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  1. #1

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    So i know this has been covered in Jorges original thread "polytone in a pedal" but since theres been some confusion and several builders/versions i sincerely hope it is ok with yet another thread on the subject.
    A couple gentlemen from the forum aquired my unit, id prefer to keep the feedback/impressions seperate as they are not identical.

    The core circuits are more or less the same, i took the liberty to add a couple features to make it as versatile as possible not only to replicate the Polytone character but also as a general usefull "jazz" eq when used in front of other amplifiers.

    1.It runs on 9V DC (standard/Boss type negative center pin), internal bipolar/split rail supply for more headroom.

    2.Main circuit is a stock polytone pre amp, i added a gain control (= master volume to control the overall output), by its nature its a true pre amp and with the gain/master dimed it can, depending on your setup, push a lower wattage tube amp into clipping.
    3.I kept the org brite switch but left out the dark setting.
    4. Mid control is tweaked (thanks Chris) to cut/boost in the lower mids as opposed to the stock polytone (with mids control) circuits nasal higher mids.
    5. I added a active variable highpass filter (jorges sublime idea from the get go in 2015), it starts cutting sub 80Hz and and then up to a little over ca. 300hz - UPDATE 26/5-2020 - the filter range on all current versions post V1.0 (with the EDGE control, read below please) is 40-140Hz - The High Pass filter on the LARGE unit is seperate from the main circuit so it is useable by its own in if the main pre amp is bypassed, on the SMALL the high pass filter is engaged along with the pedal on/off.
    6. UPDATE 26/5-2020 - This additional circuitry is discontinued and ONLY PRESENT ON EARLY VERSIONS of the Brute Eq. ill leave the info here since theese occasionally show for sale used - The edge control, another add on also functional as a stand alone when the main circuit is bypassed, its a very simple circuit (based on a vintage fender 12AX7 high imp. input) that adds non clipping clean 2 order harmonics, very subtle but it adds a little clarity, punch and dynamics.
    Cheers.
    V.1 (discontinued) with EGDE control.
    Polytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-brute-eq-polytone-wallpaper-kopi-jpg

    Current Versions (2018 and present/forward).

    Polytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-brutes-std-alloy-blk-oldschool-jpg

    Last edited by jazzmus; 05-26-2020 at 03:47 AM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    jazzmus,

    You have a great pedal design. Heck, the active high pass filter is invaluable. Think of the countless times we all have wanted to tame low frequencies on Fender tweed Deluxes.

  4. #3

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    Mine arrived this morning -it looks amazing and feels great. Can't wait to hear it and experiment with.

    jazzmus loves what he does and is great to deal with.

  5. #4

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    I'm SO happy to see "my idea" going this far. To see several builders and many more clients, satisfied. Long live the "Brute EQ"!

  6. #5

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    Hear, hear! Love mine already (as you can tell from my comments in the old thread). And tweaking the mid control to cut/boost in the lower mids as opposed to the higher mids is a great idea (think good Polytone versus bad Polytone)...

  7. #6

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    Available in the UK?

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Available in the UK?
    Rob: I'm sure Jazzmus can ship one across the North Sea to Edinburgh, if you're interested. (And while you're still part of the EU, no customs...)

  9. #8
    Thank you for the kind words guys, i wholeheartedly appreciate it!

    Rob, yes of cause, pm or email me for details, one unit just made its way to NZ, the Brute eq is danish so you need nearly just reach out the window and grap it. Cheers.
    Last edited by jazzmus; 07-11-2017 at 09:04 AM.

  10. #9

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    This looks like a great piece of kit; the extra features make a great deal of sense. Great to see this development happening..

    I already have an 80s polytone baby brute, but even I am tempted!!

    I can say that the maker definitely knows what he is doing and is great to correspond with.

  11. #10

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    I put the Brute Eq in front of a henriksen head (everything flat) for the first time, and it just worked. So easy to use and controllable. The magic is definitely there. I'm a very happy chappy, Jazzmus has done a brilliant job.

  12. #11

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    Based on my first impressions, yes it will most definitely. It's a completely different beast now.

