The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Posts 76 to 100 of 199
  1. #76

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    A used Heritage 575 would do you real good.
    That might be my favorite of the bunch but not strictly a clone/copy given that the body is carved as opposed to laminate.


    I'll add the AR371CESB and AR372 to the list of excellent candidates.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by blille; 08-29-2017 at 01:34 AM.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #77

    User Info Menu

    Be aware that amongst the Japanese copies there is a lot of variation, as even guitars of the same brand were sourced out to different factories. A 175-clone with an Ibanez brand name can have a maple neck or mahogany, different body woods (veneers) and shapes, different construction (I have seen guitars without kerfed rims inside, no parallel bracing and a sound post). They do seem pretty consistent in neck shape and fretboards. In my experience the best Japanese copies are the ones that stay closest to the original design and the market seems to agree since those are more expensive, well over $1000.

  4. #78

    User Info Menu

    There's a brand called "Archtop Tribute" available from Walkin Guitars in Japan. Visit www.walkin.co.jp, select "ATC/Archtop Tribute" from the menu on the left.

    These are apparently built from the same woods as the Gibson ES-175, and to the extent they have a reputation in the USA it's good.

    They seem to have two lines: the higher-dollar ATC, and the lower-priced Archtop Tribute. A single-pickup ES-175 reproduction costs about US$2100 for ATC ATC175, US$1200 for Archtop Tribute AT-102

    I have no idea whether these are available outside of Japan. And no, I haven't played one.
    Last edited by dconeill; 08-29-2017 at 03:46 AM.

  5. #79

    User Info Menu

    On the copies, one thing I notice, which may not matter to many but matters if you want an "exact' clone: most of the clones/copies of the ES175 have a scarf joint and heel-splice in the neck, whereas the Gibson are one-piece necks.

    Even the wonderful Matsumoku made 1970's copies often have a heel splice, if not a scarf joint. Some also have the 2-piece neck with the seam running longitudinally. The Epiphone ES175 Premium has a small joint right at the neck heel, maybe .5" but otherwise no scarf joint and not the traditional heel splice.

    Like I said, this doesn't matter structurally to most folks, and I doubt it matters in terms of tone, but it is a detail that some would be concerned about. If you are really looking for an exact copy, these would be things you'd want to know.
    Last edited by lawson-stone; 08-29-2017 at 08:21 AM.

  6. #80

    User Info Menu

    People still can't distinguish Metheny playing his 175 or an Ibanez. Don't look at guitars, close your eyes and listen.

  7. #81

    User Info Menu

    Aria Pro II PE-175 (Herb Ellis model) is quite good. It worked well enough for Ellis that he played it for years. Made by Matsumoku during their best years.
    Who Makes the Best ES-175 Clones?-aria-pe-175-jpg

  8. #82

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    Aria Pro II PE-175 (Herb Ellis model) is quite good. It worked well enough for Ellis that he played it for years. Made by Matsumoku during their best years.
    Who Makes the Best ES-175 Clones?-aria-pe-175-jpg
    That guitar is such an interesting combination of features. The L5ces body shape in the 175 16" size; the L5 tailpiece, the Super V fret markers, and the "175" moniker. It's almost like somebody said "You know I want an ES175 that looks like an L5ces..."

    And I have never heard a bad word spoken about these guitars, either. Only very high praise from folks whose opinions have, in my experience, always proven reliable.

  9. #83

    User Info Menu

    Here is a video I made testing a 2004 ES-175, 2000 Ibanez PM100 and a '77 D'Agostino 175 lawsuit guitar. I rolled the tone back about 1/4 on them because so many people like to do that even though I don't usually and I remember that was a criticism from some people here because it made them sound too similar but in real life they do sound very similar.

    I am actually thinking of selling the 175 because the PM100 is by far my favorite of the three. It is not a cheap guitar though, and it both is and isn't a clone. What I mean is that it was based on Metheny's old 175 and the neck shape is apparently the same as his 175, plywood body constructed like it as well except with dual cutaways and excellent upper fret access that I have never experienced on any other archtop. On the bandstand I think it sounds best, it is the most comfortable and has a surprisingly good acoustic sound. The neck is thinner than what most would expect from a 175 but that is apparently how Metheny's 175 neck is so it isn't inaccurate.

    The 2004 175 has a much thicker neck. Other than that it is just what you would expect from a 175.

    The D'Agostino is similar to Ibanez, Greco and other lawsuit 175 guitars from the '70s and they were all made in the same factories - at least I know in '77 they were. It has no internal bracing and a thick soundpost block, which is common in some of the 175 copies from that period. The neck radius is more curved than a real 175 and the profile is more of a D shape than a C shape. It is a great guitar though and sounds great. It doesn't look like a '77 - it has held up very well and looks practically new. There are pictures in the video.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  10. #84

    User Info Menu

    I appreciate all of the detailed information.
    Keep it coming!
    Was there a budget version of the PM100? If so, how was the quality? I suspect the neck profile would be a bit slim for me, though.
    Also, keep in mind guitars which are readily available. I don't mind waiting a bit for the right guitar, but I am anxious to plug in and play before too terribly long! I have been a lifelong acoustic player, and am now chomping at the bit to get a good guitar to pursue my jazz aspirations. My acoustics are all 12 fret models, so I am limited a bit with those. They sound great for country blues and rags, though!

