What amp should I use to get a warm Pat Martino sound out of a solid body ?

**TK_AK** · 09-20-2009, 09:04 AM

Hello

I own a PRS Santana MD, it's a solid body electric guitar, and I use it thought a Rocktron Voodu Valve with my AKG headphones most of the time.

I can't get what i want with the Voodu, mostly because it's a pain in the ass to configure but it also seems unable to deliver a good jazz sound.

I know that they are similar devices but jazz oriented like the Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight or the Acoustic Image Clarus ... but can we get a jazz sound out of them with a solid body ?

Jazz sound ? Well I'm digging mainly a Pat Martino sound, but I also like Wes, Grant Green and many others sounds !

Maybe I will also have to change the guitar pick ups ? ...

Best regards,

TK.

" Why not start with your first post today and become an active part of The Jazz Guitar Forum now! " why not ?

**rio** · 09-20-2009, 11:09 AM

I know nothing about the pickups on a PRS but changing them might be worth pursuing if they are made with santana's tone in mind. Check out Henriksen JazzAmps, great tone whether I'm using an archtop or solidbody, really good for the kind of tone you are describing.

**derek** · 09-20-2009, 03:10 PM

I have had 4 PRS guitars, though not a Santana. In all cases I felt the pups were too hot for jazz. Last one I had was an Archtop. I replaced the neck with a Gibby Classic 57, which did the trick.

Pat is using flatwound .15s on his semihollow model, and it has Gibbo 57s on it. I have seen him in 3-4 different venues, and he tends to use whatever amp is available. He seems to get his sound from that guitar and his fingers, no matter the amp.

**TK_AK** · 09-20-2009, 04:16 PM

Thank you for your answers

Rio = > so I guess you are talking about this one Henriksen Guitar Amplifier: compact, solid state, small, inexpensive, powerful guitar amplifier Does it work well with headphones ?

It seems that they are really difficult to find in Europe (i'm french ...) but the dollar being really low it might not be a big problem.

Derek => about the pick ups I will try with a new head amp before considering changing them ... but I will remember the Gibson 57. I'm buying new strings right now ( DAddarioFretted Strings » Electric Strings » XL Chromes Flat Wound » ECG26 Chromes Medium 13-56 ).
I know that mr Martino carry with him an Acoustic Image Clarus, but I don't know if it is good for a solid body ... but yes his sound have a lot to do with his strong picking.

**derek** · 09-21-2009, 10:54 AM

Pat has carried around a Clarus, but he typically uses whatever the venue provides, which is often a JC120. Plenty of guys use the AI products for jazz, hollow, semihollow and solidbody. Lots of transparently clean tone with a ton of headroom.

**gary mitchell** · 09-21-2009, 09:24 PM

Iam almost 60yrs old and still lug around my JC 120 and just bought a new one. And when I play Bass I lug around a SWR head and a 210 cab and a 15cab. Some us guitar players are still men. Iam just kidding I just like that sound.

**TK_AK** · 09-22-2009, 05:48 AM

strings wont fit in the guitar, shit

2 or 3 days without strings on the guitar incomming

I'll have to ask PRS about the strings I can use with this guitar ...

**derek** · 09-22-2009, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by gary mitchell

Iam almost 60yrs old and still lug around my JC 120 and just bought a new one. And when I play Bass I lug around a SWR head and a 210 cab and a 15cab. Some us guitar players are still men. Iam just kidding I just like that sound.

JC120 and SWR head + 2 cabs? How's that back holding up Gary.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-22-2009, 11:17 AM

The Clarus+? 800 watts to drive a set of headphones?!

Check out the Phil Jones AG-100. It has a very clean, transparent sound. There are some sound clips on this page, including a Tele:

CUB AG-100 Guitar Amplifier

It has a line out and a tuner out, so you can plug in headphones and automatically adjusts for 120V or 240V.