    I found that it completely balanced output, took away a boominess problem. It also removed a lot of very sensitive finger/string/fret interaction noise- a kind of very open, unmasked metallic quality that was off-putting. Overall it became warm and inviting and made me want to go places.

  13. #12

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    Another happy customer !!

    Ordered one last wednesday, et voila, it s here safe and sound on a lovely monday morning.
    Did a quick test with it : i m using an Ibanez AF155 archtop and a Boss Katana 100 amp.

    Just fantastic, now i have my own portable Polytone.

    All the strings are now balanced, like woolyhair said, no more boominess on the bass strings.
    The highpass filter works like a charm reducing some unwanted noises.
    The Edge control brings a nice clean and sharper sound to the mix.
    Overall sound just warm, clean, jazzy...

    Just the first impressions.

    And JazzMus is just a pleasure to deal with.

    Thank you Ras !

  14. #13

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    Mine arrived today -- I ordered it with the "dirtier" 4558 IC with a view to adding some colour to some very clean amps. I have only had a couple of hours to play with it today. I put it in the effects loop of a Clarus series II with a few different open- and closed-back cabinets, using a laminate hollowbody with a Biltoft CC and a Tele with a Lollar CC. I was concerned about noise from the single coils, but it wasn't a problem. I'll try it with other amps and guitars over the days to come.

    Many years ago my main amp was a MiniBrute head. Loved the tone but gave it up as underpowered for the big bands I mostly played in back then, switching to the Clarus (series I at first). I have always found the Clarii slightly sterile-sounding and over the years tried a number of tube preamps to warm them up a bit, but was never completely happy with the result. My first impression of the Brute EQ pedal is that it does what I have been searching for in this respect. A bit of warmth, some sparkle, a touch of grit.

    The Clarus has a built-in variable hi-pass filter but I found that I prefer the one in the pedal. I wasn't impressed with the pedal in front of the Clarus, but it worked like a dream in the effects loop. Next trial will be putting it in front of a powered speaker (as a surrogate for a PA).

    Ras was a pleasure to deal with and took my self-inflicted international delivery issues in stride. Nice work, and you can get it!

  15. #14

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    Mine just arrived. I haven't tried it yet, as I'm not sure which is an input and which an output (I don't use pedals...). Any advice?

    Also, I think I need a power unit. What should I use? Can batteries be fitted?


    Also, what does F/C7 and D/C7 signify?

    And HPF?

    Rob The Clueless (when it comes to technology!)

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz
    Next trial will be putting it in front of a powered speaker (as a surrogate for a PA).

    I would be interested to know if the pedal worked in front of a PA or powered speaker, let us know your findings please.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Mine just arrived. I haven't tried it yet, as I'm not sure which is an input and which an output (I don't use pedals...). Any advice?

    Also, I think I need a power unit. What should I use? Can batteries be fitted?


    Also, what does F/C7 and D/C7 signify?

    And HPF?

    Rob The Clueless (when it comes to technology!)
    Rob, i just e-mail'd you, ill Update the first post asap with the info, others have asked so you are not alone.
    Batteries are not an option, its a environmtal thing.
    The letters/weird chords are in the original Polytone P logo on the amps, i used them decoratively to, along with the name and fat B, clearly indicate the content.
    HPF is short for High pass filter.
    Last edited by jazzmus; 07-26-2017 at 12:37 PM.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Mine just arrived. I haven't tried it yet, as I'm not sure which is an input and which an output (I don't use pedals...). Any advice?
    Viewed from above, the input will be the one on the right. You can plug in your instrument there.

    The output will be the socket on the left - so you can connect a cable from there to the where you would usually plug your guitar into your amp.

    However, you might want to take a look at the back of your amp to see whether you have an FX-loop, with SEND (output) and RETURN (input).

    If so, I'd recommend going that route - connecting a cable from SEND to the pedal input, and another cable from the pedal's output to RETURN. Then plug your guitar into the amp as you usually might. (I now do the same with a looper.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Also, what does F/C7 and D/C7 signify?
    I think it alludes to polychords & Polytone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    And HPF?
    'High Pass Filter' - allows high frequencies, but tames 'boomy' lows.

