Looking for more string tension.

[Socraticaster]

I'm currently using D'Addario Chrome 12's on my L-7C, and while I like the string gauge, I'm looking for just a little more string tension. Is there a brand of flat wounds that anyone can recommend for increased string tension?

Thanks.

-Travis

[docbop]

DAddario's are the highest tension strings I know of and why I use them. On a solid body guitar I would tweak to increase the angle the string breaks over the bridge, but I don't know how you'd do that on a archtop.

[DanielleOM]

Longer tailpiece? The one in avatar looks short.

[Socraticaster]

It's the correct tailpiece for this model.

[citizenk74]

D'Addario makes a set of 0.013 flatwounds.I have used them with good results on my archtops. You can always substitute higher gauges for the E and B for a more TI feel. In my youth I used a set of 0.015 - 0.060 strings on my Les Paul. I managed to find a few sets of Fender Compound Wound Jazz strings that were nice and beefy. Good luck in your quest.

[DanielleOM]

It's the correct tailpiece for this model.

Didn't mean to suggest it's incorrect. Some people do play with tailpiece length for perceived tension related purposes. Looks like there is room for a longer one.

[icr]

Assuming you are not tuning to a higher pitch, the tension will be related to the mass of the stirng, which will be related to the diameter. If you measure the diameter of the strings you currently have, and go for the next larger string size (ie 0.012" to 0.013") you will need more tension in the stirng to get to concert pitch.
On my older guitars (1930s and 1940s) I don't like to have more than about 20 LB on each string. But that is just me.

[Cunamara]

It's the correct tailpiece for this model.

Regardless of that, a longer tailpiece will stiffen up the feel of the strings. Or going up to heavier strings.

[TH]

Regardless of that, a longer tailpiece will stiffen up the feel of the strings. Or going up to heavier strings.

My admittedly sketchy experience has been that a shorter tailpiece (longer string length behind the bridge) gives me a stiffer feel. Tailpieces do make a difference and where they're anchored. But that's just my opinion.

David

[Doublea A]

I'm currently using D'Addario Chrome 12's on my L-7C, and while I like the string gauge, I'm looking for just a little more string tension. Is there a brand of flat wounds that anyone can recommend for increased string tension?

Thanks.

-Travis

I recently tried a set of George Benson 12's made by Thomastic. they are expensive, but really great sounding strings. And they do feel tighter than the D'Addario Chromes.

[Greentone]

The D'Addario Chromes in the .13 gauge are a pretty tight set of strings. I used them for years. You might want to give them a try.

[skiboyny]

Maybe this will help?


The String Guy on Pyramid Strings

[Ray175]

Last week end I put a Pyramid Gold "True Vintage" set on my 1961 ES175D as an experiment. Chrome nickel flatwound on steel core
013
018
026
036
047
056
They are now played in, and after some trussrod and bridge adjustment I'm delighted. Marked increase to tension compared to the 013-052 Heavy set which they replaced. Stronger bass response called for pole-piece adjustments on neck p-u to keep a balanced sound

Maybe worth a try?

[Peter C]

As already mentioned, you won't find a higher tension set than the Chromes. Only thing is to go up to 13s (with a bottom 54/56), with the exception of any of the Thomastik Infeld sets - they're loose.

[rpjazzguitar]

I don't know how to figure out which strings have the best unit weight (highest, I guess) to increase tension.

Are those numbers published anywhere?

But, I think I know something about tailpiece design.

When you tune a string to pitch, what matters is weight, scale length and the pitch. That specifies the tension.

But, when you fret the string, you're deflecting it -- and the amount of force that requires depends on the stretchiness of the string. If you aren't clamping the strings at the nut or bridge, then the extra length of the string (between bridge and tailpiece at that end) also stretches. The greater the length of string that is stretchable, the easier if feels to deflect it. On the other hand, you have to push it further to get to a specific pitch if you're bending.

So, if you don't bend notes and you like a softer feel, you want more length between bridge and tailpiece.

If you need to bend notes to specific pitches, you might find it easier with a shorter distance between bridge and tailpiece.

