Best Neck Pickup for Gibson Les Paul Custom?

[Stringswinger]

Because of the production cost of a particular batch of parts' bulk buy at a certain point on time.

Don't forget that Gibson buys everything by brokerage, that's why specs keeps changing on many items, specially p'ups.

Sorry to hurt your fanboiness, I just deal with facts, not perception.

HTH,

We all perceive "facts" in a different manner. Unless you were in the boardroom with Henry J or his top execs, or know someone who was, your conclusion is an "opinion". While I might admit, that based on your prolific internet posts and experience as a guitar tech, you might qualify as an "expert witness", my years as a practicing trial lawyer taught me that testimony from an expert witness, while helpful, is never as good as the testimony of an actual witness to an event.

[Stringswinger]

I want to thank all who replied on this thread. Your opinions were all helpful in my thought process.

Some of you suggested various boutique makers. (that would entail more money than I want to spend. I am sure that every maker suggested makes wonderful pickups)

Lt. Kojak suggested a magnet swap (the most economical choice, but I want to keep the original parts unmolested)

Some of you suggested non humbuckers (I am a fan of the humbucker sound, but I have no doubt that those choices would sound great as well)

Some of you suggested the 57 Classic or the Duncan 59 (I suspect either of these choices might work)

One generous forum member offered to send me a box of pups to try (I am not that big a fan of soldering, but thanks again for the offer!)

Some of you suggested that I try my vintage PUP (This makes the most sense to me. I have the pup, was reluctant to part with it due to its rarity and can now put it to good use).

I have sourced a set of vintage gold polepieces (at a very fair price) for my vintage pup and they are on the way along with a new Gibson gold cover (the price of a vintage gold cover was stupid high). When those parts get here, I will get the pup ready for installation and will then put it in the guitar. The old pup will remain in the case unmolested. I will take the guitar out on a gig or two and will revive this thread (if it is not still active, Gibson threads and pickup threads have a way of lasting a long time here) and report back. I have a couple of pre-T-top pups in my 63 ES-175 and think they sound great. I suspect this one will as well.

[LtKojak]

We all perceive "facts" in a different manner.

What part of, and I quote myself, "I've dissected and reverse-engineered quite a few Classic '57/Classic '57+, all three BBs and the 490R/T and 490R/498T sets" you did not understand? Maybe the "DISSECTED AND REVERSE-ENGINEERED" part, as you don't know exactly what it means and/or what it does entail?

your conclusion is an "opinion".

The sometimes wild swinging p'up data I've collected through the years is NOT an opinion, is a FACT, as stated in black and white, what allows me to say what I said.

my years as a practicing trial lawyer taught me that testimony from an expert witness, while helpful, is never as good as the testimony of an actual witness to an event.

To keep the court analogy, let's say you provide a document saying that there's no pollutants in a lake's water, so you can use use it as a source of watering of corn crops intended for human consumption.

Then I present a Lab's final test results of the analysis of the same body of water, showing that the pollutant levels are, in fact, lethal. Am I still an "expert witness"? I don't think so.

But is ok. We're not in court. Anyway, your Honor! I rest my case! Pun intended.

[Stringswinger]

What part of, and I quote myself, "I've dissected and reverse-engineered quite a few Classic '57/Classic '57+, all three BBs and the 490R/T and 490R/498T sets" you did not understand? Maybe the "DISSECTED AND REVERSE-ENGINEERED" part, as you don't know exactly what it means and/or what it does entail?


The sometimes wild swinging p'up data I've collected through the years is NOT an opinion, is a FACT, as stated in black and white, what allows me to say what I said.


To keep the court analogy, let's say you provide a document saying that there's no pollutants in a lake's water, so you can use use it as a source of watering of corn crops intended for human consumption.

Then I present a Lab's final test results of the analysis of the same body of water, showing that the pollutant levels are, in fact, lethal. Am I still an "expert witness"? I don't think so.

But is ok. We're not in court. Anyway, your Honor! I rest my case! Pun intended.

Pepe,

I have already conceded your expertise with pickups. It is your expertise in Gibson's corporate decisions that I find questionable. Sorry if that offends. I have no intention of getting into an insult war with you on this forum (I certainly understand the concept of reverse engineering). It would neither entertain me nor provide any useful purpose, especially because I mostly find your posts here somewhat informative.

BTW, here in America, only Judges may be called "your honor". A lowly lawyer such as myself is more properly addressed as "Counselor". HTH

[LtKojak]

It is your expertise in Gibson's corporate decisions that I find questionable.

Oh, I see.

TBH, as a matter of fact, on this particular subject I don't have any corporate document like invoices or memos. So yes, my statement is the only plausible explanation for the constant spec swing throughout the years, and this is the very definition of, even though I'd consider it mostly "an educated guess", an opinion.

I read it wrong, I thought you were questioning my abilty to gather the data.

So, I stand corrected, and I humbly apologize for the misunderstanding, Stringswinger.

