Old deluxe reverb amps!

[jzjazz]

Hi guys,

Over the last couple months I've been playing various Princeton RI amps - regular, limited white/blue, the same with eminence lil bud, sunburst with Celestion g10. I like them all but they're all a bit quite for my taste - I sometimes wish I had more power available, especially playing with my loud tenor sax buddy

So it's time to move on to a deluxe. I like the 65RI pretty much but there are also some older amps available, e.g.
- a 77 silverface reverb. About 2000E. Is the silver face the holy grail or rather the old blackface?
- a 82 deluxe reverb II - the one with a distortion channel. Much cheaper - 1000E (being the price of a used 65 RI), but this one I won't be able to play before buying (3000km way). But the seller says that the clean channel has the classic blackface sound.

So - what's the popular jazz amp if it comes to the old amps? Black or silver? What amps are Lage Lund and Johnattan Kreisberg playing?

Thanks!

[Stringswinger]

I have had both the 65 reissue and a 74 Silverface. The Silverface sounded WAY better (much warmer). I do not think there is a ton of difference between the Black face and the Silverface other than the price (much higher for the Blackface) and bragging rights. After 1972, the cabinet was changed and you are stuck with 1 12 inch speaker, Prior to 72, the baffle was removeable and you had the option of going with 2 10 inch speakers. Also, the wiring quality and weight is better on the Blackfaces and early Silverfaces.

With an upgraded speaker (necessary for an archtop, the stock speakers crap out on the full bass response of a big archtop) a Silverface will weigh about 45 pounds. Eventually, I decided that was more than I want to carry at 59 years old, but I loved that amp in the years that I owned it.

I have never owned a Rivera Era Deluxe, but I had a Rivera Era Concert (2 10's). The distortion channel sucked. And I could never find a good jazz tone with that amp. Mesa did a better job in the early 80's. I would pass on that one as well as the reissue.

[ThatRhythmMan]

I actually don’t care for the blackface or silverface amps I’ve played that much, original or RI. I love my refurbished 5c3 Tweed deluxe and my two Tweed Fender clones made by Michael Clark. One is a Bassman clone in a 2x12 cab and the other is a Tweed Twin clone. So, my vote is for 50s Tweeds.

[gggomez]

Sold my Princeton (had vintage tubes, replacement speaker etc etc for QuilterMicroProHD12.

Half the weight, louder but best of all the sound in a band setting the tone is so much better and it has the valve attack squish thingy going on.

[El Fundo]

Disabling the bright cap turns the DR into a much warmer sounding amp. I love my DRRI since I did that; also replaced the speaker with a Celestion Alnico Gold.

[Greentone]

I have owned and played a LOT of Deluxe Reverb amps through the years since the 60s. Blackface, Silverface, RI, you name it.

The Silverface amps do indeed sound the same as the Blackface amps, just cheaper. Many old speakers are roached out because guys like me played those amps on ten when we were kids.

I also prefer the sound of the tweed Deluxe to the DR.

[jzjazz]

I forgot to mention that I've owned a DRRI already and liked it a lot. I found it to sound better than any of the 4 princetones I've had (standard 65RI, limited white with Jensen C10R, limited white with Eminence Lil Bud - my favourite, limited sunburst with Celestion G10 Alnico), but it weights over 21kg. The older DR seem to weight less - 17-18kg (according to two sellers I've been in touch with), being almost equal to what my princetons weight (both 15-16,5kg, white with lil bud and sunburst).

So the thing is - I'm playing out once a week maybe and 3kg more or less are relevant for me and that's the main reason I'm looking at older silverface amps, not the sound (I never even heard them, but I'm completely fine with the sound of the RI).

And please - let's not start the SS vs. valve discussion - I've had polytones, henriksen, mambo amps and now I'm on a Deluxe/Princeton phase and don't want anything besides that, even if it's better! :-)

[David B]

What amps are Lage Lund and Johnattan Kreisberg playing?

Thanks!

Both use my '65 DRRI when they're in the UK. Jonathan has one at home for his NY gigs. I remember recently that Lage's NY amp was a Rivera-era Fender Concert.

[Greentone]

The Rivera/Fender Concert from the mid-80s is a great amplifier, if you can get along without vibrato. It has a great "Fender" tone and GREAT Fender reverb. Plus, it is a bargain in an all-hand-wired Fender amp.

[Little Jay]

I forgot to mention that I've owned a DRRI already and liked it a lot. I found it to sound better than any of the 4 princetones I've had (standard 65RI, limited white with Jensen C10R, limited white with Eminence Lil Bud - my favourite, limited sunburst with Celestion G10 Alnico), but it weights over 21kg. The older DR seem to weight less - 17-18kg (according to two sellers I've been in touch with), being almost equal to what my princetons weight (both 15-16,5kg, white with lil bud and sunburst).

