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  1. #151

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    I put an ABR with brass inserts on mine, just for the heck of it.
    The new inserts needed grooves cut for the strings, so I took this as an opportunity to adjust the high E string inward just a tad rather than mess with the nut. Easy tweak and worked just great. And yes the brass softens the tone quite a bit. Nothing like wood, but a pleasant shift toward a softer tone. Nice thing about messing with the bridge is that it's easy enough to go back to stock if you don't like the change!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    Ah, those pinned bridges. Gibson did this when they started factory stringing with .10 gauge sets to encourage the "I'm a cowboy. ..on a steel horse I'll ride" folks to try a 175. Didn't want the bridge shifting under a power chord.

    PITA, pinned bridges, IMO.

    Having lived in Jersey and endured my ex wife's fixation with Bruce and BonJovi I got a great laugh out of that crack... Thank You !!!

  4. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ

    Having lived in Jersey and endured my ex wife's fixation with Bruce and BonJovi I got a great laugh out of that crack... Thank You !!!
    My wife likes Ritchie Sambora..

  5. #154

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    Guys I have be honest.
    i think it sucks what Gibson did. Dumping guitars on their paying customers with a known fault is bullshit.
    However, with some mild ingenuity, and zero money spent for the adjustments, I feel like I got an absolutely great guitar.
    After moving the high E string nut slot toward the B string by the 1/64 of an inch and sliding the bridge over toward the bass side as much as the pinned bridge will allow, my guitar is a absolute dream to play. I don’t slide off the neck at all.

    This could easily be my only guitar, but what fun would that be!

    At some point I will get a new proper nut and get the board refretted, with jumbo mediums but until then, this guitar is loved, played and treated like the premium benchmark guitar it was supposed to be.

    Joe D

  6. #155

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    Nothing new with Gibson. They have been doing this for decades. When I joined this forum I was flamed by Patrick for bringing up this true fact.

    On the flip side Crimson made guitars have never been better. Though the old tone woods were better, the build quality on a new L5 is impeccable.

  7. #156

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    To be fair, Gibson sold the entire Memphis inventory to CME. Some of these guitars were defective, but it was up to CME to make the call as to what to do. Gibson did not sell defective guitars to any end users, CME did.

    CME could have sold the defective guitars at a super low price with full disclosures and let the bargain hunters fix them themselves. CME could have fixed the defective ones in house before selling them to end users. Or CME could have done what they did, namely, ship the defective ones to end users and if the buyers complained, take them back or make a partial refund to cover repair costs for the end user. I think a business decision was made at CME to do what they did in the name of profit. A few buyers suffered inconvenience as a result, but in the big picture, many guitarists got the deal of a lifetime.

    Life is never perfect, nor fair. I would say that on balance, what Gibson and CME did with this blow out has been pretty damn positive. And while I have sympathy for the buyers who suffered some inconvenience , I am feeling like the cat who ate the canary.

    Gibson ES-175 Figured-cme-guitars-jpg

  8. #157

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    Some rolled a 7 and some snake eyes. Actually CME was straight up with me on the get-go stating it was going to be a dice roll. My success rate with CME was 60% though not out a dime and some great guitars at a unbelievable price. The leg work was worth it to me.

    My entire history though with Gibson has run in the 60-70% success rate. Like I said nothing new with Gibson.

    It is all over the news. Looks like bankruptcy is eminent.

  9. #158

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    I'm pretty blown away with the sound and playability of the 175 Vos. It's a guitar I wouldn't have bought if not for the sale. I wish now I decided earlier and got a blonde. Stringswinger how does the sound of the VOS compare with the figured 175?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    To be fair, Gibson sold the entire Memphis inventory to CME. Some of these guitars were defective, but it was up to CME to make the call as to what to do. Gibson did not sell defective guitars to any end users, CME did.

    CME could have sold the defective guitars at a super low price with full disclosures and let the bargain hunters fix them themselves. CME could have fixed the defective ones in house before selling them to end users. Or CME could have done what they did, namely, ship the defective ones to end users and if the buyers complained, take them back or make a partial refund to cover repair costs for the end user. I think a business decision was made at CME to do what they did in the name of profit. A few buyers suffered inconvenience as a result, but in the big picture, many guitarists got the deal of a lifetime.