  11. #85

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by TN Pat
    I appreciate all of the detailed information.
    Keep it coming!
    Was there a budget version of the PM100? If so, how was the quality? I suspect the neck profile would be a bit slim for me, though.
    Also, keep in mind guitars which are readily available. I don't mind waiting a bit for the right guitar, but I am anxious to plug in and play before too terribly long! I have been a lifelong acoustic player, and am now chomping at the bit to get a good guitar to pursue my jazz aspirations. My acoustics are all 12 fret models, so I am limited a bit with those. They sound great for country blues and rags, though!
    There wasn't - there was a thinner depth two pickup version but it was the same price/quality and made in Japan. The current PM models have a cheap and expensive model though - I really wanted the 100 though so I haven't checked out the new ones. I have read good things on the forums about it though.

    The PM100 neck is thin but not too thin (for me). I have played some Ibanez archtops where the neck is way too thin to be comfortable and this one is thin but still has a little meat - except for my L5 it is my favorite neck of all my guitars.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  12. #86

    User Info Menu

    No budget version of the PM 100. There is a budget version of the PM 200. It's called the PM 2. It is _considerably_ cheaper. Never played it though.

  13. #87

    User Info Menu

    It would help if the OP would specify price range.

    "The best" ES-175 clone would be pretty expensive. I suppose the Ibanez PM-200 and the Sadowsky Jim Hall models are ES175 clones, and their prices are around $3K and $5K.

    Absent price range, many of the responses probably won't be useful to the OP.

  14. #88

    User Info Menu

    I don't think the aria sounds much like a 175 though and neither do the Eastmans. I've also owned the ibanez 175 copy and I don't think it sounds like a 175 though it's quite a bit different with its maple neck. Maybe it sounds more like a mid '70s 175 but it doesn't sound anything like the mahogany neck 175s that I know and love...

    [edit] oh - and I've owned several PM120s and PM100s and they are great guitars but also don't nail the 175 vibe IMO.

    Some will say that 175s themselves don't sound like each other and I agree but yet, most sound like brothers or sisters.

    However, whiskey is right. They are all great guitars and are in the same general tonal family if even they sound more like cousins than brothers...

    One guitar that does sound like a 175 is the deviser (seventy seven) hawk. It's the closest of anything I have tried. I have borrowed one that I'm going to do a demo of when I get some time.

    Here's a video I did of the herb ellis model. It sounds great but is brighter with a more bensony attack than the gibson.

    Last edited by jzucker; 08-29-2017 at 04:07 PM.

  15. #89

    User Info Menu

    Hey, Jack.

    +1 The PE-175 doesn't sound _like_ the ES-175. What it does sound like is GREAT! It is a very well executed laminate-body archtop 16" guitar.

    The ES-175 is also a very well executed laminate-body archtop 16" guitar.

    The similarity is rather like that that runs beween Heritage and Gibson archtop guitars. I don't find the H575 to be a copy of a 175, but I sure like both of them. Neither do I find it to be a copy of the L-4CES, but--again--I sure do like both of them. Great guitars.

  16. #90

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    But the OP's original question was about 175 copies. It isn't answering his question to say "don't worry about the kind of guitar." He's got his reasons, and we're all just trying to help him answer his totally legitimate question.
    Fair point Lawson, and point noted. I did assume the OP was seeking the "sound" not so much the exact "look". In hindsight I can see how words have been (fairly) misinterpreted; when I said close your eyes...I wasn't saying Don't be at all concerned with esthetics, but rather "Pat's Ibanez doesn't LOOK like a 175, but it can/has filled the 175 void for a great player who has publicly claimed to "love the 175 more than anyone". Again, not that anyone could be expected to draw conclusion from reading rather than talking face to face over a cup of coffee.

  17. #91

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey02
    Fair point Lawson, and point noted. I did assume the OP was seeking the "sound" not so much the exact "look". In hindsight I can see how words have been (fairly) misinterpreted; when I said close your eyes...I wasn't saying Don't be at all concerned with esthetics, but rather "Pat's Ibanez doesn't LOOK like a 175, but it can/has filled the 175 void for a great player who has publicly claimed to "love the 175 more than anyone". Again, not that anyone could be expected to draw conclusion from reading rather than talking face to face over a cup of coffee.
    Good point too. I guess I also don't think of how a 175 looks as merely aesthetics. The shape, size, construction, all come together in producing the peculiar mix of playability and tone that we all love with the ES175. But your point about Pat's Ibanez is well taken. Thanks for taking the time for a reply!

