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  1. #351

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    It's true that too much overdrive increases the brightness and cutting tone and goes against having a fat tone. But a little bit overdrive I think helps to get a fatter, warmer tone. Especially if you're playing though a solid state amp. Do others find that too?
    I think the reason for that is, fat tone has both fundamental and good amount of overtones in it. When you have a lot of overdrive, you emphasize the overtones at the expense of the fundamental. That's why it sounds bright and cutting. But when you have just a small bit of overdrive, then you aren't sacrificing the fundamental but adding some more overtones to get a bigger sound. The tone also gets more lively because overtone content changes in response to your dynamics. Adds to the complexity of the sound.
    At risk of sounding didactic I’ll point out what’s probably obvious. A true fundamental is a sine wave—one of the least interesting tones for a instrument.
    Online Tone Generator - generate pure tones of any frequency
    So what makes every instrument appealing (or not) is its unique mix of harmonic content.

    From that viewpoint every instrument is distorting (relative to the pure sine wave). There are a variety of ways of achieving pleasing harmonic content both mechanical/acoustic and electronic. I think guitar manufacturers use “overdrive” to refer to pedals intended for light to moderate clipping and “distortion” for pedals intended for hard clipping (which isn’t what I meant when mentioned distortion in the previous paragraph).

    I think of clean vs. overdrive sort of like clarinet vs. saxophone. Either can sound very good, very bad, or out of place. A very raspy saxophone can sound great as a solo instrument, but if you want to play a chord on saxophone (say in a big band) it probably is best to play more cleanly. Otherwise the chord turns to mush. I think that’s part of the reason “power chords” (root-5) are so popular in rock.

    The bottom line is follow your ear. :-)

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #352

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    Saturday, I played a gig with a new jazz band I am in. Piano, guitar, and a vocalist fronting the show.
    I play a Strat in this band to provide lush tones on the neck pickup, with funky tones on the two-pickup settings.

    There's one glitch. I like to set amp volume high and guitar volume low, providing a very rich, fat neck pickup tone. If the gig requires playing di into the venue PA, as last weekend, the sound guy insists on full guitar volume. This makes a Strat bright even on the neck pu.

    I think I need a Polytone pedal.

  4. #353

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    I just assembled a partscaster Strat. Although normally I am not a fan of Strats for jazz, this one is an exception! Indian laurel fretboard, thicker .011 flatwounds (Thomastiks), body is mist likely Agathis and an old school .1uF tonecap that makes the tone roll off a lot better suited for jazz! It has 57 custom pickups. (All parts were acquired used and the whole thing cost me $320 or so ;-)

    Oh and what helped fatten up the tone a bit was putting 5 vibrato springs and a piece of foam in the spring-cavity to dampen that typical Strat-spring-ring.



    Here’s some (quickly recorded) sounds:

    Tone and volume rolled down a bit:



    Everything full up for more bluesy tone:

  5. #354

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    Great sounding Strat, Jay. I'll have to try that spring ring thing (my PRS has a similar system). Also, nice playing!

  6. #355

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    Great sounding Strat, Jay. I'll have to try that spring ring thing (my PRS has a similar system). Also, nice playing!
    Thanks!

    I just put a rectangular piece of foam on top of the springs so it’s wedged between the springs and the back plate. Works like a charm and doesn’t interfere with vibrato operation.

    I also experimented some more with tone and volume and with tone rolled back and volume up I get a nice punchy and mellow tone for single-note soloing. I’ll see if I can record some of that too.
    Last edited by Little Jay; 05-07-2019 at 08:57 AM.

  7. #356

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    This clip is pretty interesting, the Stratocaster is a very versatile guitar!


  8. #357

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    Saturday, I played a gig with a new jazz band I am in. Piano, guitar, and a vocalist fronting the show.
    I play a Strat in this band to provide lush tones on the neck pickup, with funky tones on the two-pickup settings.

    There's one glitch. I like to set amp volume high and guitar volume low, providing a very rich, fat neck pickup tone. If the gig requires playing di into the venue PA, as last weekend, the sound guy insists on full guitar volume. This makes a Strat bright even on the neck pu.

    I think I need a Polytone pedal.
    Last two times in the recording studio the engineer wanted both DI and a mic on my amp, used a "Y" connection to insert attenuation in front of the amp, let the DI go full... clever engineer, he had my Strat sounding like a section of French horns on one song.

  9. #358

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    I play/gig with both a Heritage Super Eagle and a Bill Nash S-57 Strat. My results correspond virtually identically with those in the clip above. Strings, touch, amp and guitar settings, and voila--you get a lush, jazz sound from the neck pickup on your Strat.

    _Plenty_ of times I'd rather walk in with the Strat than subject the SE to the risk of getting any, ahem, aging.

  10. #359

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airdale
    This clip is pretty interesting, the Stratocaster is a very versatile guitar!

    I think a strat is even better than an achtop for Ted Greene style chord-melodies because of it's chimey sustain. The potential short coming of strat is in a getting fat and non-twangy tone on solo lines especially on the high e and b strings. There are solutions though.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 06-16-2019 at 09:32 PM.