Yours very truly,

[neatomic]

ss im giving wide berth to all the fireworks, but i dont quite understand what solution you've arrived at??

you got gold screw polepieces and gold covers for your vintage 63 pups??

if so, thats (pretty much) a purely cosmetic change..and be super careful with changing the screws as removal/install could short the coil wrap..not really recommended!!!


cheers

[Stringswinger]

Pepe: Con Rispetto Signore

Neatomic: Thanks, I intend to be careful. The PUP is from a 1963 ES 335 and the gold polepieces are from a 1965 ES 345. I am hoping for a smooth transition.

[LtKojak]

changing the screws as removal/install could short the coil wrap.

Sorry, but something even remotely similar happening is simply not physically possible in a humbucker p'up.



That's what a humbucker p'up looks like. I thought you'd like to know.

HTH,

[old tube]

Can't you live with gold covers and nickel screws?

If you are going to change the pole screws in your '63, change them over one at a time. i.e. take one out, put replacement in, before moving to the next one. Whatever you do don't over tighten them. I'd a friend a few years ago who ruined a PAF doing this. Reason, the bobbin was warped ... as a lot of them are (60 years old plastic) and he ended up cracking it and broke the insulation somewhere. Yes, he was probably not careful enough and he had removed all the screws allowing the bobbin to warp more then tightened it back down. But he now has a PAF with one replacement bobbin.

[LtKojak]

Great! Even more hearsay...

[old tube]

Not hearsay, witnessed experience .... shared to hopefully help someone not have the same bad experience ..

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'd make sure I had the current pickup dialed in as well as I could, first. A good recipe for eliminating neck mud is to drop the body of the pickup and then raise the polepieces back to spec. That will go a ways towards clarifying your sound. While you're at it, you can fine-tune it by varying the individual pole-piece heights to give you the response curve you want.

If that didn't do the trick, I'd get a humbucker-sized P-90 and give it another go. Dialing out treble is much easier than tweaking out mud. That's why our amps have tone knobs.

[Stringswinger]

Not hearsay, witnessed experience .... shared to hopefully help someone not have the same bad experience ..

Old Tube,

I have swapped out polepieces on old PUPs before without issue. I am always quite careful. Thanks for sharing your friends experience.

[Stringswinger]

I'd make sure I had the current pickup dialed in as well as I could, first. A good recipe for eliminating neck mud is to drop the body of the pickup and then raise the polepieces back to spec. That will go a ways towards clarifying your sound. While you're at it, you can fine-tune it by varying the individual pole-piece heights to give you the response curve you want.

If that didn't do the trick, I'd get a humbucker-sized P-90 and give it another go. Dialing out treble is much easier than tweaking out mud. That's why our amps have tone knobs.

Thump, I have tried every possible position of the PUP. This PUP just doesn't get the tone that is in my head. P-90's have never worked for me either. Besides, I hate the buzz.

[neatomic]

That's what a humbucker p'up looks like. I thought you'd like to know.

hey bud, you're wound hotter than an 80's dimarzio!!..if just talking about pickups "winds" you up this much...i can only imagine what italian politics does to you!!! haha

in this thread alone, you've trash talked modern gibson pickups, and & bunch of your fellow forumites

any knowledge you so proudly possess, without compassion, gets you nowhere

back up and relax

furthermore, we are talking about tweaking (for cosmetic purposes only) a 54 year old pickup here!!!...54 year old plastic and wire and magnets...if you don't believe things can go wrong when tweaking with that kinda vintage...well good luck

hate to be anything less than positve here on this beautiful forum, but come on..be nice

pace

cheers

[Thumpalumpacus]

Thump, I have tried every possible position of the PUP. This PUP just doesn't get the tone that is in my head. P-90's have never worked for me either. Besides, I hate the buzz.

Okay... just offering what insight I have.

[LtKojak]

you've trash talked modern gibson pickups

Now saying their specs swing like a swing in a children's park, something I've personally experienced for over fifteen years and continue to experience to this day is trash talk? I think you should revise your definition of "trash talk", if you ask me.

If I said that they sound like garbage, THAT would be trash talk. But, as you can check for yourself, never did.

we are talking about tweaking (for cosmetic purposes only) a 54 year old pickup here!!!...54 year old plastic and wire and magnets...if you don't believe things can go wrong when tweaking with that kinda vintage...well good luck

Everything can go wrong if you don't know what you're doing. And by telling old wives' tales of woe to our forumite Stringswinger, by definition of intent, you're telling him that's he doesn't know what he's doing and it's better if he didn't do it at all. Now, if this is not condescending talk, I just don't know what it is.

I know you mean well... but then again, as they say, "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions"

To close my argument: Stringswinger: go ahead and mod the p'up, you don't have nothing to worry about. But, as I like to put my money where my mouth is, then, publically, I'll offer to fix for free said p'up if something related to the mod should happen to it. What about that?

Peace. Out.

[Stringswinger]

Got my parts. Here is the 63 PUP with nickel cover and polepieces:

The polepiece swap was a breeze. Here is the pup with the 65 polepieces and a Gibson Custom shop historic gold cover:

Next step is to R and R the pup in the Lester. I will do that in a few days, use it on a couple of gigs and report back.