  18. #92

    User Info Menu

    The PM100 also doesn't sound like a 175 - it sounds better.
    ...
    Haha, I'm joking a little bit but that is the guitar I grab when I want a 175 sound more than my actual 175. It is just such a good guitar, so comfortable to play, super high end fit and finish (much better in this regard than the real 175). The look of the Gibson is of course awesome and iconic so that is hard to beat but I also really like the quirky and elegant (to me) look of the PM100. I'm surprised there aren't more players out there giggling with them. I have read the complaint that they are more susceptible to feedback, and that is true but not in any way that has kept me from taking it out on loud gigs. It isn't like my Eastman 805ce where I look at it the wrong way and it starts feeding back but that is not a comparison I am trying to make given the very different constructions, just talking feedback and that guitar comes to mind. I am still keeping my eyes open for a "real" 175 to replace my current "real" 175 to see if I can find one that will replace the PM100 but I honestly don't know if that will happen. Granted I only have played the one PM100 any time recent enough to remember (I played a few in the late '90s but I was too young and inexperienced to have taken anything away from that) and maybe I got a very good one but given the consistency of high end Ibanez guitars I feel comfortable saying that it is not just a 175 clone, it actually improved on the original while still keeping the same vibe. Even with the different looks it keeps the same aesthetics and you can tell what it owes its visual design to.

    I am very curious about the new ones - the PM2 and 200. Anyone have any experience with them? I have no reason to get one but with my 5th Ibanez on the way (6 if you count the off brand lawsuit built in the same factory) and roughly 40% of my guitar collection being Ibanez I am half jokingly considering getting as many high end Ibanez guitars as I can to horde them.

  19. #93

    User Info Menu

    The best ES-175 clones are made by...



    ... Gibson. They really only make clones of their glory days instruments, since Henry J took over.

    As Jack notes, there is no such thing as a singular ES-175 sound. Jim Hall's '54 sounded different with the P90 than with the Guild humbucker. In both cases it sounded different from Joe Pass's '61 (62?) and more different still from Steve Howe's '64. All of those sound different from Metheny's '58. Etc. But there is a commonality there, too.

  20. #94

    User Info Menu

    I appreciate all of the input here. I purposely did not specify a price range because I wanted a broader view of the options available. Having said that, I currently am looking in the $1000 and below range, unless I sell one of my acoustics, which would potentially double that.
    All in all, I just want a dependable workhorse which is tonally, aesthetically, and ergonomically pleasing.
    And as far as tone and aesthetics go, I think the ES-175 is one of the sexiest! They have appealed to me for many years. And though it is largely cosmetic, I have always preferred the look of a Florentine cutaway.

  21. #95

    User Info Menu

    I wanted an archtop to get my feet wet with as i am just recently back to guitar after a long time off.

    I got an AR371, mostly based on it's good reviews and value point. I love the look of the florentine cutout too. While loving the playability, I was at first put off by the brightness of it's tone. But after replacing the anemic KA pickup with a Lollar and going with darker strings, La Bella 20PCMs, I really am happy with the warm rich 175ish tones I'm getting with it.

    All up it is right around $1050 total.

    Hope this helps!

  22. #96

    User Info Menu

    in that price range I'd look at the ibanez or greco copies. they will sound much more like a real 175 than the eastman which really don't have much of the 175 vibe . There's a great looking ibanez 175 copy in the forum at a reasonable price.

  23. #97

    User Info Menu

    Cunamara is right--there is a great range of sound across the real ES-175 models.

    Jack Z is correct that the Ibanez and Greco copies are quite excellent for the money. They really feel/sound like the real thing. I can remember when you could walk into Veneman Music in the DC area and pick up a new ES-175 for $400. The Ibanez next to it was $300. The Bradley next to that (Veneman's house brand) was $275. I played them all and thought--damned, they are all great.

  24. #98

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    Cunamara is right--there is a great range of sound across the real ES-175 models.

    Jack Z is correct that the Ibanez and Greco copies are quite excellent for the money. They really feel/sound like the real thing. I can remember when you could walk into Veneman Music in the DC area and pick up a new ES-175 for $400. The Ibanez next to it was $300. The Bradley next to that (Veneman's house brand) was $275. I played them all and thought--damned, they are all great.
    I remember those days as well. And the prices quoted above also equated to many folk's monthly salaries at the time!

    Hey, didn't Gibson originally name their ES models after the approximate price of the guitars? (ES175 cost $175; ES225 cost $225; etc.)

    Now back to your regularly scheduled thread topic.

  25. #99

    User Info Menu

    Yep. ES-175 meant (in 1949) that the guitar sold for $175. The ES-350 at that point was, you guessed it, $350. Was the 350 twice as good? No, but it WAS better.

  26. #100

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone
    Yep. ES-175 meant (in 1949) that the guitar sold for $175. The ES-350 at that point was, you guessed it, $350. Was the 350 twice as good? No, but it WAS better.
    According to an online inflation calculator $175 in 1949 is only $1799 in 2017 ! That sounds about right for a well made, mass produced, North American laminate archtop