View Poll Results: Which amp sounds best?

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  • Black Princeton 65 (Jensen C10R)

    32 47.06%
  • White Princeton 65 (Jensen P10R)

    15 22.06%
  • Henriksen Jazzamp 110

    21 30.88%
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Posts 1 to 47 of 47
  1. #1

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    Which of these amps do you like most?

    1. The black one is a Princeton '65 RI, standard model with Jensen C10R
    2. Blue/white is a Princeton '65 RI limited with Jensen P10R
    3. My oldie - Henriksen Jazzamp 110, without tweeter, a bit modded speaker

    Both Fender amps with the same settings - treble 1, bas 2-3, input 2. Guitar (Aria PE-180) with both volume and tone knobs full open.

    Last edited by jzjazz; 04-21-2017 at 03:54 PM. Reason: link missing!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I like the Limited PR with the alnico speaker the best.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  4. #3

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    What a cool video. Thanks for posting.

    I liked the 1st and 3rd best, but the 2nd was also good. Final verdict: all sound good!

  5. #4

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    The white Princeton the high end sounded muffled to me, didn't like it. The BF Princeton and JazzAmp were very close in sound and like both of them.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  6. #5

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    Although I love my PRRI, I voted for the Jazzamp. The white Princeton was, to me, a distant third.

  7. #6
    Order of personal preference would be 1, 3 pretty close, 2 last one. From your perspective, how do these amps feel besides the sound in comparison? I also noticed the henriksen has a buzz in the background the others don't

    What mod did you do to the Henriksen's speaker if i may ask?, as i have the same one and yours sounds great!
    Last edited by Alter; 04-21-2017 at 08:22 PM.

  8. #7

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    2
    3
    1

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
    Order of personal preference would be 1, 3 pretty close, 2 last one. From your perspective, how do these amps feel besides the sound in comparison? I also noticed the henriksen has a buzz in the background the others don't

    What mod did you do to the Henriksen's speaker if i may ask?, as i have the same one and yours sounds great!
    The henriksen mod story is here:
    Henriksen Jazzamp 110 MOD-story


    Regarding the hum - thank you for mentioning. It was always there. Moreover I had another from this era (the exact same), without the mods - it also had it. I had two technicians already trying to get rid of it ("oh, this is and easy fix" and then failing ), so the henriksen isn't too good for recording, because you can always hear that when the band gets quiter (or in a small group).


    Regarding how they fell - the henriksen is easy to play, very compressed and less dynamic than both princetons - after playing transistors for a couple years I actually have to learn to play tubes. Both princetons feel great - very dynamic and they are both much brighter than the henriksen (although this video doesn't show that too good), especially when comping.


    Apart from the much better feel, the henriksen is too quiet for me (it's the 60W version) and very often too dark in live situations - I play often in restaurants and event spaces with poor acoustics, often in duo or trio settings (with vocals and vocals + db) and I'm lacking heights almost always.


    Regarding the comparison between the two princetons - I like the white one a bit more. I feel that your judgement might come a bit from the worst take of these three of that solo - I intentionally left it and didn't record again because I though that the white princeton will win this poll easliy anyhow! So wrong! :-)


    Anyway - the white one feels meaty and mid-focused. The black one seems to have a nicer bottom and overall "hi-fi quality"/"wow-effect", BUT it has an inacceptable presense - too much of it. I also recorded a track with the tone knob at 7 on the black princeton - sounds almost identicall (so I didn't include), so to get a decent sound for the heights I need to turn down the tones and/or vol on the guitar pretty heavily, which negatively affects the mids and lows.


    But this is just me

  10. #9
    It seems that two groups are being formed - the "2" group and the "1 or 3" group, whereas the second is much larger based on the poll results (so far). Very interesting! As stated above, I'm in the "2" group, but I woud vote 2, 1, 3 - simply because I know how dark the henriksen is in bad-acoustic-rooms.

  11. #10

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    I prefer 2

  12. #11

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    Thanks for such great pro comparison!

    I would vote: 2,3,1.

    The standard Fender is very bright and hi-fi. You can hear this especially on track without background record. The white Fender has less trebles so sound is more rounded at top and warmer in general - without loosing punch from tube. The third to me is the best for low volume but I played henriksen and it colours sound a bit (but high) and indeed for bands and lower volumes may be too dark (not mentioning already mentioned hum :P).

