The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I thought the time in life had come to buy a Gibson ES-175 until I went to a couple of guitar stores and tried them.

    The construction is great, no doubt. However, the necks are very round, the frets didn't do it for me, the out-the-box factory set-up was awful and the factory strings on all were shocking. It killed the experience for me as I've wanted one for a long time. Anyway, I was left feeling the neck on many less expensive guitars was better for me and that convinced me that a more playable "gigger" was a better option (although I did love the neck set and angle on the 175).

    Does anyone have any opinions or experience of the following 175 inspired guitars or alternative suggestions?

    Peerless Gigmaster Jazz
    Ibanez akj 95
    Eastman AR372 CE
    Loar LH 280 CSN

    PS I play some jazz, chet picking, blues, rockabilly, western swing etc and I gig quite regularly - hence why I liked the twin the pick ups.

    Thanks in advance.

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  3. #2

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    The Peerless Gigmaster looks like a great guitar for a great price.

    While I haven't played this one, I played and almost bought a Peerless Sunset--great build quality, very playable. The only minor issues would be somewhat thick poly finish and Epi Classic 57 pickups, which some might want to replace. the frets are also jumbo, which are smooth but take a little getting used to.

    I would also throw Godin into the mix: I really love their thinline Premiere. For a larger-body guitar the Jazz (with floating pickup) and Composer with set pickups are superlative in terms of quality and playability.

  4. #3

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    To me the defining characteristics of the 175 are ...

    16" x c. 3" laminate body
    24.75" scale
    mahogany neck with a rosewood fretboard

    I'm not aware of any current off the shelf guitars that meet that spec other than the 175 ...

  5. #4

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    A 175 is a good deal deeper than 3"

  6. #5

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    That extra 3/8th" makes a difference

  7. #6

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    i stand corrected - 3 3/8" deep!

  8. #7

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    The body of my ES175 is 4" at the deepest point, 20" long and 16" at the lower bout.

    I don't have an AKJ 95 but I do have an AKF95 , same guitar but with a venetian cutaway.

    a : Length 19 1/2"
    b : Width 15 3/4"
    c : Max Depth 3 5/8"

    The super 58 customs are very similar to classic 57's using the same amp EQ's. But on this one I have changed the pickups to classic 57's fitted a Tonepros locking bridge and changed the tailpiece. The sound is similar to my ES175 but the smaller body makes it slightly brighter, it is also lighter and more comfortable.

    Who Makes the Best ES-175 Clones?-afj95-2-jpg

    Who Makes the Best ES-175 Clones?-afj95-3-jpg

    Who Makes the Best ES-175 Clones?-afj95-4-jpg
    Last edited by TonyB56; 03-12-2014 at 02:03 PM.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyB56
    The body of my ES175 is 4" at the deepest point, 20" long and 16" at the lower bout
    That IS a fat 175! Where is it 4" deep?

  10. #9

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    Measured with the bridge pickup out just under 4" but allowing for the thickness of the back it's 4".
    Not very scientific I know but I've just laid the guitar on a hard level desk and used a level from the centre of the guitar at the bridge and it actually measures 4 1/4" inches overall
    Last edited by TonyB56; 03-12-2014 at 02:57 PM.

  11. #10

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    OK, understand now..I was quoting the 3, 3/8th" depth at the rim. It's how relative guitar depth is normally compared - altho as you point out, they are all fatter than they seem..

  12. #11

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    My Ibanez LGB300 is 4 1/4" inches as well, probably why they make my arm ache lol, I play the AFJ95 most it's only 3/58"

  13. #12

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    tony, it's probably the maple neck that makes your 'banez brighter.

  14. #13

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    nothing I've played sounds like a 175. The ibanez 175 style guitars almost all have a maple neck which totally changes the tone. They sound brighter. I tried a maple neck gibson 74 175 like the one that kreisberg plays. It has that thunky attack like a 175 but is brighter. It's a cool sounding guitar but didn't have the classic 175 tone ala joe pass joy spring IMO.

    I went through 5 as well as a number of boutique and non boutique plywood top guitars in the last 6 months and ended up with an '88 with mahogany back and sides. You can hear it hear although this was about a foot away from the mics so there's a lot of string and pick attack.



    IMO, it's worth seeking out the real thing. I'm waiting for some decent clips to show up of the eastman AR371/372 but haven't heard any that convince me that it's anything close. A buddy of mine just bought one and I'm awaiting a clip from him. I'll post it here when he publishes it.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    nothing I've played sounds like a 175. The ibanez 175 style guitars almost all have a maple neck which totally changes the tone. They sound brighter. I tried a maple neck gibson 74 175 like the one that kreisberg plays. It has that thunky attack like a 175 but is brighter. It's a cool sounding guitar but didn't have the classic 175 tone ala joe pass joy spring IMO. I went through 5 as well as a number of boutique and non boutique plywood top guitars in the last 6 months and ended up with an '88 with mahogany back and sides. You can hear it hear although this was about a foot away from the mics so there's a lot of string and pick attack.
    IMO, it's worth seeking out the real thing. I'm waiting for some decent clips to show up of the eastman AR371/372 but haven't heard any that convince me that it's anything close. A buddy of mine just bought one and I'm awaiting a clip from him. I'll post it here when he publishes it.
    What's the neck profile like on your '88 compared to the other 175's you tried?