**gary mitchell** · 09-22-2009, 12:51 PM

My spine is okay I guess for my age, Iam all for Light but just love my JC 120. I went to Harbor freight and got me a two wheel dolly to haul it on. and I drive a Durango because I haul alot of equipment. so I have room. On ny Bass guitar rig I am looking at some of the new preamp pedals and maybe going to play tru the PA we have 2, 2000 watt crown amps. I played tube amps for years and the JC 120 was the only one at the time I could handle that wasnt tube and I still have a couple. I guess its time for me to go and start checking stuff out and look at some of the new amps out there. I look at the cube 60 and to my ears it didnt do a JC that great, we had a JC there with us and to me it just didnt do it. It reminded me of transistor amps trying to produce a tube sound if you want a tube sound buy a tube amp. You know us old guys we are hard headed and old school and all that. When I played Christain Metal guitar I used all Mesa Boogie.

**carlescountry** · 09-22-2009, 04:51 PM

I play with a Clarus + Raezer's Edge. They are good for solid guitars (I play a solid D'Angelico Vestax NYSD-9), but I like more with archtops and semihollows. The Clarus offers a very transparent sound. It work better with humbuckers than with single-coils, IMO.

**Meggy** · 09-23-2009, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by TK_AK

strings wont fit in the guitar, shit

2 or 3 days without strings on the guitar incomming

I'll have to ask PRS about the strings I can use with this guitar ...

It's just my personal opinion, but I would probably not go heavier than an 11 set on a solid guitar. I find I can still get a Pat like sound with my solid (strung with 10's) through a Polytone amp. For me it's more a question of getting the tone control and amp settings in the right place.

**TK_AK** · 09-23-2009, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Meggy

It's just my personal opinion, but I would probably not go heavier than an 11 set on a solid guitar. I find I can still get a Pat like sound with my solid (strung with 10's) through a Polytone amp. For me it's more a question of getting the tone control and amp settings in the right place.

I think I'll go for an 11 set then ... (still I will have to change some saddles, the saddles can't take more than 0.043 or 0.044 ... ) also the nut may need to be widen very very slightly. Change of gauge imply that the bridge and trem will have to be adjusted ...

So I'll let a pro do all that ... I might also ask him to put new pick ups at the same time.

What are the pick ups that might work well for the sound I dig on a solid body ? (derek already told me about the Gibson 57)

BigDaddyLoveHandles => I know my headphones needs heavy sources ( maybe 800w is really no need, but if the amp is good ...)

**Meggy** · 09-23-2009, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by TK_AK

I think I'll go for an 11 set then ... (still I will have to change some saddles, the saddles can't take more than 0.043 or 0.044 ... ) also the nut may need to be widen very very slightly. Change of gauge imply that the bridge and trem will have to be adjusted ...

So I'll let a pro do all that ... I might also ask him to put new pick ups at the same time.

What are the pick ups that might work well for the sound I dig on a solid body ? (derek already told me about the Gibson 57)

BigDaddyLoveHandles => I know my headphones needs heavy sources ( maybe 800w is really no need, but if the amp is good ...)

I find it a bit curious that the saddles won't take more than a .044 - even a 10 set usually has a .046 bass string, and that is by no means considered outrageously heavy gauge-wise. Plus do bear in mind this is only my individual taste when it comes to string gauges and there may be others who disagree with me! I would say that staying with 10's or 11's does allow you to stay a bit more flexible with what your guitar can do though - if you don't just want to play in the Pat Martino type style that is.

**TK_AK** · 09-23-2009, 09:31 AM

I tried yesterday and the 0.045 string of the 13 set can't fit, the set I had before had a 0.043 that fitted perfectly, i'm not even sure that 0.044 could fit.

About the gauges I prefer to give a try at 11s before because if I want to go higher it won't be a problem to widen the nut slightly, but the contrary is not that easy ( buying a new nut for it to be really adjusted to the lower gauge ...).

**derek** · 09-23-2009, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by TK_AK

I tried yesterday and the 0.045 string of the 13 set can't fit, the set I had before had a 0.043 that fitted perfectly, i'm not even sure that 0.044 could fit.

About the gauges I prefer to give a try at 11s before because if I want to go higher it won't be a problem to widen the nut slightly, but the contrary is not that easy ( buying a new nut for it to be really adjusted to the lower gauge ...).

I would email PRS about what gauges the Santana will take comfortably before I started stringing it up with thicker gauges. Since that is a signature model, it might not be built for versatility in string size.

I emailed them a few years ago when asking about output of pickups, and though their answer wasn't helpful, they were quick to respond. Good luck.