    I'd definitely get a dedicated power adaptor for the pedal. (I somehow doubt whether you'll ever decide to use multiple pedals, but that can bring problems of unwanted noise in the form of buzzing/hum.)

    But you'll also need cables - if you go via the FX-loop, you can get short ones called 'patch cables'.

    Hope this helps, Rob - enjoy!
    Last edited by destinytot; 07-26-2017 at 12:43 PM. Reason: spelling

  19. #18

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    Just one other question (for now!). What's the difference between going from the pedal into the usual guitar input, as opposed to the Send/Return method? I know I'd find out quickly by trying it out, but I don't have a power unit at present.

  20. #19

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    Okay, we actually found a Boss 9v power supply in the house, so I've tried the pedal out. I can say it is most definitely an improvement over going straight into my Henriksen 12" JazzAmp! I'll be using it permanently attached. There is no Send/Return, so I'm going straight into the guitar input. It didn't take long at all to dial in some good sounds. I'd say it definitely warmed up the Henriksen. It's a high-quality item, for sure.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Just one other question (for now!). What's the difference between going from the pedal into the usual guitar input, as opposed to the Send/Return method? I know I'd find out quickly by trying it out, but I don't have a power unit at present.
    I'm not competent to give a technical answer, but I'd like to offer my opinion.

    I notice a different presence of the effect via fx-loop - in terms of the 'right' dosage (of warmth, grit, and almost 'valve-like' qualities). Nothing 'harsh' about it - it just helps make the amplified guitar sound fabulous. Vocals, too.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by andyb
    I would be interested to know if the pedal worked in front of a PA or powered speaker, let us know your findings please.
    I tried it in front of a Schertler Pub with a couple of instruments and was not impressed, I think because of the full range speaker. Haven't had the opportunity to test a PA yet.

    On the other hand I am really pleased with it in the effects loop of a Clarus, most recently with an (active) RMC-equipped nylon string (Kirk Sand) into a 15" open-backed Evans cabinet. I had wondered whether the combination of the two preamps would be a disadvantage, but not so. Far and away the cleanest, sweetest sound I have ever been able to get from this excellent guitar.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    Just one other question (for now!). What's the difference between going from the pedal into the usual guitar input, as opposed to the Send/Return method? I know I'd find out quickly by trying it out, but I don't have a power unit at present.
    The FX loop puts the pedals in between the pre amp and the power amp of Your amplifier.

    I have never had such an modern vehicle so I have not experience on its effect to the sounds.

    I suggest the One Spot power supply. Long and heavy cable, it survives some gigging too.

  24. #23

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    Love the design of the Brute EQ - and if it sounds even half as good as it looks, my new JazzTone 'Polytone in a Pedal' (which sounds great) is going on my little pedalboard (for purposes of exploratory play at home).

    (The inference being that the Brute EQ will get used on gigs.)
    Last edited by destinytot; 07-27-2017 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Clarity

  25. #24
    Hi guys, since this thread is still generating occasional requests, here is a update.
    The circuit is unchanged except some minor pcb changes for ease of assembly.
    Current finish - etched/countersunk black graphics on polished alloy.

    Polytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-brute-eq-top-lille-jpg

    Also i just finished a slimmer version (122x66mm).
    Jazzed up the controls layout, left out the otherwise added edge circuit and filter switch to keep it simpler.

    Polytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-img_1202-1-jpg

    I have parts to build the first/bigger version anytime and if theres is interest in the V.2 it will be ca. mid may towards early june before i can build/finish them.
    Cheers.

  26. #25

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    Is there a version with DI out that would allow for a direct out to a PA? (or can it be customized this way?)

  27. #26
    It can be customized but... i would advocate for a cabsim also. Combined preamp, DI (with phantom power protection and programmable cabsim would end up quite pricey. A analog cabsim might barely be accetaple but id have to test a bunch in this specific combination before being comfortable with others depending on it.

    With that being said, i am already looking into pricing on small quantity programmable cab sim modules, but it wont happen, if it happens, until towards the end of this year.

