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  1. #1

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    These pics were sent to a Daniel Slaman via Pat Metheny, these are just AMAZING a true piece of history enjoy.


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    Last edited by 55bar; 08-31-2017 at 07:14 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    What i wouldn't give for just an hour to play this guitar.

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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by wanderingchords View Post
    What i wouldn't give for just an hour to play this guitar.

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    Agreed, I'm trying to figure out how the the lacquer got worn so much just on the top above the 15th fret. Any ideas?


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  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by 55bar View Post
    Agreed, I'm trying to figure out how the the lacquer got worn so much just on the top above the 15th fret. Any ideas?

    Same here...

    Plus: a couple of hack jobs regarding the modifications....LOL!

    Anyway: thanks for posting!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A long journey starts with the first step...and although I have long forgotten about my destination I'm still enjoying the journey.

  6. #5
    There are no string slots in the bridge right?

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
    There are no string slots in the bridge right?
    I think if you zoom in they are visible


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  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOMMO View Post
    Same here...

    Plus: a couple of hack jobs regarding the modifications....LOL!

    Anyway: thanks for posting!
    Of course, some of the modifications would have been done by Jimmy D'Aquisto (ebony fretboard and pick guard, though don't know about the PU insert)...

    Could the finish wear on the top stem from a strap that's been left on??

    PS. Thanks for posting these!!

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nils View Post
    Of course, some of the modifications would have been done by Jimmy D'Aquisto (ebony fretboard and pick guard, though don't know about the PU insert)...

    Could the finish wear on the top stem from a strap that's been left on??

    PS. Thanks for posting these!!
    Yes that's what I thought re the strap.


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  10. #9

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    That thing has sure made some wonderful sounds!

  11. #10

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    Now some marketing genius is going to do a Guitar Center/Gibson antiqued re-issue complete with faux worn out finish and toucan sticker. Look for it in the neighborhood of $20K. Those Guild pickups go a long way towards that very unique sound; the D'Aquisto guitar Jimmy built for Jim retained those pickups.

    David

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    Those Guild pickups go a long way towards that very unique sound;

    David
    Well, it's gotta be the Guild pickups in combination with the toucan sticker, surely!

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    Now some marketing genius is going to do a Guitar Center/Gibson antiqued re-issue complete with faux worn out finish and toucan sticker. Look for it in the neighborhood of $20K.

    David
    If jazz guitarists would fall for those marketing scams as easily as rock guys - sure!
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A long journey starts with the first step...and although I have long forgotten about my destination I'm still enjoying the journey.

  14. #13

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    Wasn't there something about the neck? I remember hearing something like he took his Gibson neck and put it on his D'Aquisto or something like that. Was it from this guitar? Therefore the neck on it now is not original?
    - Tom

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by furtom View Post
    Wasn't there something about the neck? I remember hearing something like he took his Gibson neck and put it on his D'Aquisto or something like that. Was it from this guitar? Therefore the neck on it now is not original?
    I could see Jimmy taking the exact contour and incorporating it onto his new guitar, that D'Aquisto was, afterall a 16" laminate designed to be everything Jim loved about the 175 and putting it into the best D'Aquisto could build in that image. It's not difficult to duplicate a neck contour. But a neck transplant? Not that I've ever ever heard. I've looked Jim's D'Aquisto over pretty carefully (now THAT's a dream and feel I'll never forget) and it was definitely D'Aquisto workmanship through and through. At least when I saw Jim those times.
    He had the most disturbing habit of balancing that guitar on a bar stool flat on its back. Yikes! But he did know what he was doing, on and off the bandstand.

    David

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by furtom View Post
    Wasn't there something about the neck? I remember hearing something like he took his Gibson neck and put it on his D'Aquisto or something like that. Was it from this guitar? Therefore the neck on it now is not original?
    When I was about 25, I met and played a tune with Jim, I seem to remember him saying something along those lines, but it was a while ago so my memory of it was all a bit hazy.


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  17. #16

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    I thought the story was jimmy put the ebony fretboard with block markers on this one...

