guitar (in your eyes) is junk. Nice... NOT
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Here we go!
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JB108, you could transform the guitar into an instrument which makes you feel good when playing it - that's the main thing IMHO. Besides that it also looks very nice. Just for curiosity, how much did you spend for it altogether?
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While Mark's comment was a bit "from the hip," see it in context. He is a fine guitar tech who learned from Bill Hollenbeck- of which he owns a couple as well as a real D'Angelico or two and other fine guitars. From that perspective, the guitar should be delivered perfect. When the customer picked up up his D'Angelico, he'd play it there with John D so any needed adjustments could be made and a bottle of wine would be opened to toast the guitar. When my Cushman was shipped to me, I just had to set the bridge in place and tune it; it was set up beautifully. I had to drink the bottle of wine by myself, though (sorry, Matt).
These archtops made in China are discount custom guitars. They cost a fraction of what having the same guitar made in Europe or the US would cost. But with the cost savings come the understanding that some corner cutting is done with the attached hardware- electronics, tuners, needing a setup, etc.- and that the buyer expects to have some additional costs with those. Some of us even like doing that.
But as long as the fundamentals are done right, meaning the woodcraft, then the end result can be very good indeed. There are many examples of lovely guitars from Mr. Wu, etc., on this forum. Most of them seem to have needed the same things done to them. This guitar is very attractive, gorgeous even. The color in particular is really rich and wonderful, the inlays are classic and I really like the how the replacement pickguard looks against the top. If it plays well and sounds good, then that's a winner. Ultimately the only person who has to be satisfied is the owner.
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The problem really when selling any new guitars is to see where you stand in the market and proceed. Certainly we would not expect a new guitar made in China that sells relatively cheap to be set up like a Gibson, Heritage, PRS, or Martin. However is the quality control is way off and it needs what seems to be a major set up to be playable then in my mind I start thinking "cheap." Then I start putting the name brand of this guitar as a beginner type instrument or something that is not going hold up in the long run. Avoid those and even if the price is great they have no resale.
Take Eastman for instance. They make fine guitars and the quality control is such that they are a pretty good deal. But if they had major issues then in the end they sink. In the guitar you bought you have about $1900 us and if you like it then great not a problem. I do think that for $1900 you probably could have got an Eastman that would be worth much more down the road on trading or selling. It is almost the same problem with boutique handmade guitars. Unless it is a big name person they really do not resale very good either and one would expect QC to be very good.
Actually Gibson should sell guitars set up within certain parameters but I am not naive they need some work even new at times. In fact I have done just that for guitarist. Person bought a nice Gibson 335 and had me do a bit of set up. It was not drastic but just bit of work on the nut and relief with the strings the player used. Now if I buy a guitar from a first rate maker like Matt Cushman then for sure I know I will get what the poster described as a guitar that needs to be strung and played. Certainly the price will reflect this and nothing worse than a bad reputation on QC for really any guitar that is designed to be played by a professional or serious hobbyist.
I bought a 1944 D'angelico Style A from George Gruhn in about 1990. Unpacked the guitar and put the bridge on and tune it up. Played fine just made a small action adjustment and bingo. I throw that out because dealers have also worry about reputation and what customer expect.
Finally myself as a repair person I find I have to be really careful because if I let out any guitar with a problem or someone says the work is not good, I am in trouble. I think I look at it that way because I want someone to leave saying the guitar plays great. Good new guitars that are set up and QC is outstanding have the potential to be forces in the guitar world. I know of some individual makers who started out and had some QC issues and in the end it destroyed their chances to succeed.
This is long post probably has zero to do with the OP giving us a good run down but I throw it out. In long run you really are better staying with some quality and made in the US, with exceptions we know.