  11. #360

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    Unfortunately Chuck is gone already, but he he got a great jazz/bebop tone out of his strat. As I remember this guitar had a mid boost and he rolled off the highs to get that jazz tone.

  12. #361

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Whoo hoo! What a player. I'd heard him before with Boss Brass, but I didn't realize that he was getting a classic sound in a non-classic way. Thumbpick? Long nails on steel? Strat on jazz?

    I have a Strat, but I can't get a tone that warm, even on the highest notes. How does he do it?

    Also, what is secret to that incredible tone?
    I think the likely answers for Lorne are: light-light-light touch to reduce twang and string snappiness, light strings (note the plain G so probably 11s or lighter), volume rolled down a bit to knock off some highs, tone rolled down a touch too, amp a little louder to compensate. FWIW that was supposedly a borrowed guitar and amp- a recent (at the time) Strat with Fender Noiseless pickups and presumably the strings that were on it. Humbling to say the least.

    BTW, there was nothing wrong with the tone of the clip you posted with your Strat!

  13. #362

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    Cunamara has it. Neck pick up. 11 flats. Amp volume up, guitar volume down. Pick near neck.

    I have played many jazz gigs on a Strat this way. Very satisfying.

  14. #363

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Mods, please remove this thread, I find it offensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by DS71
    I find this post offensive. Christian, you need to post a video jamming on a tune with your Jackson and your floyd Roze wiggle stick...
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Well I was offended first. I don’t mind superstrats. Just strats.
    Those of us in the know realized long ago that it has nothing to do with the differences between a fine, amplified, carved archtop and a plank guitar. It's all about the colour of the guitar. The idea is not so much to offend so much as to confuse. This one does both quite nicely:


  15. #364

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    Another thing. There's something magic about a Strat played through a tweed amp. I guarantee you will get applause and comments.

  16. #365

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    Yeah, the tweed amps seem to compliment Strats and Teles really well. I like mine with my 5e3 a lot.

    With tweed amps and archtops, the bass has to be toned down to reduce boominess and feedback. The flatter response of my Polytone and Clarus are easier with the archtops. As much as I love my Cushman, gigging with the Tele or the Strat is simpler just because of the physics. But at home it's the Cushman I play (usually unplugged 'cuz it sounds so good).

  17. #366

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    Today's Stupid Deal looks pretty good:


    Stupid Deal of the Day | Musician's Friend

  18. #367

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    just bought a Fender Squire Telecaster Affinity..budget player on a pension .cant afford mods..Tim Lerch said volume up and tone down and 12-54s...EXL145`s dadarrio....wont sound like a banjo...anyone any other advice ..do i like it...very much...smooth neck and sounds great out of the box...cheers.
    Last edited by voxsss; 07-12-2020 at 10:05 AM.

  19. #368

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  20. #369

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Eff
    It looks like this guitar is for sale.

  21. #370

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    Quote Originally Posted by voxsss
    just bought a Fender Squire Telecaster Affinity..budget player on a pension .cant afford mods..Tim Lerch said volume up and tone down and 12-54s...EXL145`s dadarrio....wont sound like a banjo...anyone any other advice ..do i like it...very much...smooth neck and sounds great out of the box...cheers.
    My Telecaster is also a Squier Affinity which I bought probably 10 years ago maybe, 11 or 12 even. It was around the time they first came out, IIRC. I have played many gigs with that guitar and play it a little bit probably almost every day. The neck is very narrow but I seem to adjust pretty quickly.

    Due to the vagaries of wiring in various buildings, including my 112-year-old house, I did eventually put in stacked humbucking Telecaster pick ups (Dimarzio Area T and Wilde noiseless Telecaster pickups are both outstanding for jazz). But that being said, the stock pickups sounded fine and I used them for several years. Ironically enough, this is my quietest guitar.

    I run the volume not quite all the way up (say 8-9) as that rolls off just a little of the very high end. Tone control right around half. I seem to always like to place the tone control right at about the resonant peak of the pick up, which results in small movements having a noticeable effect on the tone.

    I have found that regular light gauge strings sound fine for jazz: .010-.046 or .011-.050 work great unless you have a heavy touch.

    With a warm sounding amp, the above will put you right in Ed Bickert land. And I don't think jazz guitar tone gets any better than that (different and excellent, but not better).

    I just realized "heck, we were talking about Stratocasters rather than Telecasters in this thread." Sorry for the diversion. I do also have a Stratocaster that sounds fine for jazz, although it does not have Strat pick ups in it and so I think that guitar would be less germane to this conversation.

  22. #371

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    Quote Originally Posted by voxsss
    just bought a Fender Squire Telecaster Affinity..budget player on a pension .cant afford mods..Tim Lerch said volume up and tone down and 12-54s...EXL145`s dadarrio....wont sound like a banjo...anyone any other advice ..do i like it...very much...smooth neck and sounds great out of the box...cheers.
    just know that tim tunes down...also the afffinty pickups are not like typical fenders...they are built more like a small p90...with non magnet polepieces

    affinity tele's are good bang for the buck..they sound good with flats too!

    enjoy

    cheers

  23. #372

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    Another thing about the Strat is that it emphasizes higher frequencies than a typical humbucker guitar.

