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I am going to do this NGD in two separate posts. First I want to tell my story with ES-175's (This is my 8th). Second I want to tell my story with the CME "floor models" and I will review the guitar and provide pictures.
Here is Part one:
In 1973 I was turned on to jazz by a high school friend who also played guitar. He turned me on to Wes Montgomery and Joe Pass, two players who have been my lifelong jazz guitar heroes ever since. I wanted an L-5 and a ES-175, but as a 15 year old high school student both seemed out of reach. A 1970 ES-175 came up in the local paper for $329. I had about $150 saved. I asked my mom if she would loan me the rest of the money and I planned on selling my electric guitar (a lawsuit SG copy) and my acoustic guitar (A 1968 Guild M-20) to pay her back.She agreed. The guitar was in mint condition and I bought it. I paid the asking price (my negotiating skills were not yet fully developed) and sold my two other guitars to repay the loan. The Cherry sunburst early 1970 ES-175 (it had the orange label inside) was to be my only guitar for several years. It was a superb example.
In 1979, I had a hankering to play in a rock band and wanted a Les Paul. I was 21 and funds were tight so I figured on selling the 175 to raise money for a Les Paul. A guy offered me a 78 Les Paul Standard and a 79 hardtail Stratocaster for the 175. I made the trade (Which I think was in my favor). As soon as the 175 left, I missed her.
By 1983 I was playing jazz again. I tried a 335, but the nut was too narrow and the tone too thin for my taste. In 1984 I found another 175.It was a 1982 model in perfect shape and I scored it for $500. It was an early 82 and had maple back and sides, was three tone sunburst on both sides and had single ring plastic Kluson tuners. It was a superb guitar.
In 1988, I had a business failure and decided to pay my debts as opposed to filing bankruptcy (that is how I roll, my word is my bond).Some assets had to go and the 82 175 got sold in 1989. In 1990 I started practicing law and music was placed on the backburner for 12 years. I still miss that 82.
In 2002, I decided to take up jazz guitar again and wanted another 175. I found a mint condition 1977 175 on EBay. It was a brown sunburst, had the volute and had a maple neck. I played it for several years as my main guitar. I never liked the color, the volute and found it to be a tad bright at times (the Shaw PUPS and Hog neck on my 82 made that guitar a warmer guitar than the 77 with its T-top PUPS and maple neck). I decided to replace the 77 with another 175 that suited me better.
In 2004 I found a single PUP 1967 175 that was a factory second (the sunburst was far from perfect. I played it for a bit but found the neck to be too narrow (just like my old 1968 ES-335). The narrow nut was not for me. I sold the 67.
in 2006 I scored a 1963 ES-175D (three tone sunburst) from Heritage auctions. It needed restoration I figured that one day I would restore it, but my search continued.
In 2008, I bought a new 175 in vintage sunburst from a Gibson Dealer at wholesale (they sold it as a "floor model"). I did not like the neck profile and was not crazy about the pick sunburst. I sold it very soon after getting it.
Later in 2008 I bought a 1997 ES-175 in Blonde from my local Craigslist. This was it. Perfect action, neck, tone. I sold the 77. I have been playing the 97 as my main gigging guitar ever since. I sometimes miss the 77 (I played her on many, many gigs)
Earlier this year, I restored the 63 (and after restoring it, I found some misrepresentations on Heritage's part. Be careful buying from them) so I now had two excellent 175's. I was set for life.
Then the CME deals came up.
END of Part one.Last edited by Stringswinger; 12-05-2017 at 11:01 PM.
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12-05-2017 10:29 PM
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Part two:
When the CME deals came up, I had been reducing my guitar collection with the goal of getting down to 12 guitars. I made it as far as 13 and ran into a brick wall. Then with the sweet CME deals available, my "twelve-step program" ran into more trouble. I bought an ES-330 that was a great deal and a great guitar. Up to 14 guitars I went. That was from the first batch of guitars that CME had for sale. By the time they were on their third batch, I started thinking about buying a second guitar as opportunity seemed to be knocking.