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by L4CESN
    What's the neck profile like on your '88 compared to the other 175's you tried?
    They've all been pretty close, even the '70s one. I'd call them a medium C. Chunkier than the eastman necks but not a boat neck. Chunkier than the 339 30/60 neck and more rounded. Extremely comfortable. I have small hands and like to use my thumb for some chords and it works out for me. The '50s necks are chunky and the late '60s necks are really narrow at the nut.

  17. #16
    Thanks for the answers so far, particularly TonyB56 who's answer was very useful.

    Thanks for the Gibson 175 answers but I'm pretty sure I won't go down that road as I don't like the neck profile. I can live with tonal differences but not a neck I don't like playing.

    any other advice greatly received?

    Thanks

  18. #17

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    you'll get used to the neck IMO. It feels great to me and it's different than the profile on any of my other guitars. Yet, it's my favorite instrument probably in the last 20 years.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    tony, it's probably the maple neck that makes your 'banez brighter.
    The necks are actually 3 piece mahogany and maple but you are right, I hadn't even thought about that, too obvious for me I'm not very bright these days (unlike the guitar). Nice sounding 175 J and great picking technique, I don't find the 175 neck profile that chunky but then I have big hands. I bought an ES339 with the 30/60 neck, made a mistake getting it really, I find the neck a bit slim for me.
    Last edited by TonyB56; 03-13-2014 at 06:19 AM.

  20. #19

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    I played a 2012 ES 175 and a Peerless Gigmaster SC (the ES 295 clone) back to back and I found the Peerless a better player.
    The ES 175 had finish issues with the sunburst, the lacquer felt sticky and for £2400 with case I was not impressed.
    However the Peerless ticked all the boxes and for £599 with case was a better deal IMO.
    I came close to buying that Peerless but I wasn't there to purchase a guitar and the credit card was not that flexible.

    But I will add that you find 'that' guitar one day, just don't fill your head with 'ifs and buts'.

  21. #20

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    better guitar is subjective. The peerless sounds nothing like a classic 175. The gibson setups leave something to be desired but there is no other guitar that sounds like a 175 IMO.

    Unfortunately, I have heard stories of folks that buy a new 175 and have to get it planed and refretted right from the factory.

  22. #21

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    I've heard enough variability in 175's to honestly say that (IMO) the 175 itself has a spectrum of sound and playability making pigeonholing "the" 175 sound a bit elusive. Even members here have or have had numerous 175's gotta be a reason.

    While not a "175" for my take I could easily live with a Heritage 575 and not look at another 175 again even though the 575 has a slightly slimmer body and solid back and top. But.... 575's have gotten nearly as pricey as 175's too.

    As far as comparing the 175 to an Ibanez, or other... dunno there.

    I think your best bet is to start with anything in your budget you like to play, Maybe an Epi 175? There's one on Feebay now in the $600 range now. With it or another decent guitar you can hold off for a 175 you like at a later date.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI
    I've heard enough variability in 175's to honestly say that (IMO) the 175 itself has a spectrum of sound and playability making pigeonholing "the" 175 sound a bit elusive. Even members here have or have had numerous 175's gotta be a reason.
    Right but it was worth going through 4 or 5 175s to get one that sounded great. Everyone seems to be in quick fix mode these days. If the first example you play doesn't sound right or play right you just give up on it. For us old timers, we used to go into a music shop and play up to 10 different examples of one model until we found one we liked. Someone , that entire line of thinking seems to be obsolete to some but it still remains true to this day. Wood is organic and construction quality and wear and tear vary.

    On the other hand, if the 175 tone of guys like Joe Pass, Jim Hall and Jonathan Kreisberg doesn't hit you in the gut and give you chills and if you're just looking for a utilitarian tone of maybe you're in search of a great jazz guitar tone and just not necessarily a 175 than by all means get whatever turns you on. All I'm saying is that if you want a 175 tone, only a 175 will get that tone.

  24. #23
    just to throw in another 5c - I recently got a '61 es175, with 2PAFs... dont want to nurture a myth, but this guitar DOES sound very different to modern versions of the type... She has, quasi 'automatic', 'that sound', without doing much from the player's perspective... and her tone controls are incredibly expressive... best of all is the fact that the bridge pickup is very useful, is sings, rather than has this thin sound that one rather avoids...


  25. #24
    Hi, thanks for the recent reponses. Important update that many will probably know of but I had missed.

    after posting this I went back to my local shop/store to try the guitar again where the sales guy (who is good) pointed out that Gibson basically makes two necks these days across all the models, What I thought of as the "baseball bat" neck is the deep C profile 50s neck on the reissue and the other on the stamdard ES 175 is the Les Paul style neck.

    I'm now interested in the 175 again and waiting for them to get the VSB standard in to try. i'll know in a few weeks when it arrives in the shop.

  26. #25

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    I am going to be getting a new guitar after hopefully selling some things. My goal is to make right the wrong I did 15 years ago when I sold my Gibson Tal Farlow to Sam Ash for money to buy a bass bow. I was young and stupid. I so wish that I still had that guitar.

    So my first thought is to get another one, but perhaps an ES-175 - a guitar I have always wanted since I started listening to jazz - would be another option.

    There are just so many copies of it. One I saw tonight was the Ibanez AKJ 95. Everyone who got one likes it, 600 bucks new, bang for the buck etc. I even have a Gibson Burstbucker sitting around waiting for a guitar to be put into if I didn't like the pickups. There's the Eastman copy, the lawsuit guitars from Ibanez, Epiphone (honestly not in the running) etc.

    So I am wondering, do I go with the name on the headstock? My brain says no, but still I am having a lot of trouble deciding.