    To my ear, for comping, that can blend really well with the sound of a band, even a big band. Maybe especially a big band.

    There's more separation from the bass and it's thin enough to separate nicely from the keyboard, again, for comping.

    I think the thinness doesn't readily work so well for soloing, but, clearly it can. Doesn't Lorne Lofsky play a Strat? He sounds incredible in a big band setting.

    I heard Mike Stern play a Strat with Miles Davis. There's some strat-cred in that.

  24. #373

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    Another thing. There's something magic about a Strat played through a tweed amp. I guarantee you will get applause and comments.
    Only if it's blue tweed, though. Although blue suede is pretty good as well. But not Blue Swede, please. Oooga-chaka!

  25. #374

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    It's nothing new- you can use any guitar for any style as long as you know how to play. A Strat is a pretty versatile instrument, go for it if you like. I love archtops but my favourite guitar is the Telecaster (or Thinline, Esquire)- To me it's the ultimate dynamic guitar.

  26. #375

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    just bought Tim Lerchs Truefires Blues soloing..Jazzy blues....the Squire tele sounds great in the backing mix..noticed CC pickup on Tims tele...lucky man..

  27. #376

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  28. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Another thing about the Strat is that it emphasizes higher frequencies than a typical humbucker guitar.

    To my ear, for comping, that can blend really well with the sound of a band, even a big band. Maybe especially a big band.

    There's more separation from the bass and it's thin enough to separate nicely from the keyboard, again, for comping.

    I think the thinness doesn't readily work so well for soloing, but, clearly it can. Doesn't Lorne Lofsky play a Strat? He sounds incredible in a big band setting.

    I heard Mike Stern play a Strat with Miles Davis. There's some strat-cred in that.
    A stock Strat played clean has its own sound that you can emphasize or de-emphasize to a degree, but you can never really get it to the point where it's not recognizably a Strat (the way you can do with a Tele). You can get it pretty warm sounding. I don't have any good recordings of my Strat in a straightahead group context, but I think these hint at it. Other than that, take my word for it (or not), but I can play my Strat with a jazz group and have it sound nice and fat and sit well in the group sound either soloing or comping, but not to mimic my archtop or semi. I do have to admit, thought, that it took me a long time to figure that out, and it's more dependent on the right amp than the other guitars. My semi works with anything -- no matter what I plug into, I can get a decent jazz tone. But there are amps the Strat doesn't get along with.

    . [silverface plug-in in Garageband)

    (I actually forgot what amp I used here, but it's either my Fender Champion 20 on the Deluxe Reverb setting or my SF Princeton Reverb; I've used it with both of these in groups to good effect).

    John

  29. #378

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    Strats may be the single most malleable type of electric guitar in terms of sounds. It's true that you have to work a bit to get a classic jazz sound from them, but Chris Crocco sure does:



    Nir Felder's sound is also close to mainstream:

    And if you don't mind it sounding more conventionally like a strat, then it'll certainly fit idiomatically into jazz



  30. #379

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    Great thread, I stumbled on it, and the forum, researching exactly this topic: Getting jazz sounds out of your Strat.

    I play an 80's ESP Strat with 0.10–0.46 strings and the original pickups. So, not ideal for that sound. But I plugged it into my EBS bass amp, gave it some spring reverb, and at least I'm having fun improvising over drum and piano tunes.

    Thanks a lot for all the inspiration! Might look into changing pickups and strings later. Or get a Les Paul.

  31. #380

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielW
    Great thread, I stumbled on it, and the forum, researching exactly this topic: Getting jazz sounds out of your Strat.I play an 80's ESP Strat with 0.10–0.46 strings and the original pickups. So, not ideal for that sound. But I plugged it into my EBS bass amp, gave it some spring reverb, and at least I'm having fun improvising over drum and piano tunes.

    Thanks a lot for all the inspiration! Might look into changing pickups and strings later. Or get a Les Paul.
    Beefier, flatwound strings might yield a "jazzier" tone. Back in the day, Strats were shipped with flats. You might find the sound and feel compelling.

  32. #381

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    Got a surprising warm sound out of this, even without tone knob and 9's . If it didn't have the floyd rose i would keep it. Great neck.

    Fender Stratocaster for Jazz?-dsc05356-jpg

  33. #382

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    FWIW, I love Stratocasters and Telecasters. I'll take one or the other to rehearsal today, in fact.

    If I'm playing in a band, I will often use either one because they sit in the mix so well. By comparison, my archtops require a more spare setting. Trio/quartet--archtops work well; solo or duo, the archtop gets the nod.

    Again, for solo jazz/for backing a singer/for playing in a trio, it's hard to beat a good archtop. Still, it's hard to resist just grabbing a Strat and running. I know that I can make it work.

    Strat for jazz? Sure.