  28. #27

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    Where can you buy these and how much are they approx (In Uk)

    i have two MegaBrutes and the DV Mark Little Jazz, which is absolutely no where near the Polytone or my
    Orig 78 Roland Cube,

    Little Jazz needs its, but they are good amps overall, someone on forum mentioned Little Jazz sounds like Polytone, not in your wildest dreams, it does not.

    as i said Little Jazz is a good amp it is a very different sound, cleaner too. Not that is always good.

  29. #28

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    jazzmus, do you have any plans to make a complete amp out of it? maybe collaborate with someone to integrate your preamps into a modern light and powerful combo?
    I bet it could raise quite an interest, especially if you keep the Polytone aesthetic combined with modern features mindset.

  30. #29

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    So today I got my Brute EQ, the "Polytone in a Pedal." I thought it would be fun to put it side by side with my Minibrute II (90's, Pre-Sonic Circuit) and see how they compare. Since the pedal is explicitly a pre-amp, I decided to play into an AB/Splitter box, sending one signal to the pedal, one to my MiniBrute. I took the pre-amp out from the MB2 and the output from the pedal directly into my A/D box. I set up the MB and Pedal as flat and basic as I could, adjusted until the input gain lights and levels seemed comparable on the box, and recorded it. It's the same old Jimmy Raney solo I've been using recently, except for the backing track I muted the rhythm guitar to help the guitar signals stand out.

    Pedal is on the Left, MB2 preamp output on the Right. Remember it's the same playing with the signal split to each. You can switch between them all you want to compare the sound.

    I'll tell you now, I'm impressed. I think the pedal and the MB2 are hard to distinguish at this point in the signal chain. This thing is a winner.


  31. #30

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    Wow, Lawson. You are right. The two signals sound _remarkably_ similar. The Brute EQ circuit has the Polytone preamp thing really going on.

    There are a bunch of gigs where it's impractical for me to bring my amp. Having this preamp would be a big improvement for me over just going into the PA.

  32. #31

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    And if I put the Brute EQ through the DVMark micro 59 driving a 4 ohm speaker it’s down right tasty!

    You guys who worked this project out have really accomplished something!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  33. #32
    Lawson, you finally got one and you like it, perfect.

    I notice in the video intro the gain is set at noon, the “gain” control fully clockwise matches the pre to power amp output ( fixed resistor) on the 70-80’s Mb’s, i just made it variable for versatility in situations where players
    use it as “color boost?/ pre/ sweetener” into other gear/Amps etc.

    You can set it higher for more poly punch loveliness/warmth, if the unit you are plugged into starts clipping/distorting just back a little counterclockwise til you find the right balance.

  34. #33

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    Hey thank you so much for that tip. I bought it from another forum member and so didn't know much about its operation. I'll play around with it with the gain set all the way. I was thinking more of how tube amps work, you know? Set "gain" for the tone and Master Volume for the loudness.

    I LOVE this pedal. Everybody who loves the Polytone sound should get one of these. I wish I had some "flat" amp around to use with it. The DVMark micro 50 is about the flattest I have. I might take it and a DI box to the auditorium of my school and just plug into the PA to see how it sounds.

    You and the others who worked on this project deserve praise for this. You really did it.

  35. #34
    You are welcome Lawson, thank you for your kind words and sharing.

    Your perception is why im now labelling it “output”, on the original amp schematic its “ main summening”, its the final “gain” stage - it amplifies the signal output/output gain, in reality the volume control is passive and only determines how much signal is passing from the previous circuit block ( the eq) into the final stage.

    Another detail, the highpass filter is buffered and amplified ( to unity ) and works as a standalone even with the stompswitch disengaged, with the filter engaged but turned all the Way clockwise ( Sub guitars lowest frequency) you might experience a increase in fidelity nomatter cable quality/length.

    Yes, try it thru a DI in the auditorium, or infront of you tube amps, try it as shaper into your princeton etc.

  36. #35

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    Where is the red distortion knob

  37. #36

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    This is really helpful information. I need to go back and re-read the earlier threads, maybe cull out some of the user details and drop them into a single document. Others might find that helpful too. I noticed the HPF did have an effect even when the pedal was disengaged. I figured there was a reason for that. It's a useful feature.