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From the posts I've seen here regarding Gibsons returned and needing work, the quality control on the Chinese guitars may not be that far from Gibson's. And Gibson charges several times more for their output. I know bashing China is the popular thing right now, but their bang/buck ratio for guitars is probably superior to any US guitars, or at least equivalent. American workers can produce products superior, or at least equal to, any you can buy from anywhere in the world, and take pride in doing it as long as the employers pay and treat them fairly, but they don't react well to browbeating and mistreatment. What so many companies forget is that short-term profits do not relate to the long-term health of the company, and treating employees badly will inevitably result in inferior products and lower profits. If you believe that your employees are lazy and don't want to work, and intend to spend everything they make on booze, women, and movies, that's what you'll get. People tend to do what is expected of them. There are exceptions on both ends, but in the main, I believe that's true. And the larger the company, the more it expects employees to be bad workers. They reap what they sow.
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Mark, maybe you forget that not all of us live in the US and that there are some very good guitar builders here in Europe. Some of them can definitely produce quality instruments which are in no way inferior to US built guitars. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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not commenting on the guitar, but if your luthier did all that work and put Grovers, Gibson PUs, a guard, and a tailpiece on it for 500 bucks than I would love to know the name. Originally Posted by JB108
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For obvious reasons there are a lot of people that still can't wrap their brains around the fact that China makes some great guitars. Eastman got smart and opened a plant in California where everything built in China goes to - all electronics, setup and fret work is done in California, thus eliminating the old weakest links Eastman first had. I've had I think 7 Yunzhi/Mr Wu guitars (the Yunzi's were built while Mr Wu worked for them). I gifted a few of them to very happy jazz players. Yeah they needed new electronics and some fret work but none of them cost me more than 2k out the door (with high end Duncan or Bartolini pickups). And most of them I bought when I didn't have the money to buy some of the very high end guitars I now own. Some people can't afford the fancy American guitars.
And Yunzhi/Wu still make custom guitars in a reasonable amount of time. The OP's new guitar is fantastic and it'll make him happy a very long time. No matter what the nay sayers say...
Big
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True I was reallying thinking import China/Korean Guitars. Europe has some great makers for sure and I have one an Elferink Excalibur. Although it appears these are handmade that OP bought. Originally Posted by JazzNote
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Also- 20 fret neck! Good job JB108. Bet that sounds nice and warm and fat plugged in.
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I think that the main issue is that one would think that since Gibson has a long history of guitar building the work they do should be top notch all the time. I guess that isn't always the case. However it did help open the door for people to shop these Chinese custom builds. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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I can't see the photos. All I see is a photobucket error for each photo listed.
Those of us who purchase these custom Chinese made archtops do so for personal enjoyment. Period. There is zero concern about resell, and why should there be, when one has the opportunity to have a custom guitar produced to their personal specs, at a cost that fits their budget? There is zero shame in that.
If like some of us, you prefer 18" archtops, especially one at 3.75" depth, there is no reference luthier in the west that would produce such a guitar, and if you found such a luthier the cost of that archtop would likely be 4 to 5 times the cost, if not more, of a Chinese made custom archtop.
Comparing the finished standard of a new western made custom archtop to an archtop made in China is a false equivalency comparison, imo.
These Chinese made archtops have been a part of this forum for some 6 years or more. It's extremely well documented here in this forum that any archtop produced in China will require additional finish work.
Grinding ones axe on another's NGD is bad form.
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At minimum you owe the man an apology. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
No kidding. The nerve of you man...
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In the words of Mary Poppins: Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious! Originally Posted by JB108
This is the guitar that was advertised at Musoo website:
Attachment 48580
This is the custom build result when it arrived at my place:
Attachment 48581
And this is the final result after all extra work done (rewiring, new pickups, fret work etc.):
Attachment 48582
Gorgeous guitar there JB108! That's stunning! I love the shape, and the smokey Sunburst finish. Thank you for reposting the photos! How does it sound? I apologize if I overlooked this, but what is the depth of the guitar?
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2B, I dragged these photos to my desktop and repost them, hopefully you can see them.
Thanks for standing up for the OP, this would be a cold heart f-ing place if new guys got treated like he did today.