    Man, if guitars could talk.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  18. #17

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    The neck is the same one that Gibson put on it, as the headstock clearly shows. But D'Aquisto replaced the fingerboard as well as the pickup and bridge. I don't know if that was for aesthetics or because the original fingerboard was worn. The neck on his D'Aquisto was clearly a D'Aquisto neck from the photos of that instrument that one can find on the interwebs.

    All the photos I have seen of this axe, never noted the pickup ring. But I suppose it had to be done that way due to the size of the hole for the P90.

    Re: the wear on the upper bout. Maybe just rub from the case lining over millions of miles of being transported?

    This and Johnny Smith's 1955 D'Angelico are my favorite jazz guitars ever (followed by Tal's ES-350 and Ed Bickert's Tele). Thanks for posting the photos!
    Last edited by Cunamara; 09-01-2017 at 10:10 AM.
    Beauty is as close to terror as we can well endure. -Rainer Maria Rilke

  19. #18

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    The fingerboard replacement seems evident also in the different fret markers than the standard ES175 split blocks.

    Thanks for this really intimate look at an iconic guitar!
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  20. #19

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    I'm happy to learn that Pat has this guitar now, that makes perfect sense. Does anyone know where the Ga-50 is now? Thanks for the pics.
    Ignorance is agony.



  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey02 View Post
    I'm happy to learn that Pat has this guitar now, that makes perfect sense. Does anyone know where the Ga-50 is now? Thanks for the pics.
    I think actually Pat had the opportunity to buy this but in the end it went to another buyer.


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  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    I could see Jimmy taking the exact contour and incorporating it onto his new guitar, that D'Aquisto was, afterall a 16" laminate designed to be everything Jim loved about the 175 and putting it into the best D'Aquisto could build in that image. It's not difficult to duplicate a neck contour. But a neck transplant? Not that I've ever ever heard. I've looked Jim's D'Aquisto over pretty carefully (now THAT's a dream and feel I'll never forget) and it was definitely D'Aquisto workmanship through and through. At least when I saw Jim those times.
    He had the most disturbing habit of balancing that guitar on a bar stool flat on its back. Yikes! But he did know what he was doing, on and off the bandstand.

    David
    If you had the guitar in hand, I certainly take you word for it. But I know I heard it. You know, if it's on the Internet, it must be true!

    Quote Originally Posted by 55bar View Post
    When I was about 25, I met and played a tune with Jim, I seem to remember him saying something along those lines, but it was a while ago so my memory of it was all a bit hazy.


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    Yeah, there is something out there... It's probably been distorted after all these years...
    - Tom

  23. #22

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    great pics!!! thanks

    lot of jimmy d'aquisto in that guitar..from the guild pups he used often, to the pickguard and pickup ring...aside from fretboard

    and yes the rosewood pickup ring has to be oversized to cover the p90 hole..which is longer...but also the guild is wider..so some additional top wood had to be cut

    also has the collectable van eps string damper..

    that jack plate is questionable..screws very close to edges... reason tape is needed to hold screws..must have been quite a large crack or hole

    upper bout wear is probably from strap..either taking on and off or in the case

    good stuff...classic guitar...and remember that guitar was originally owned by howard roberts!

    cheers
    Last edited by neatomic; 09-01-2017 at 12:10 PM.

  24. #23

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    has 60's Gibson knobs and tailpiece, Schallers are later
    that guitar must've been on a million gigs
    Last edited by wintermoon; 09-01-2017 at 12:13 PM.

  25. #24

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    Cool thread!

  26. #25

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    gotta rememeber those are old school working mans mods

    nowadays a more accurate historical renovation would be in order, but in those days that kind of thinking didnt yet exist really...not for a lami 175 especially!! whatever fit and was available (which was not much) was used...


    cheers

  27. #26

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    "gotta rememeber those are old school working mans mods"

    yup. when I got my first electric, a 175, first thing I did was Schallerize it

  28. #27

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    I'll bet he would have laughed at players obsessing over a couple of scratches on a prospective purchase :-) I know I do.
    Regards,

    Gary

  29. #28

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    The GA-50 was sold in an eBay auction, IIRC.
    Beauty is as close to terror as we can well endure. -Rainer Maria Rilke

  30. #29

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    This would be the guitar he traded his Les Paul custom for... got the 175 from Howard Roberts ?
    Edit: yeah I dictated that to my phone, and no I'm not going to fix the mistakes.