I really do not like semi-hollows (I have tried many) and the 275 just does not interest me. I had the 330 and thought, why not get another 175? I have owned almost every iteration from the early 60's on (the 50's models do not interest me) and I thought that I would try a new one. I like Blondes. I called David at CME and offered him $2400 for a blonde 175. He came down to $2500 and would not budge. I walked. I thought about buying a Blonde figured 335 (they are the easiest guitars in the whole ES group to resell), but while waiting for the Blonde 335's to come in, I changed my mind. Having owned three 335's and half a dozen other semi hollows, They are not my thing. Why buy one to resell? I am not sure there is that much profit in these CME deals for resale (though I am pretty sure that you can get all of your money back and maybe make a C-note or two).
Then I got an E-mail from CME about their Cyber Monday sale. 15% off the advertised price for the Blonde 175. I did the math and that came out to $2290.75. Less than I offered them a month earlier. I pulled the trigger and today received the guitar.
The guitar is a 2017 according to the serial number and is without any cosmetic flaw whatsoever. I think this is the same guitar that is advertised all over the web for $4800 from authorized Gibson dealers (the handful that are left). She weighs 7.6 pounds, has a dead straight neck, low action, perfect fretwork and was packed extremely well. Tone is great (I would like it better with 12 gauge flats, I am sure). The intonation is perfect (maybe the pinned bridge is a good idea?).
Compared to my 97 and my 63, this guitar is just not as good (for me). It is a full pound heavier than my 63 and about 11 ounces heavier than my 97. The flame, while pretty is not anywhere as deep or 3D as on my 97. And the neck profile is too chunky for my taste. 50's neck profiles are the flavor of this millennium and I am a 60's neck kind of guy. The heel is pretty large as well (just like on my 2008). I am thinking that unless it is a early 60's reissue archtop (I doubt Gibson will be doing very many of those), I am out of the new Gibson game. Which is OK as I already have all the Gibson's I need or want. I still think Gibsons from the early 60's or mid 90's are the best. As for this guitar, I will play her for a bit, but when I am doing my next herd thinning (I will reach 12 guitars some day!), this one will find a new owner.
Here is a picture of the new 175:
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Here is the new 175 with the 63 and the 97 (my tablet camera distorts size a bit, they are all the same size):
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Beautiful guitar! It's a ringer for my '06. I understand your position, as you have multiple options. I would simply suggest you try it on a gig or two. You may find that some of the extra heft is feedback resistance. I'm not talking about in-your-ear feedback, but a subtler resistance to tonal changes at greater volumes. Although your point on the neck issue is probably a paramount consideration. In any case, Congratulations on your NGD, and play it (or anything else that comes to hand) in good health!
Last edited by citizenk74; 12-06-2017 at 12:42 AM. Reason: clarity
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great stuff...a life of/with guitars!!!
we all have had different journeys... but same love
cheers
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My god SS, that guitar is gorgeous.
I am surprised that the neck is too chunky. The one I just got from Vinny has an absolutely perfect neck.
I guess variety I’d not the spice of life.
Sorry bro.
Joe D
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JD, that is why I own the Heritage built DA replica and you do not. You like the 50's neck, I like the 60's neck. The good news for you is your taste is in style, mine is not.
Originally Posted by Max405
Styles and tastes change. The 60's neck will come back at some point and when it does, my old age savings will take a hit.
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SS,
Thanks for sharing your story - very interesting. I have the same sentiments about the old vs new 175’s ( I also like 60’s necks ) and passed on getting a CME one for similar reasons you mentioned .
While these modern versions are still very nice sounding guitars. They are best experienced plugged in - which of course is the intended purpose.
Since I mainly enjoy guitars for their acoustic properties (and only occasionally plug in ) the early period single PU 175’s provided a broader based experience for my needs.
I wish Gibson would offer a single pickup version of this model again.