    Life is never perfect, nor fair. I would say that on balance, what Gibson and CME did with this blow out has been pretty damn positive. And while I have sympathy for the buyers who suffered some inconvenience , I am feeling like the cat who ate the canary.

    Gibson ES-175 Figured-cme-guitars-jpg

  10. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiboyny
    I'm pretty blown away with the sound and playability of the 175 Vos. It's a guitar I wouldn't have bought if not for the sale. I wish now I decided earlier and got a blonde. Stringswinger how does the sound of the VOS compare with the figured 175?
    The VOS is the better guitar. The tone is much richer and there is an "acoustic" component to the sound. The figured is an electric guitar, pure and simple. That said, the figured, while a pound heavier, is a fine guitar in it's own right and with the genuine pearl inlays and the figured woods, she is a true work of art.

  11. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Nothing new with Gibson. They have been doing this for decades. When I joined this forum I was flamed by Patrick for bringing up this true fact.
    On the flip side Crimson made guitars have never been better. Though the old tone woods were better, the build quality on a new L5 is impeccable.
    thanks for NOT bringing up that I was a part of that too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    To be fair, Gibson sold the entire Memphis inventory to CME. Some of these guitars were defective, but it was up to CME to make the call as to what to do. Gibson did not sell defective guitars to any end users, CME did.
    CME could have sold the defective guitars at a super low price with full disclosures and let the bargain hunters fix them themselves. CME could have fixed the defective ones in house before selling them to end users. Or CME could have done what they did, namely, ship the defective ones to end users and if the buyers complained, take them back or make a partial refund to cover repair costs for the end user. I think a business decision was made at CME to do what they did in the name of profit. A few buyers suffered inconvenience as a result, but in the big picture, many guitarists got the deal of a lifetime.

    Life is never perfect, nor fair. I would say that on balance, what Gibson and CME did with this blow out has been pretty damn positive. And while I have sympathy for the buyers who suffered some inconvenience , I am feeling like the cat who ate the canary.
    i guess you are right SS. And I wasn’t on the communicating end of the transaction, Vinny was so I should pipe down. But no one could defend that these guitars were manufactured by Gibson and were committed to inventory after they passed QC inspection. I hope they are listening and take a good hard look at what we are talking about. And when they reorganize, I pray that they correct 3 main flaws;
    Fix customer service
    Fix Quality Control
    Make nice with the Pass family and make a real Joe Pass model.

    Quote Originally Posted by skiboyny
    I'm pretty blown away with the sound and playability of the 175 Vos. It's a guitar I wouldn't have bought if not for the sale. I wish now I decided earlier and got a blonde. Stringswinger how does the sound of the VOS compare with the figured 175?
    skiboyny, I am glad you got a good one out of the gate. Are you keeping the VOS treatment intact or are you polishing it off like I would?

  12. #161

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    I’m actually in the middle of reading the “Epiphone guitar book “ written by Walter Carter and the similarities of what is currently taking place at Gibson Brands is like Deja Vu.

    Dealer liquidation’s and subsidy sell offs - which ultimately led to the take over of Norlin by Rooney Pace , a New York Brokerage firm. It was shortly thereafter that Henry , Gary and Dave picked up Gibson for 5 million.

    Could this be happening all over again Gibson ES-175 Figured.

    Will Gibson Brands be controlled by a Brokerage firm that might spin off Gibson guitars ?

    Could the new owners of Gibson guitars be hanging in wings like Henry , Gary and Dave?

    Gibson guitars needs an infusion of passionate leadership to make “ Gibson great again “ - and I’m wishing them the best.

  13. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405
    thanks for NOT bringing up that I was a part of that too.

    i guess you are right SS. And I wasn’t on the communicating end of the transaction, Vinny was so I should pipe down. But no one could defend that these guitars were manufactured by Gibson and were committed to inventory after they passed QC inspection. I hope they are listening and take a good hard look at what we are talking about. And when they reorganize, I pray that they correct 3 main flaws;
    Fix customer service
    Fix Quality Control
    Make nice with the Pass family and make a real Joe Pass model.



    skiboyny, I am glad you got a good one out of the gate. Are you keeping the VOS treatment intact or are you polishing it off like I would?
    It's a real pleasure to play and hear. That surprised me. The VOS is mostly gone. I have to take the thing apart to finish it up properly, but I haven't been able to stop playing the damn thing. Anyone interested WD-40 takes the junk off the nickel with no effort. I would have gotten one of these long ago if they offered it without the VOS treatment. I just want it to age naturally. To each his own though.