    I was wondering about whether putting the pedal before the input, or using it through the effects return, would be best. Through the input, it's like a pre-amp pushing another pre-amp. Routing it into the effects return could with some amps bypass the amp's pre-amp and send the signal direct to the main power amp.... or have I got that confused?

  38. #37
    Before input or fx loop, again try both, the gain control again is there to aid any clipping/signal overload adjustments, just plug in and start with the gain at a lower setting, maxed its got quite a output so turn it up gradually. There is no best way rule, trust your ears.

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Where is the red distortion knob
    Gotcha covered. It doesn't matter that it doesn't do anything because I never use it.

    Gotta admit... the pedal looks classy but that red knob does mess up the aesthetic considerably.

    Polytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-img_4589-jpg

  40. #39

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    The whole Polytone-in-a-Pedal things started at least as far back as June of 2015. Some guys were looking at the innards of a Polytone and realized it wasn't a really complicated amp, but it had some particular aspects that were tricky. The idea of creating a pedal pre-amp kind of came up. I think someone had already done a lot of work on it, but set it aside, and Jorgemg1984 and jazzmus started talking seriously about the concept, getting the schematics together, figuring out components since most of the chips from the Polytone no longer were made. A lot of effort and tweaking happened. I think a lot of money got spent trying to make this work. And let's face it. On a best-case scenario, how many pedals does a guy think he'll sell? The market is pretty much this forum. And yet, the effort was undertaken. The money was spent, the time invested. Feedback happened. Revisions. Parts got ordered.

    The result is that even though it is getting harder and harder to find a Polytone, thanks to jorgemg1984 and jazzmus, and whoever passed the torch to them, we can get the lion's share of that sound with this pedal. To me that makes these guys heroes in our circles.

  41. #40

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    To set the record straight, I haven't done any work or spent any money (or earned any, btw) with this "project". As it's explained on the original thread, a former forum member shared with me his project and I, after having a local guy build it and loving the sound, decided to share it to see if others were interested (with the mentioned author of the project permission). Later, jazzmus decided to do his version, and I believe he has invested not only money but especially precious time of his life for what I assume is not a spectaular ROI (correct me if I'm wrong). For me, personally, I'm just happy when I see peope using this pedal, and being not only happy with the sound, but also surprised at how close to and old Polytone it sounds. All gratitude should be directed to the original project doer and to jazzmus!

  42. #41

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    Another satisfied user here. I never had a Polytone before, I'm a tube amp freak, but thrusting on Jorge (the "gear boss" I decide to give it a try.

    The first good thing was the relationship with jazz muss, a lovely guy. The pedal is very solid, elegant and well designed and carefully constructed inside, no humming at all with the AC supply. The controls are very effective and subtle (except the gain, a wild horse if we don't trim enough).

    I mainly use it to record with my DAW, broadening my tone choices on a more natural way, avoiding the constant plugin tweaking. I must confess that never tried to use it before the PRRI neither on the Henriksen but I'll try it on different signal path configurations where it seems to be very useful.

    Thanks jazz's, Jorge and the people who persuade me on the threads about this project of turning real a great idea.




  43. #42

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    I want to thank Rasmus (@jazzmus) for the excellent Brute EQ pedal. The sound, look, and build quality is outstanding.
    Ever since my Polytone 102D died a few years ago, I've been searching for that SOUND because nothing else came close. This is it.
    I have not yet found the ideal power amp package. Tonight, I ran it into the power amp in of my Rivera Fandango, open back tube amp.
    That doesn't have the tonal qualities of the Polytone's closed back environment so I'm still searching. I was looking at the Boss Katana but it's also open back. I am now seriously looking at a DV Mark Micro head for power (and to use for solid body rock/pop things; double duty) with one of my closed 1x12 cabinets.

    In particular, the added MId control is very useful along with the High Pass Filter. Bravo, Rasmus!