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Great point bro. My GJS and HJS have slightly slimmer necks and I thought my 175 has a very similar neck. I honestly thought the necks in these 175’s are a little on the slimmer side. Probably not slim enough. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
JD, that is why I own the Heritage built DA replica and you do not. You like the 50's neck, I like the 60's neck. The good news for you is your taste is in style, mine is not.
Styles and tastes change. The 60's neck will come back at some point and when it does, my old age savings will take a hit.
I remember the HDA neck was very similar to the JP20. I really wished I could have gotten along with those great guitars.
JD
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I think Joe Pass liked the 60's neck too. Hence the slim neck on the JP20 (just like on his 1962 ES-175) Originally Posted by Max405
I do like the new sunburst that yours has, it is a cross between the three tone burst of the early 60's and the cherry sunburst of the late 60's. The Blonde on mine will look better in 20 years when the lacquer yellows some (and I will be 80 years old!). The dark natural that they did on my 330 is perfect right out of the box.
I like keystone buttoned Kluson tuners way more than the Grovers that they put on this new model. But the Grovers do work well (they add a few ounces of weight).
I do have to say that I think my new 175 was made recently, for CME (I would bet serious money that this guitar was not a return) and it is flawless with perfect fit and finish. If someone likes the 50's Gibson neck profile, this is the deal of a lifetime. Step right up, because when they are gone, I doubt that they will come back at this price, ever.
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Thanks K. Originally Posted by citizenk74
Beautiful guitar! It's a ringer for my '06. I understand your position, as you have multiple options. I would simply suggest you try it on a gig or two. You may find that some of the extra heft is feedback resistance. I'm not talking about in-your-ear feedback, but a subtler resistance to tonal changes at greater volumes. Although your point on the neck issue probably a paramount consideration. In any case, Congratulations on your NGD, and play it (or anything else that comes to hand) in good health!
I will keep this one for a bit. It is very much like my 2008 (and by extension your 2006). I wanted to see if any changes were made in the last decade and the answer is not many. Grovers instead of Klusons, a musical note inscribed in the trussrod cover, red spruce braces (instead of the usual Sitka) and a pinned bridge. And no more shroud in the case!
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60's necks. You, me and Joe Pass. We are in good company! Originally Posted by QAman
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No shroud? There goes that "Ta-Da!" moment at the gig! Oh well....
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I always use a gig bag. I have to rely on my playing for those "ta-da" moments it seems..... Originally Posted by citizenk74
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Hey SS, I got my CME 175 today too!
Mine is a vintage burst model. Close to perfect (there is one tiny flaw in the finish)
but overall I'm super happy with the guitar.
I love the thick neck -- it reminds me of my '92 135. A pleasant surprise IMO.
Also, I prefer Grover tuners over Klusons -- go figure. This is my first ever 175 -- and truly I never expected I could afford one until this deal came up, so I'm mostly feeling really lucky that such a great deal came around, and the shipping came through OK, and the guitar plays so good. Of course, this is only day one, so time will tell.
I sorta wish there was a pink blanket in the case too
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Congrats LTG! Originally Posted by Longways to Go
Hey SS, I got my CME 175 today too!
Mine is a vintage burst model. Close to perfect (there is one tiny flaw in the finish)
but overall I'm super happy with the guitar.
I love the thick neck -- it reminds me of my '92 135. A pleasant surprise IMO.
Also, I prefer Grover tuners over Klusons -- go figure. This is my first ever 175 -- and truly I never expected I could afford one until this deal came up, so I'm mostly feeling really lucky that such a great deal came around, and the shipping came through OK, and the guitar plays so good. Of course, this is only day one, so time will tell.
I sorta wish there was a pink blanket in the case too
If you dig the thick neck, you should be over the moon. These are fine guitars at amazingly low prices. I am quite happy with the deal. And being 2 for 2 with these CME guitars (some guys have gotten bad ones), I am quitting this game as a winner.
Sounds like you won as well.