  14. #163

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    Gibson has been using that out forever. Let the dealer deal with it. CME followed the Gibson philosophy of business to the letter. They sent out what they had to see what the buyer would bear. If the buyer was happy they were happy, if not they sent out another. If the buyer was more discriminating they were a bit more careful the second time around. It all works if the price is right. If it was closer to retail not so much. It has been working for years until now. If you have bought a few new Gibson you know this to be true. We are in a different time. Gibson doesn't have the captive market they once did. Funny thing is they seem to have the production down right for the most part, they loose it in the final set-up stages. That's where it takes human expertise and that comes at a price. Up until now they have deemed it in investment not worth making. It's also a sad commentary on today's american worker. I'm just here for my check...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    To be fair, Gibson sold the entire Memphis inventory to CME. Some of these guitars were defective, but it was up to CME to make the call as to what to do. Gibson did not sell defective guitars to any end users, CME did.

    CME could have sold the defective guitars at a super low price with full disclosures and let the bargain hunters fix them themselves. CME could have fixed the defective ones in house before selling them to end users. Or CME could have done what they did, namely, ship the defective ones to end users and if the buyers complained, take them back or make a partial refund to cover repair costs for the end user. I think a business decision was made at CME to do what they did in the name of profit. A few buyers suffered inconvenience as a result, but in the big picture, many guitarists got the deal of a lifetime.

    Life is never perfect, nor fair. I would say that on balance, what Gibson and CME did with this blow out has been pretty damn positive. And while I have sympathy for the buyers who suffered some inconvenience , I am feeling like the cat who ate the canary.

    Gibson ES-175 Figured-cme-guitars-jpg

  15. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiboyny
    Gibson has been using that out forever. Let the dealer deal with it. CME followed the Gibson philosophy of business to the letter. They sent out what they had to see what the buyer would bear. If the buyer was happy they were happy, if not they sent out another. If the buyer was more discriminating they were a bit more careful the second time around. It all works if the price is right. If it was closer to retail not so much. It has been working for years until now. If you have bought a few new Gibson you know this to be true. We are in a different time. Gibson doesn't have the captive market they once did. Funny thing is they seem to have the production down right for the most part, they loose it in the final set-up stages. That's where it takes human expertise and that comes at a price. Up until now they have deemed it in investment not worth making. It's also a sad commentary on today's american worker. I'm just here for my check...
    While I think our culture has degraded quite a bit, causing less than stellar attitudes in the workplace, I would blame management more than the American worker for flaws in our manufactured products. Pride in one's job must come from the top. When I was in business, with dozens of employees, I would often tell my employees that I was only a "manager", the real boss being the customer, for if we did not do a good job for the customer, he/she will go elsewhere and we all end up getting fired.

    Regarding guitars, it could be argued that it is the responsibility of the dealer to do the final setup work. Just buying and selling widgets for a profit adds no value. When a dealer does do the necessary final setup work , they earn their profit. That is how capitalism is supposed to work. All are rewarded for hard work. Those who innovate and/or take risks get the biggest rewards. And without competition, prices go up and quality goes down. Gibson, like many giant companies is not without blame to be sure, but neither do they deserve all the blame in many cases.

  16. #165

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    I completely disagree. The guitar should never leave the Gibson factory with major issues like a bad nut, frets, or a tailrise and then force the dealers to sell these substandard guitars or risk losing there dealership license with Gibson.
    It is stronghold tactics that Gibson has been doing for years to dealers. And when a dealer finally draws a line in the sand Gibson dumps them 100% guaranteed. This is exactly what happened to Gelb, Daves, and Rainbow. They sent back too many turds guitars right back to Gibson.

    A dealer needs to make a good profit. That is not going to happen if they have to do a fret and nut job on a new guitar. Not to mention selling it new with warranty.

    The only setup a dealer should have to do is a trussrod adjustment, string height, tune and clean it up pretty.
    I personally saw Gelb Music receive over 20 335's with not 1 trussrod that worked or they were tightened to bottom.

