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Other than the Gibson Johnny Smith ($$$) or the current Korean/Chinese instruments, why are there so few archtops with a wider body and the classic short Gibson scale length? Nearly all of the Gibson, Heritage, Epiphone and luthier built 17" instruments have 25.5 scale length which does not work so well for my hands. Yet a 16" seems to get lost on my lap, and I tend to fold over and hunch which makes my back very unhappy! Am I caught between custom or an asian instrument? Or are there other options I'm missing?
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09-27-2017 01:07 PM
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I'm the reverse I'm been playing smaller body guitars for last few years 14"-16" and my tele's even smaller. I find the smaller body and using a strap even when seated more comfortable. I recently got and Epiphone with 17" and find it uncomfortable and probably going to get rid of it. My best guitar $$$ wise is an 18" I got a number of years ago and it just collects dust, I was okay with the size for awhile, but then started back playing my small body guitars again. I've become addicted to small body guitars.
As for scale length most my guitar have 25" scale except my 175 is 24" and I can switch back and forth easily. I guess playing bass for years using guitar like fingering instead of upright fingering my small hands are used to stretching. Lately been playing my 175 a lot so enjoying the shorter scale, just wish the body was a bit thinner.
I find most body and scale sizes I can adjust to if I make myself stick with it for about a week. I adjust my strap and play a little higher on the neck and work into lower positions over the week I can make it work.
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Guild made a 17 inch archtop with the short scale for years.
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I think a lot of makers are doing 25" these days.
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Are you very tall?
Originally Posted by guido5
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Medium tall 6'1"... normalish hands but I tend to get tendonitis flareups if I need to play a lot of stretches hense the interest in short scale... Originally Posted by Woody Sound
If I was very tall I'd be asking about 18" bouts and have big enough hands to play 25.5 with ease...
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25" scale is standard at Benedetto for all models.
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I'm sure Heritage would be happy to build you a 17" bout archtop with either a 25.75 or 25" scale.
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Yes the custom solutions are lovely and probably too pricey for my budget...
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One thing that might work is to use a strap while seated, with a smaller (e.g., 16") guitar with a 24.75" scale. Someone else mentioned this in passing. Eliminates the whole "slumped over" thing.
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To me 6-1 is tall. I'm 5-7 with a small trunk Originally Posted by guido5
Medium tall 6'1"... normalish hands but I tend to get tendonitis flareups if I need to play a lot of stretches hense the interest in short scale...
If I was very tall I'd be asking about 18" bouts and have big enough hands to play 25.5 with ease...
I've been using 15" bout 24.75 scale guitars exclusively and loving it.
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Very helpful! Thanks! I definitely need a road-map to Guild models. This is a great start. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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From Gibson, isn't the Byrdland a short-scale instrument? I wonder if the preference for 25.5" for the 17"-18" is related to the location of the bridge, the join of the neck to the body, etc? More or less soft coercion by the traditional shape and proportions?
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The Byrdland is a strange animal. 17 bout, 2-1/4 rims, and 23.5 scale with 22 frets. Cats seem to either love them to death or hate them. I am in the love camp. Very fast neck but if you have large hands forget it.
The perfect axe for me would be 17x3, 25 inch scale, 20 frets, 1-11/16 nut.
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Thousands of @17" German archtops were made in the post-war era, with @24 3/4" scale necks. These include high-quality, carved-top and back instruments from Roger, Hoyer, Glassl, Lang and more. @17" Hofner archtops typically have necks with a 25 1/4" scale. Originally Posted by guido5
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Using a strap while seated was a revelation to me. Not having a strap now feels awkward. Give it a try, if you haven't. Might change your feelings about your 16" guitar.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Hmmm... I like the freedom without one, but I'll have to try this. Might spoil a perfectly good case of GAS but... Originally Posted by rlrhett
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The Byrdland is an interesting thought. I have always admired them, but never seen one in person. And the prices are generally silly high so I haven't actively looked for them. Then I remembered that Epiphone has a version. That is in the price range. Interesting.
Last edited by guido5; 09-27-2017 at 06:25 PM.
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I love the Byrdland, it is fine for people with smallish hands and who are not too tall,
being only 5' 7 1/2" I find it very comfortable to play and adapt to the 23 1/2" scale
very little adjustment is required from a 25 1/2" or a 24.3/4" after a minute or so
one can adjust very easily. For those of us who suffer from arthritic complaints or
tendonitis, it is easier on the hands. The guitar is only a tad brighter than an L5CES
for anyone wondering about it. Before acquiring mine, I sought Vinny's opinion here,
as he has owned a Byrdland for a considerable time and reassured me that it is not a
problem switching between different scale lengths, and he is right.
A custom build in the pipeline almost meets his own ideal , mine will be 16 5/8" x 25"
scale , 20 frets, 3' deep. .... and no, it is not a Gibson.
The intermediate 25" scale is becoming more common today as Woody Sound has
already mentioned.
Using a guitar strap even when seated also aids posture, having employed one for
years when we all played in a standing position is second nature.
just my 2pLast edited by silverfoxx; 09-27-2017 at 06:27 PM.
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And pretty much all the luthiers Benedetto has influenced. Originally Posted by Eagle2x
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1. Depends on your budget. If you can get past having a name that starts with a G on the headstock, you can find some excellent instruments at very reasonable prides. Originally Posted by guido5
Yes the custom solutions are lovely and probably too pricey for my budget...
2. Don't forget the used market. Boutique instruments tend to unfortunately hold value less than Gibsons, even though they are often just as good if not better, but that makes for better deals on the used market. Revreb.com, craigslist.org, eBay.com, etc., and some dealers that specilize in this sort of thing. And the used market can be a great source the excellent Ibanez made-in-Japan archtops which typically have 24.75" necks.
3. Some luthiers are very reasonable in terms of price, such as forum member Matt Cushman. I think his new instruments start at $3600 or $3800, haven't checked his web site in a while. I've had one of his 17" archtops with 25" scale neck for 11 years now and it is a wonderful instrument. I would bet his newer ones are even better.
4. Don't overlook the more budget-conscious makers like Eastman, Peerless, etc. Many of those are quite excellent instruments.
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Is there an explicit reason that you won't consider prewar Gibsons? You can put a pickup on a 1935-39 ("Advanced") L7. Grant Green had one.
Those aren't too expensive either.
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What's in a scale length?
The 25" SL reportedly varies from 24.875", 24.9", 25", 25.1", 25.125".
The 24.75" SL varies from 24.594", 24.625" to 24.75".
25.5" SL varies from 25.375", 25.4", 25.5" to 25.625".
They are all rounded up or down to the commonly held standards of 24.75", 25" or 25.5" on the dealer's specification sheet.
The Gibson 24.75" SL wasn't always so.
Scale Length Explained | stewmac.com
There is a slight degree of difference in tone and feel. If you are sensitive to these things, get a very accurate scale out* or ask the luthier.
* Doesn't help much because of the curvature induced by neck relief.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 09-27-2017 at 10:39 PM.
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Agree. Pre-war Advanced L-5, L-7, L-10, L-12 - all great 17", 24 3/4" scale guitars. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
If you like the idea but must have a cutaway 17" with a 24 3/4" scale guitar:
- Gibson Bozeman-built L-7C (@2003-2012)
- Gibson "Solid Formed 17" Hollowbody Venetian" (@2015)
are great options.
If you like the idea but must have a cutaway 17" with a 25" scale guitar:
- Gibson Johnny Smith
- Heritage "Rose" (their version of a Johnny Smith)Last edited by Hammertone; 09-29-2017 at 12:33 AM.
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