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That was a bit of nice history about your foray into guitar, you seem to have played and recognised them all and know exactly what you want to get your tone, i will remember this if i ever get the chance to try a 175, i really did not know the many differences between the models.
You are an honest guy, kudos.
John.
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Great story, SS
That was fun to read. I also envy your experience with all those 175s. Mine, also a CME, was the first 175 I ever played..!
It is great that you had already a couple of real keepers so, while this newest one may not end up joining those in the stand will for sure add to your experience with the model, which is also a great thing (unless you'd have done a terrible deal, which was not the case).
But I want to say this: in the case of mine, it was a funny thing - I like light guitars (love my SG) and this thing is heavy! I like thin necks and this one is really chunky. I like easy access to the higher frets and with this one it isn't properly easy.. I hugely prefer flatwounds and ended up stringing this one with rounds.. but the fact is that in spite of it all OR maybe because of it all (how all the elements blend together) this guitar is a joy to play - feel and tone, with an amp or just strumming on the couch. In my case it does the job and when I pick it up to play .. I play and don't spend time thinking about the guitar, you know?
Enjoy you guitar(s) and keep us posted about it, how the whole thing unfold with this new one
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It's a good thing you're not closer to me, I would have been tempted to trade my sainted figured 1995 for it :-) Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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What a great story, SS. I've bought and sold a lot of guitars in the 58 years or so that I've been playing--archtops, thinlines and solid bodies; including a custom made archtop from a well known luthier.
What I am sure of is this: You either "bond" with a guitar or you don't. After a few years of being parked in it's case, I sold the custom archtop through "Mandolin Brothers" because I never felt comfortable playing it. Likewise with the pricey solid bodies.
As you described in your post, you've owned and played a lot of great guitars and had some similar experiences. In fact, I'm sure many of our forum colleagues feel the same way: you either instantly feel comfortable with a particular guitar or you don't. That's why I liked reading about your guitar "trek". You've sort of validated my experience.
Keep hunting and keep us posted.
Tony D.
I
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I really appreciated and enjoyed your story and your review. It's very rare that someone can write a review that says "this instrument is essentially perfect, even amazing but no, it's not ideal for me and is not better than what I have." So often the latter judgment an cloud the former description. Anybody liking the features you don't care for about this guitar knows they will get a splendid specimen. If I didn't already have a recent CME 175 figured (SB) I might try a deal with you. I'm long on sunbursts and short on blondes!
Your reasonable, nuanced descriptions in the context of your extensive experience give you a ton of credibility, at least for me.
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The difference between objectivity and subjectivity. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
This is one of my biggest gripes with forums in general. Far too often when someone doesn't like something, they trash it. Though they don't know it (and probably don't care anyway), it makes the poster look bad, and it makes getting an unclouded opinion difficult. "The 2015s are terrible, their wide necks suck."
Kudos to Stringswinger.
Absolutely! Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Well for sure some comments on the web hold little water, and they are less than useful. Originally Posted by wmachine
Then again when players paint with a wide brush stroke, good or bad their opinions can weigh heavily on other players who are of the same mind, for example: Those that really dislike slim necks would appreciate someone saying something like: "The 60's ES-150 ultra slim necks suck" and a comment like this is in no way (IMO) discrediting the poster.
Certain things like git weight, and neck profile are not very subjective and to some are deal breakers.
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Thank you for the education! I always thought I liked thin necks like my wide thin PRS, Strat, and GB10se but this 2016 CME 175 feels so natural to my hands that it has me re-thinking my neck preferences. Maybe I’ve always been a closeted baseball bat lover and was just afraid to explore that realm.
Last edited by TedBPhx; 12-06-2017 at 04:05 PM.
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Marco too bad 335's aren't your bag. CME has those nice 1969 335's with the 60's neck, chrome (not nickel) hardware, trapeze tailpiece, top hat knobs, and that nice 60's cherry sunburst. I had a 1969 335 years ago. That one was special. They do have the narrow nut though I believe ?
when the CME deals are gone you will have no problem offing that 175 here.
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