    The middle man (CME) is in a tough place. 2 sides of the fence and both must be pleased or else.

  17. #166

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    I almost agree with you pride should most certainly start at the top. I think their is plenty of "blame" to go around top to bottom. People's values have eroded to close to non existent.
    As far as the dealer bearing the responsibility of set up. I can agree but the guitar must be capable of set up. Straight necks level fretwork. That seems to be missing at times.
    In the end I still think they have a great product, with super strong resale, and that's worth saving. I hope they can make the moves that will allow them to remain a profitable force in the music industry moving forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    While I think our culture has degraded quite a bit, causing less than stellar attitudes in the workplace, I would blame management more than the American worker for flaws in our manufactured products. Pride in one's job must come from the top. When I was in business, with dozens of employees, I would often tell my employees that I was only a "manager", the real boss being the customer, for if we did not do a good job for the customer, he/she will go elsewhere and we all end up getting fired.

    Regarding guitars, it could be argued that it is the responsibility of the dealer to do the final setup work. Just buying and selling widgets for a profit adds no value. When a dealer does do the necessary final setup work , they earn their profit. That is how capitalism is supposed to work. All are rewarded for hard work. Those who innovate and/or take risks get the biggest rewards. And without competition, prices go up and quality goes down. Gibson, like many giant companies is not without blame to be sure, but neither do they deserve all the blame in many cases.

  18. #167

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    I'm not sure that the poor quality is entirely, or even mostly, the result of lack of workers' pride. It takes experience to make a top quality guitar, and experience takes time to acquire. If the company has high turnover in the workforce, that results in lower quality products. And high employee turnover is the result of poor management. I don't personally know Gibson's turnover rate, but I've heard that it's high. I certainly won't stand by that with my lack of verified information, but I find it a reasonable explanation for consistently poor quality. Too many companies now try to get rid of more senior employees because they have to pay them more, and lower wages trumps quality products for them. It's shortsighted business practice, but few businesses seem to care about the long term. Salary and bonus/stock option plans for management keeps management focused solely on the short term stock price and profits, not the long term. That has hurt American businesses badly in the past decade or so, and seems destined to continue.

  19. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiboyny
    I almost agree with you pride should most certainly start at the top. I think their is plenty of "blame" to go around top to bottom. People's values have eroded to close to non existent.
    As far as the dealer bearing the responsibility of set up. I can agree but the guitar must be capable of set up. Straight necks level fretwork. That seems to be missing at times.
    In the end I still think they have a great product, with super strong resale, and that's worth saving. I hope they can make the moves that will allow them to remain a profitable force in the music industry moving forward.
    I agree with you and Vinny that the dealer should not be responsible beyond a certain point. Guitars with serious neck/fret issues should never leave the factory.

  20. #169

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    SS, bravo brother on the proper way to handle a disagreement.

    I took my 175 to my tech this morning. I asked him about a refret. He said I was crazy.
    He said this guitar has NO problem. He said he see’s seen brand new Martins and Fenders come in all the time with frets that are 10x worse.
    Vinny, thank you for a wonderful guitar. It’s my baby.
    Joe D
    ps, he did say the guy who messed with the nut is a hack. He told me to bring it back to him in a couple of weeks when he’s not too busy and he will make me a proper nut..

  21. #170

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    No matter what I say about Gibson I will always love the guitars they make. Not to mention their American heritage like Harley Davidson. I am just going to believe that this financial woe that they are in presently in is going to reorganize the company into a lean mean kick ass company again building the best guitars in the world.
    This can really turn into a win-win. A lot of times doom and gloom turns into a blessing.
    I am still on team Gibson till the game is over.

  22. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    No matter what I say about Gibson I will always love the guitars they make. Not to mention their American heritage like Harley Davidson. I am just going to believe that this financial woe that they are in presently in is going to reorganize the company into a leak mean kick ass company again building the best guitars in the world.
    This can really turn into a win-win. A lot of times doom and gloom turns into a blessing.
    I am still on team Gibson till the game is over.
    You and me both my friend. I will be riding Harleys and playing Gibsons till the reaper shows up. Two great examples of American exceptionalism (along with things like Jazz).