  31. #30

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    - liked the close-up of the Van Eps damper.......never knew that plate was screwed to the headstock........

    thanks

  32. #31

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    Wow, talk about iconic. And it's SO beautiful. Great pics. I'd like to see the back as well.

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    Wow, talk about iconic. And it's SO beautiful. Great pics. I'd like to see the back as well.
    Me too! We wants to see the back!
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D View Post
    - liked the close-up of the Van Eps damper.......never knew that plate was screwed to the headstock........

    thanks

    the later gibson made versions used the trussrod cover holes

    Jim Hall's 175 up close!-van01-jpg

    cheers

  35. #34

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    I wonder how much that string damper, rather than turning down the tone knob, accounts for Jim Hall's very distinctive tone?
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  36. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    Wow, talk about iconic. And it's SO beautiful. Great pics. I'd like to see the back as well.
    Just for you Lawson and Rob




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  37. #36

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    Thanks!!!
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    I wonder how much that string damper, rather than turning down the tone knob, accounts for Jim Hall's very distinctive tone?
    Not at all, for all accounts and purposes. It's a somewhat ineffective attempt to keep open strings from creating feedback and all the rage at a time. They didn't really work and any note that was fretted above the first fret has nothing to do with the effect of this device.
    I remember when players had these, and everyone wanted to put "that cool thing" on their guitars. More benefit and effect for the marketers than anything else.
    As to Jim's tone, a lifetime's work at being Jim. Ain't no string thingy going to get you closer to that.

    David

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    Not at all, for all accounts and purposes. It's a somewhat ineffective attempt to keep open strings from creating feedback and all the rage at a time. They didn't really work and any note that was fretted above the first fret has nothing to do with the effect of this device.
    I remember when players had these, and everyone wanted to put "that cool thing" on their guitars. More benefit and effect for the marketers than anything else.
    As to Jim's tone, a lifetime's work at being Jim. Ain't no string thingy going to get you closer to that.

    David

    I remember back in the day when a few had those I think only once did I see Herb Ellis actually flip it down to mute strings. These day the two-handed guitar players using hair squishes to do the same thing when they are tapping to mute strings. Remember when Fender put the mute on the Jaguar but at the bridge. They said it was to fake a banjo sound.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  40. #39

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    Appears he had the finish sanded off the back of the neck can see on heel where original finish is still there. I also like the big metal plate on the side. Sure it was required to repair a jack accident, but it's so big I wonder if it is also to make easier to make changes to PUP and pots.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  41. #40

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    I had the chance to hang out with Jim Hall at his apartment back in the early 80's and he told me the story of that 175.
    In his study he had a table by the door and would lay his guitar on it. He also had a framed picture hanging on the wall above it.
    One day he heard a crash and discovered the picture had fallen off the wall and slammed into the top of the guitar. I can't remember if he said Jimmy D'Aquisto did the repairs but I do remember him saying the guitar never felt the same after that. I believe that was one reason why he moved to his later guitars.

  42. #41

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    herb e style
    Jim Hall's 175 up close!-1200x630bb-jpg

    george van eps was not only a musical genius, but he was also a precision clockworks type engineering genius....if he came up with the damper and thought it worthwhile, thats good enough for me...barring user or installation error...not a guy to be taken lightly..or his ideas!!

    Jim Hall's 175 up close!-vaneps2-jpg

    cheers

    ps- when barry galbraith calls you out as the best..thats saying something!!!!...galbraith and johnny smith were old school elite!!!..the top nyc session/reader guitarists of the day

    and of course the great ted greene also loved van eps...did wonderful interview with him
    Last edited by neatomic; 09-01-2017 at 07:07 PM. Reason: ps-

  43. #42

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    I never saw Herb Ellis in the flesh, but videos commonly show the damper in place.