So the thing is - I'm playing out once a week maybe and 3kg more or less are relevant for me and that's the main reason I'm looking at older silverface amps, not the sound (I never even heard them, but I'm completely fine with the sound of the RI).

And please - let's not start the SS vs. valve discussion - I've had polytones, henriksen, mambo amps and now I'm on a Deluxe/Princeton phase and don't want anything besides that, even if it's better! :-)

The 3kg weight difference between the RI and the vintage ones is probably the cabinet (solid pine vs birch multiply, although later 70ies models are ply or even particle board as well) and the speaker. The RI is fitted with the Jensen C12K, the heaviest speaker in the Jensen range. The older ones come with speakers (Oxfords, Utahs or Pyles) more comparable with the C12N in terms of weight.

How about fitting a RI in a nice pine cabinet with a neodymium speaker?

[John A.]

I forgot to mention that I've owned a DRRI already and liked it a lot. I found it to sound better than any of the 4 princetones I've had (standard 65RI, limited white with Jensen C10R, limited white with Eminence Lil Bud - my favourite, limited sunburst with Celestion G10 Alnico), but it weights over 21kg. The older DR seem to weight less - 17-18kg (according to two sellers I've been in touch with), being almost equal to what my princetons weight (both 15-16,5kg, white with lil bud and sunburst).

So the thing is - I'm playing out once a week maybe and 3kg more or less are relevant for me and that's the main reason I'm looking at older silverface amps, not the sound (I never even heard them, but I'm completely fine with the sound of the RI).

And please - let's not start the SS vs. valve discussion - I've had polytones, henriksen, mambo amps and now I'm on a Deluxe/Princeton phase and don't want anything besides that, even if it's better! :-)

Blackface and early Silverface (up to ca. '70), have wood cabinets. Silverface thereafter and RI have MDF (particle board) cabinets, which are heavier. That's why some of the DR's you've seen are listed with lower weights than the the DRRI you owned. If you want either a leter SF or DRRI, but would prefer it to be lighter, you can buy a pine cabinet (around $200, from what I can see advertised).

John

[jzjazz]

Not sure about the neo speaker - I don't believe they sound equally good But the pine cabinet is a good idea. Doing both could make the amp much lighter, so maybe something to consider.

[rpjazzguitar]

I had an early 70s Silverface. Very attack-y. Might have been the JBL's. Weighed a ton.

I think for great sound, less poundage and less money, I'd look for an old Ampeg.

[Little Jay]

I'm a big fan of neo speakers, but I must admit I changed them out in my Twin in favor of a pair of old Pyle-speakers....

With all respect, but whoever thought JBL's are a good idea in Silverface amps was out of his mind.... spikey and ear-piercing (and very heavy on top of that). No no no sir!

[gggomez]

Think fender released a new 64 Deluxe Reverb RI hand wired noncircuit board.

[wzpgsr]

Man, I’m gonna recommend you take a look at the VHT 12/20. There are a few on reverb for $400 or under. They are handwired and get a sound that is often described as like a deluxe reverb but with slightly more pronounced mids. The price is right, and they can take 6v6 or el84 tubes (with adapter) for 12 watts or 6L6 or EL34 for 20 watts. There is an output attenuator that can take you down to 1 watt and pretty sure you can switch between pentode and triad mode as well. Very versatile amp for the money.

I had a VHT Special 6 that was well-built, extremely affordable, but lacking headroom for gigs. I have bad GAS for a brownface Princeton or deluxe, and it seems like the 12/20 would get me in the ballpark for quite a bit less than the real deal.

[Little Jay]

VHT was never on my radar, but I checked and that 12/20 looks veeeery interesting!

[yebdox]

Have you ever thought about getting a beat up silver face and putting it into a separate head and cab to make it easier to carry? You can have a 1x12 or 2x10 can build for fairly cheap that would have removable panel in the back for open versus closed versatility, And that makes it much easier to distribute the weight when you’re carrying two separate items, versus pulling your shoulder out of joint :-)

[wzpgsr]

VHT was never on my radar, but I checked and that 12/20 looks veeeery interesting!

I wish I had never read your OP, because I don’t really need another amp, and now it’s on my radar too! Seriously, for the money used, I can’t imagine there’s a more versatile tube amp out there. $385??

[bmw2002]

What amps are Lage Lund and Johnattan Kreisberg playing?

Thanks!

Here's what Jonathan Kreisberg was playing last night here in Philadelphia at Chris' Jazz Cafe. A Deluxe Reverb and what looked like MegaBrute IV. (He missed the first 40 minutes of the set due to a late flight from Austin!)

[jaco]

I have a '66 with a Weber replacement speaker. Nothing boutique comes close. This is as real is it gets.