    So from this comparison the white seems to be the most versatile choice. Keep the white!

  13. #12
    Have you tried moving the Henriksen a few feet away from the guitar for recording? Mine gets that buzz too, and with some guitars (or pickups i would say) its actually unusable if you are say 4-5 feet away, but if you move away the buzz disappears. (This happens more when the electricity/grounding etc is less than optimal). I 've done recordings with it being in another room and there was no buzz.. I 've also tried having the guitar go into a DI and then into the amp, which seemed to help.

    About the white princeton i figured the overall sound was a take thing. And it is always worth noticing how differently sound works in a solo and in a band context. It is in the second where the mid heavy/focused types of guitar sounds seem to excel. Also the sound that impresses you and the sound that stays with you are sometimes different (Taylor/Martin? ). But as good as the Henriksen sounds (and i consider it a great tube amp alternative), competing with tubes is a difficult thing to do, if you take into account dynamics, and the overall ''presence'' of the amp in a live setting. I love the Princetons, i need to get one someday ..

  14. #13

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    They sound about the same to me. I need my hearing checked.
    Great Deals with Great Folks: max52 (Guild-Benedetto Artist Award); prickards (Ribbecke GC Halfling); Cincy2 (Comins Concert)

  15. #14

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    Nice job on the comparison. I'm also in the 2, 1, 3 camp. #1 seems a bit too "tinny" and #3 a bit too dark. #1 might come closer to #2 if the guitar's tone control were turned down a bit. But I find all the tones pleasant.
    The hum in #3 isn't that noticeable with the backing track, but when I'm playing just knowing the hum is there drives me nuts, even though I'm the only person in the room who notices it.
    If I were considering these amps for myself I'd use different settings, turning the volume and tone knobs on the guitar down as much as half, then turning up the volume knob on the amp to compensate. That would complicate making a video like this, but it's the setting I typically start with on the bandstand and changes everything.
    I'd also want to hear how the amps and speakers respond to fairly high volume levels. Do they give me a sense of having some muscle behind me or do they start farting out too soon?
    Last edited by KirkP; 04-22-2017 at 11:15 AM.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
    They sound about the same to me. I need my hearing checked.
    Me too. I think I heard the white princeton as darker on the top end, but I may have been influenced by reading some comments.

    At this point in my life, I'm categorizing tones as "I like it" or "I dont." No time for obsessing on minutiae. All three of these sound great to me.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
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    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  17. #16

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    I definitely hear a difference, its is even more obvious when I chromecast the video on the TV and sound system.
    I think I finally prefer the 2nd one (P10R equipped), notes are rounder and you can always add a bit more treble on the amp should you need it. It is also a bit more efficient than the C10R in the regular PRRI by not much but still.
    For my taste it is 2,1 then 3
    ...every note has an origin and a destination...
    - Tal Farlow

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    If I were considering these amps for myself I'd use different settings, turning the volume and tone knobs on the guitar down as much as half, then turning up the volume knob on the amp to compensate. That would complicate making a video like this, but it's the setting I typically start with on the bandstand and changes everything.
    I'd also want to hear how the amps and speakers respond to fairly high volume levels. Do they give me a sense of having some muscle behind me or do they start farting out too soon?
    That's very good advice. I usually don't use my guitars turned down, I hardly use the tone knob - I feel that the guitar looses its character. I sometimes do for improvising with the band if the band sound isn't too dark (I like to turn down the tones for high single note lines, but it definitely has a bad effect on low frequencies).

    About the playing loud thing - I used the white princeton today with a small jazz band (acoustic guitar, double bass, my guitar and vocals) on a outside venue and I was lacking volume. I mean it was OK, but I could use more. But it sounded great - even a bit too bright and I turned down the tones for single line stuff.

    So eventually I will probably swap the speaker anyway - question for which speaker if I want to stay close to the P10R from the white one? I've read some threads already, so the candidates are:

    1. Eminence Lil Bud
    2. Weber 10F150T
    3. Tone tubby

    No, I won't start a new poll :-)

  19. #18

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    Try a Weber 10F150 (NOT the T version, which has a thin cone and is very bright....good for blues and rock, not so much for jazz). The regular cone version is very warm and IMO, will be an upgrade from the cheap, Italian made Jensens.
    _____________________________________________
    "When the chord changes, you should change" Joe Pass

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzjazz View Post
    Which of these amps do you like most?