**TK_AK** · 09-23-2009, 12:19 PM

Yeah most of the time they're not really helpful ...

I made some research about jazz pick ups and gibson 57 classic seems to be really good. Should I take 2 ?

**ScotGormley** · 10-25-2009, 06:34 PM

I have a Henriksen Jazz Amp-R Head that I'd like to trade for a nice tube amp (e.g., Blues Junior Tweed, Deluxe, Peavey Classic 30, etc.) if you're interested.

**Little Jay** · 10-26-2009, 05:10 AM

I've seen and spoken mr Martino on some occasions after his concerts (what a nice guy!) and he get's his sound out of just about anything.... so it's mainly in his fingers I guess, but he uses ridiciously heavy strings (flatwounds 0.015!) and rolls his tone control off almost all the way. Try that first, should already take you there. Your guitar should be ok, mr Martino's signature guitar is comparable to a semi-hollow Les Paul I think, so your PRS should do well. (Pat played solidbodies during his career as well and I don't think his tone is distinctively different on them).

**Peter C** · 10-26-2009, 11:07 AM

BTW, Pat said in a recent thread at allaboutjazz.com that his first string is a .015, he then, as I recall, uses a .017 2nd and the rest of the set is like a trypical Jazz light set (something like .024-.052). He mentioned that he may at some time go "back" to a heavy set, but feels comfortable with this hybrid one for now.

**jazzbluesgroove** · 08-05-2014, 05:37 PM

We used to see Pat at Grendel's Lair in downtown Philly, [ a great, but small club] in the mid to late 1970's.

At least once, when he played with Bobby Rose, he used a Fender Twin with a Furman equalizer.

I think an important part of his sound is those heavy strings, at least on top, and the highs turned way down.

The thicker strings take some getting used to, but deliver more volume and a sound with much more midrange and far better low end.

No one has yet mentioned that Pat uses a thick pick as well as a hard attack.

A thicker pick is important to use on thicker strings.

I use a 1 to 1.25 mm animal Horn pick.

Some may want to try a stone pick also, they have a great sound amplified, no extraneous pick sounds at all,
but they are even thicker.

**wintermoon** · 08-05-2014, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by jazzbluesgroove

We used to see Pat at Grendel's Lair in downtown Philly, [ a great, but small club] in the mid to late 1970's.

At least once, when he played with Bobby Rose, he used a Fender Twin with a Furman equalizer.

I think an important part of his sound is those heavy strings, at least on top, and the highs turned way down.

The thicker strings take some getting used to, but deliver more volume and a sound with much more midrange and far better low end.

No one has yet mentioned that Pat uses a thick pick as well as a hard attack.

A thicker pick is important to use on thicker strings.

I use a 1 to 1.25 mm animal Horn pick.

Some may want to try a stone pick also, they have a great sound amplified, no extraneous pick sounds at all,
but they are even thicker.

I was there too, the club was @ 5th and south street.
Matter of fact, Pat closed the venue w/it's last show in '87

btw, Pat used to use two Twins on stage frequently.....

**DRS** · 08-05-2014, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by TK_AK

I think I'll go for an 11 set then ... (still I will have to change some saddles, the saddles can't take more than 0.043 or 0.044 ... ) also the nut may need to be widen very very slightly. Change of gauge imply that the bridge and trem will have to be adjusted ...

So I'll let a pro do all that ... I might also ask him to put new pick ups at the same time.

What are the pick ups that might work well for the sound I dig on a solid body ? (derek already told me about the Gibson 57)

BigDaddyLoveHandles => I know my headphones needs heavy sources ( maybe 800w is really no need, but if the amp is good ...)

Originally Posted by Meggy

I find it a bit curious that the saddles won't take more than a .044 - even a 10 set usually has a .046 bass string, and that is by no means considered outrageously heavy gauge-wise. Plus do bear in mind this is only my individual taste when it comes to string gauges and there may be others who disagree with me! I would say that staying with 10's or 11's does allow you to stay a bit more flexible with what your guitar can do though - if you don't just want to play in the Pat Martino type style that is.

I agree with Meggy, 10-46 strings fit no problem on every guitar PRS has ever made. Are you using flats with the cloth wrap like a Thomstik-Infeld? You can unwrap that red cloth. Maybe post some pics of these strings.