Similar argument applies to the string between nut and tuning peg. It might be noticeable if you did a
Fender in-line vs a reverse Fender. Not sure which way is better. Maybe it would be better to have the extra length on the bass side, to make it more difficult to pull those notes out of tune. Not sure.

[Philco]

Re the angle of strings over the bridge. This was discussed in a very enlightening post a few years ago where someone had done tests ......with whatever you test tension with.....and there is NO difference in tension measurements with differing angles over the bridge.

I was quite amazed because I had believed this for years. It's evidently all in our heads.

I spoke with my luthier about this and he concurred. No difference. The tension of the string is the tension. The angle over the bridge makes no difference to the tension.

So I asked..."what about the Ibanez tail pieces on the GB10.....the adjustable one that allows you to change the tension?"
He laughed and said, "whatever makes you happy".

[rpjazzguitar]

I recall reading, years ago, that the breakover angle changed the sustain.

I tried it different ways on a Les Paul and couldn't hear any difference.

What it would seem like a steeper breakover angle would do, is tend to press the bridge into the top. So, the bridge and top would be coupled more strongly. I don't know if that would be audible, but I'd imagine it would change something.

The tailpiece distance, in contrast, is something that I do think I can feel. I tend to prefer the longer distance, softer feel.

[Dennis D]

...I seem to remember there is a headstock angle component as well......not sure it enters into the conversation with an L-7 R/I...I went through that with my '50's L-7........it also has skinny frets and a longer Gibson scale.....ended up with 13/'s.....


........I wouldn't be afraid of 13's at all, but I'd just keep in mind that strings with all-out tension are harder on the tops....and Chromes 13's add @ 183.3#, vs 155. for 12's......

....FYI my next set will be Pyramid Gold 13's, @ 155. ....

...Good luck, congrats and don't be surprised if a '30's L-7 starts calling you !

[Matt Cushman]

When string tension is discussed players often confuse string tension with string compliance. String compliance is effected by the string length from the tuner to the tailpiece. Any added string length from bridge to tailpiece or from nut to tuner will effect compliance of the string, not the tension of the string.

There is also the down force at the bridge. The down force at the bridge is determined by the strings breakover angle at the bridge and the amount of string tension applied. The headstock angle and the break angle at the bridge don't effect string tension.

[ptchristopher3]

When string tension is discussed players often confuse string tension with string compliance.

I suggest that "often confuse" is more like "pretty much always confuse".

[Cunamara]

Re the angle of strings over the bridge. This was discussed in a very enlightening post a few years ago where someone had done tests ......with whatever you test tension with.....and there is NO difference in tension measurements with differing angles over the bridge.

I was quite amazed because I had believed this for years. It's evidently all in our heads.

The tension is determined by the diameter, scale length and pitch. For a given guitar and string the tension will have to be the same to get the right pitch regardless of the length of string behind the nut or bridge, break angle, etc. However, feel is different- our hands are sensitive to tiny changes in pressure needed to cleanly fret the string, etc. Just a gram of pressure more or less (probably less, perhaps even a 1/2 gram) will change how the string feels. The feel of the string is somewhat adjustable with changing the break angle over the bridge. Notice even the difference between the feel of old strings and new of the same brand/gauge- same tension, different feel. Matt's comment about string compliance, which I read only after writing this reply, covers this very nicely.

[icr]

then the extra length of the string (between bridge and tailpiece at that end) also stretches.

Assumes the string slides in the saddle or the saddle rocks. These are things I work hard to AVOID in a setup or design.

[339 in june]

Threads on string tension always turn to be fun ! (when you know a little about physics)

[Socraticaster]

OP here. Can I clarify? I don't actually care about "string tension" as a physicist might use the term. What I do know is that some brands of strings feel 'looser' than other brands, and some feel 'tighter.' The physics behind why this is the case are, I'm sure, fascinating, but quite tangential to my initial inquiry. What I want to know is: what brands feel the 'tightest' (regardless of whether "tension" is a factor)? And please forgive my reliance on such subjective terms. The Vienna Circle would disapprove, I know.

I might follow Dennis D's advice and slap on a set of Pyramid 13s.

-Travis

[Peter C]

I believe the Pyramids are pure nickel. If you like Chromes, the least complicated route would probably be Chrome 13s.