    1. The black one is a Princeton '65 RI, standard model with Jensen C10R
    2. Blue/white is a Princeton '65 RI limited with Jensen P10R
    3. My oldie - Henriksen Jazzamp 110, without tweeter, a bit modded speaker

    Both Fender amps with the same settings - treble 1, bas 2-3, input 2. Guitar (Aria PE-180) with both volume and tone knobs full open.


    I didn't have a preference among the amps, but I thought your playing sounded terrific.

  21. #20

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    This is a really cool video. I like you you put it together. I like the sound of all of the amps - all slightly different but all fundamentally good sounds. My favorite is the Henriksen. I have stopped using other amps for the most part since getting on board with Henriksen (most lately with the Bud) but if some of these Fender amps were small and portable like that is then I would be interested in checking those out and yours both sound good.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  22. #21

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    I think all three sound just great.
    The only thing I don't like about Princetons is their tonestack is limited for jazz players.

    Regarding speaker swap possibilities, the Celestion Gold is also a great option.

  23. #22

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    While I voted for #1, all three sounded great. #1 seemed to have a bit more high end and I think maybe worked better with the backing track.

    When soloed, the Jazzamp had some audible hum.

    The main thing is, I like to hear the woody tone of a jazz guitar, and it is there in all three versions.

    Good problem to have, which of three great sounds to choose from.

  24. #23

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    Have you tried turning Princetons up to 5 and guitar volume down, I find they do not wake until they are turned up.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    “When you’re creating your own ...., man, even the sky ain’t the limit.”
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  25. #24

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    I prefer the first, but I have to agree that the differences are very subtle. They all sound great. Nice playing, by the way!

  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by gggomez View Post
    Have you tried turning Princetons up to 5 and guitar volume down, I find they do not wake until they are turned up.
    They actually have been recorded at about 4,5-5, pretty loud home volume But now that you mentioned it I turned it up to 7 and guitar volume down and it sounds sweet. But I guess it's more of the guitar which sounds much darker with the volume knob down.

  27. #26

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    Sorry I did not say thanks for post and good playing. I also liked number 1 best sounded more alive to me then number 3. Amazing how close the Henriksens get. Would love to hear a Princeton side by side with Quilter Aviator 8".


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    “When you’re creating your own ...., man, even the sky ain’t the limit.”
    Miles Davis

  28. #27
    Kept the white one since I'm changing the speaker eventually anyway. And just ordered a Lil Bud from Eminence - will let you know how it sounds when I get it :-)

    PS. Are fender tilt legs 14" the proper size for a princeton? They don't list princetons amps in its specs but there are no shorter available so it's probably a matter of where to place them on the amp?

  29. #28
    Sorry for two post in a row, but I just installed my new Eminence Lil Bud and LOVE it! Thanks to this forum I made the right choice - the speaker seems to be something in between those two Jensens - nice high end but not as thin an shrilly as the C10R and but has a lot of that over hi-fi sound which the P10R didn't. And it stays clean longer. I'm SO happy with it, can't recommend a speaker replacement in princetons enough!

  30. #29

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    I like all three amplifiers. I have a lot more mileage plugging into Fender Princetons. I agree with the post that you have to turn them up. Get that volume knob up and back off on your guitar's volume.

  31. #30

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    I would go 3, 2, 1. The Black princeton has the classic midrange cut which is pretty sounding but I hear that thing where the body is missing that always bugs me with BF/SF fenders. It might be the right amp for a solo gig, but alternatively I'd just scoop the mids on the henricksen
    Last edited by PB+J; 04-28-2017 at 04:56 PM.

  32. #31

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    One more thing: your Aria Pro II PE-180 sounds great. It's just a superb, all-around jazz guitar that you don't have to be afraid to take to a gig. (even though Matsumoku guitars are getting kind of rare, these days)

  33. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Greentone View Post
    One more thing: your Aria Pro II PE-180 sounds great. It's just a superb, all-around jazz guitar that you don't have to be afraid to take to a gig. (even though Matsumoku guitars are getting kind of rare, these days)
    I love it. That is the first guitar I treat as for life

  34. #33

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    For me 3,2,1 (very close between 3 and 2) with 1 being clearly last.