    Rasmus promptly sent the pedal after receiving payment, but the USPS decided to drop the ball when it got here. Apparently, it just sat....somewhere. I went to the post office to see what happened today, and the guy went away then came back to tell me the pedal was in Customs.....it will come soon. Imagine my surprise when 3 hours later a family member called me at work to tell me I received a package. The postman actually asked if I lived at the house. Sounds like they misplaced it and suddenly "found" it when I made the inquiry but didn't want to tell me to my face. Rasmus had excellent communication with me and gave me a tracking # which is how I found out it was actually here somewhere. He even offered to send another if this was lost. Excellent service....can't speak highly enough about Mr. Brohammer!
    Thank you!




    Polytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-brute_eq-jpg

  44. #43

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    Hello,

    A few years ago I bought from Rasmus Brohammer a Polytone pedal, in the hope to get "the classical jazz sound" I was not overly impressed using it with my sound card and my Mac, it was ok but no magic.. so it ended in my "music stuff drawer"
    For a year I use a Classic 30, cool amp that I got for very cheap, and quite pleasant sound with my Ibanez AS103, not "the classical jazz sound" I had in my head, the AS103 is a bright guitar, but quite pleasant nevertheless.

    Then a week ago (I'm sometime slow to realise things) I tried to connect the Polytone Pedal to the Classic 30's Retun... bingo.. it's magic.
    My rather bright AS103 sounds creamy, délicious throught this settings, the pedal sound + the warmth of Classic 30 as a tube poweramp is .. great is not enough...

    Luc

  45. #44

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    It’s a nice and effective pedal, very well constructed inside an indestructible case, plenty of sound control and very silent. Beside that, there’s a nice phrase inside and I got a new good friend.
    I use it direct in my DAW and my PRRI and not looking for a traditional sound, the tweaking is very eclectic.
    Thanks Ras.

    Polytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-0ccdb8a1-d6a0-4b50-b345-d1f8087bdf1f-jpg

  46. #45

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    Or perhaps one of these, since the Polytone concept was simply to make a light-weight, more portable, SS version of an old Ampeg with a Baxandall tone stack. No idea of how similar this might be from the Polytone pedal. Hmmmm, wouldn't mind a nice A/B test:
    Attached Images Attached Images Polytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-linden_eq_smaller-jpg 
    Last edited by Hammertone; 05-24-2020 at 07:09 AM.

  47. #46

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    I never heard about the Linden and making a search on Barber website it doesn’t seam to me very similar pedals but... maybe. I‘m curious anyway.

    Bass Players rejoice! The Linden E.Q. brings those golden tones of yesteryear to your modern bass rig, the Linden E.Q. captures the sweetest and most recorded bass E.Q. circuit in a simple foot operated box.” In Barber Linden EQ

  48. #47

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    Is that the Brute EQ? Can you show a picture of this and any webpage description if available? I've never heard of this (not that I'm much of a pedal guy).

    I don't know if it would add much to an amp like the Fishman Artist, but I'm always looking for ways to tweak the sound.

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    Is that the Brute EQ? Can you show a picture of this and any webpage description if available? I've never heard of this (not that I'm much of a pedal guy).

    I don't know if it would add much to an amp like the Fishman Artist, but I'm always looking for ways to tweak the sound.
    Polytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-p1000548-jpgPolytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-p1000550-jpgPolytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-p1000552-jpgPolytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-p1000553-jpg

    As far as I know there is no specific website or page, but the discussion about the creation of this pedal is there

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    Is that the Brute EQ?
    I think there were two and maybe three different Polytone preamp pedals that have been discussed on the forum over the years.

  51. #50

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    They are hand made by member jazzmus from Denmark, a very kind person.

    As far as I know, he tries to build according each one preferences. He gave me two size options but it’s possible to occur supply constraints, however the quality of construction is supreme.

    Polytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-ac1daeed-b95b-49dc-be26-6f5c45f6cbc7-jpegPolytone Pre Amp Pedal - Brute EQ-11f1e02d-de06-45b0-9294-184f69bded11-jpeg

    To obtain more details you should contact him sending a personal message. Before, if you allow me, I advice you to read the nice main thread on the born and development of the idea, as referred above by Istelie.