  44. #43

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    GVE apparently also built a working large scale model steam locomotive because he heard someone say it couldn't be done. At least that's my recollection of the story, which I think was in Ted Greene's profile of him in Guitar Player in the early 80s. Could be my memory is on the fritz again. Maybe somebody's got that GP issue handy.
    Beauty is as close to terror as we can well endure. -Rainer Maria Rilke

  45. #44

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    I am absolutely convinced that, if we did not know who owns this guitar, and it was offered for sale, most collectors would Skoff at it, strictly based on the number and type of modifications made on the guitar. Play ability and sound always take a backseat to whether the pick guard is specifically period correct and if the pick up has changed and if the guitar has been refretted.
    '
    Navdeep Singh.

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    I am absolutely convinced that, if we did not know who owns this guitar, and it was offered for sale, most collectors would Skoff at it, strictly based on the number and type of modifications made on the guitar. Play ability and sound always take a backseat to whether the pick guard is specifically period correct and if the pick up has changed and if the guitar has been refretted.
    '
    That's how collectibility always works, though. Any item is valued by collectors due to its relationship with history, not its serviceability as a tool or instrument. A perfectly serviceable bedroom in a quaint old B&B becomes hopelessly inaccessibly if George Washing slept in it.

    As an archaeologist, I understand any material object exists in several matrices of value simultaneously. Something has a functional role, but it simultaneously has a connection with history, and might also be inherently beautiful regardless of its age, or extremely useful regardless of its appearance or historical connection. Contexts attribute meaning to material objects.

    Lets face it: the actual materials in that ES175 are only worth about $50 all together. But formed into any Gibson ES175, they become several orders of magnitude more valued in some contexts, say, jazz guitarists. Pass that modestly valued raw material assembled into that guitar into the hands of a master player, and another value context kicks in, just as meaningful and valid as the others.

    it's just a reality of human material culture: multiple, simultaneous value matrices exist and define the worth of any given object.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by 55bar View Post
    Agreed, I'm trying to figure out how the the lacquer got worn so much just on the top above the 15th fret. Any ideas?
    There's a Library Of Congress ( ? ) interview where he talks about looking down at his guitar while he was in the house band for the merv griffin show & noticing he'd worn the finish away by resting his chin on his hands just there.... no idea if this is the guitar but he decided it was time to leave...that & having to turn down Miles because he didn't have the chops anymore...

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by dot75 View Post
    There's a Library Of Congress ( ? ) interview where he talks about looking down at his guitar while he was in the house band for the merv griffin show & noticing he'd worn the finish away by resting his chin on his hands just there.... no idea if this is the guitar but he decided it was time to leave.
    hah..yeah thats the one he used on merv...that was his main guitar for years!!...until it was to frail to take out on the road anymore and jimmy D..built him a new one...btw jimmy D made him 2 before he finally got the third perfect for jim!! and based on the es 175 feel

    cheers

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cunamara View Post
    GVE apparently also built a working large scale model steam locomotive because he heard someone say it couldn't be done. At least that's my recollection of the story, which I think was in Ted Greene's profile of him in Guitar Player in the early 80s. Could be my memory is on the fritz again. Maybe somebody's got that GP issue handy.
    true!...as i posted ^ he had clockworks engineering skills..

    heres the gp interview with ted greene...

    http://www.tedgreene.com/images/pdf/..._Interview.pdf

    theres also an unedited audio tape of the interview..available at teds site and on youtube as well

    TedGreene.com - Audio - Ted Greene, George Van Eps Interview


    cheers

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D View Post
    - liked the close-up of the Van Eps damper.......never knew that plate was screwed to the headstock........

    thanks
    I think it was just the early van eps string dampers that were like that. I had one, which had a full plate to replace the truss rod cover. Here is mine:
    Keith
    Jim Hall's 175 up close!-image-jpg

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic View Post
    the later gibson made versions used the trussrod cover holes

    cheers
    I agree that Jim's damper was an early version. Are you sure Gibson made the later ones? It seems unlikely because the three holes do not line up with a Gibson truss rod cover (which only has two screws). I posted a picture (above) of the one I had on a 175 and I had to drill an extra hole to make it fit.
    Keith