Big
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Thank you BM! Just look at the woods! The photos say "you know you want to play me!" Stunning result! Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
2B, I dragged these photos to my desktop and repost them, hopefully you can see them.
Thanks for standing up for the OP, this would be a cold heart f-ing place if new guys got treated like he did today.
Big
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Reading your first post, my impression was that it was "positive" as the important aspects were well done, and the "cons" were almost what you'd expect on this type of purchase. Originally Posted by JB108
I'm actually very happy to see that guitar, and read your impressions, because that same maker just shipped me a guitar today! My purchase was less planned than your custom order, I had the desire for a new semi hollow, 335 type of guitar, and they had some ready to ship. I acted on impulse, the cost was very low for the build as they described (sic):
Nitro finish
Body: semi-hollow
Top: Solid
Back & side: laminated
Fret: stainless
Fingerboard:ebony
Pickup: Epi-pro from korea
Tuner: Gro from korea
Binding: maple wood
I expect to change tailpiece, pickups, wiring.. but I have all those parts on hand, and my own labor is OK.
Really, for $399 shipped (I was only bidder on ebay), I will be very happy if the basic guitar is good. I did see they offered several hand made archtops, which encouraged me to take some risk with their inexpensive solid top semi. But honestly, I had seen no real feedback about their instruments, so I appreciate your post describing the custom non-cutaway. Your guitar looks great, I hope I have some luck with what they sent to me today. I do have Gibsons and other fine guitars, but today Gibson is selling acrylic inlays on >$2500 laminated guitars, which saves them maybe <$20 versus real mother-of-pearl. If Musoo assembles an inexpensive guitar with the woods I wanted, and do it with some level of skill, I want to try it. I'm not fooling myself that it is much more than it is, it just was something I wanted to try.
John
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RE Musoo, I'd never heard of the Musoo branding before today. But it's not uncommon to have a Chinese guitar built and then see that guitar appear as an offering on the Alibaba site.
There was a guitar I purchased via a local craigslist ad whereby the seller had commissioned Yunzhi create a custom build along the lines of a 20's-30's L4.
That guitar was a one off. But sure enough, it appears on the alibaba site.
Yunzhi Fully Handmade Solid Wood Archtop Acoustic Jazz Guitar - Buy Acoustic Jazz Guitar,Handmade Guitar,Solid Wood Guitar Product on Alibaba.com
Great guitar, that remains in tune, straight neck, that maintains the lowest playing action, and is clearly the loudest 16" archtop I've yet to own.
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I was shopping Alibaba before I snagged the Musoo semi off ebay, and it appeared that there were many sellers who were offering copy guitars that actually don't get built before someone purchases. Then they do a mad scramble and get someone to create the fake so they can ship it out within the Alibaba allowed "order processing time"
Sure there were real makers on there as well, but you can find a scary amount of fraudulent guitars with Gibson headstock MADE IN USA imprint. Musoo seemed more legit, they showed higher end hand made guitars, and could be found on ebay
I'm not ruling out a future Alibaba transaction, it just seemed like there were many more pictures of guitars that did not yet exist, per the answers I got back from a couple sellers "we need more time to finish guitar"
So that CS-356 for a couple hundred bucks instead of $4.5k needs ten days to build and ship? I'm guessing there's some compromises made to rush that out.
The Wu and Yunzhi names are likely to still be spoken well of decades from now, unlike the counterfeiters who really are not in the same business at all.
John
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Mr Wu for sure builds a fine archtop! Originally Posted by john_a
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Happy NGD! And thanks for the review.
I actually bounced recently on an ebay deal too. I was looking for older Byrdland copies on ebay and this one new, Chinese made model caught my eye and made me do an impulse buy. I will also do a full report when I get it, so people can see what kind of quality we're dealing with here.
I'm expecting similar issues, so basically all setup and electronics have to be redone but I can do that myself, even some fret dressing if needed so I'm just hoping that a) the neck is straight and the truss rod is working b) the overall build quality is at least "ok". Which is pretty much the same I expect from any non-custom builder
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