    The blacc Princeton had to much high end for my taste.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  35. #34

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    I'd have preferred a "blind" comparison--I just can't imagine a snow-white amp sounding better than a stodgy old black Princeton! Also knowing which one is tube and which one is solid state biases me. I wish I could be more objective even knowing the amps, but I doubt my ability to do that. I am not criticizing the OP"s video. It's a service he's done for us, and he has also delighted us all, including me, with his wonderful playing. he has also possibly demonstrated that the Aria Pro II PE180 can make any amp sound just wonderful!

    For me, that black PRRI with that PE180 is just impossible to beat. My bias, to be sure! I also think the OP could make pretty much any amp and guitar sound great.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  36. #35

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    I have trouble with these sorts of videos, too.

    I've listened to "speaker shootout" videos and the louder (more sensitive) speakers tend to sound better to me. Of course, in real life, you'd turn up the amp for quieter speakers.
    Build bridges, not walls.

  37. #36

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    The white Princeton had a real nice soft quality to the sound, but still clear and distinct. The other two had a bit of harshness in comparison. The white Princeton was also a touch quieter, which will always skew a listening test. I enjoyed listening to the video. None of them sounded bad.

  38. #37

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    These types of comparison videos are just for fun, right? You can tweak the knobs and it's literally night and day difference. BTW, I liked Henriksen the best in this video. A little bit too dark but sits in the mix better than others IMHO.

  39. #38

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    I liked number 1 least, when listening with better headphones. But, I also suspect that a slight reduction in treble might make it sound as good as the others.

  40. #39

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    I laugh at your puny jazz guitar amp comparison.

    Earlier today, a friend and I did this jazz guitar amp comparison, to hear the differences between three similarly-configured, similarly sized 2x7591 1x12" Ampeg combos: G-12 (22 watts), GS-12R (18 watts) and older G-12 (22 watts), equipped w/old JBLs (OK, the Rocket II has an old Altec 417). Turns out there weren't many - they all sound kind of the same. They all weigh kind of the same. And they all smell the same...How about that.
    Attached Images Attached Images Jazz guitar amp comparison!-ampeg-g12-rocketii-g12_5197-jpg 
    Last edited by Hammertone; 03-23-2019 at 04:48 AM.
    "Somebody get me out of this chair." - BOB WILLS
    Hammertone is a registered Hofnerologist.

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone View Post
    I laugh at your puny jazz guitar amp comparison.

    Earlier today, a friend and I did this jazz guitar amp comparison, to hear the differences between three similarly-configured, similarly sized 2x7591 1x12" Ampeg combos: G-12 (22 watts), GS-12R (18 watts) and older G-12 (22 watts), equipped w/old JBLs (OK, the Rocket II has an old Altec 417). Turns out there weren't many - they all sound kind of the same. They all weigh kind of the same. They all smell the same...How about that.
    It's funny that you mention the odor. My old Reverberocket R12RB has had a distinctive smell all its life.

  42. #41

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    Recently I've tweaked a lot my PRRI - changed Jensen to 12" Celestion Gold and played with different sort of tubes. The preamp tube change makes so huge difference that this comparison would be totally different even betwen Princetones when we will switch the tubes. The Princeton is very good platform to mod and imho you can tweak it for every sound you would like to get

  43. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by asedas View Post
    Recently I've tweaked a lot my PRRI - changed Jensen to 12" Celestion Gold and played with different sort of tubes. The preamp tube change makes so huge difference that this comparison would be totally different even betwen Princetones when we will switch the tubes. The Princeton is very good platform to mod and imho you can tweak it for every sound you would like to get
    Completely true! My Deluxe Reverb RI sounds twice as good since I preplaced the preamp tube with a vintage one!

  44. #43

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    What do you use now? I tried Sovtek 12ax7LPS (new, very good from the new tubes - good ratio balance/punch), then tried two diferent RFT (didn't like them) and tried also old Philips ECC83 (which one I use now - very ballanced, less tube "punch").

  45. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by asedas View Post
    What do you use now? I tried Sovtek 12ax7LPS (new, very good from the new tubes - good ratio balance/punch), then tried two diferent RFT (didn't like them) and tried also old Philips ECC83 (which one I use now - very ballanced, less tube "punch").
    Honestly i don’t know I tested a couple and ended up with one. I had a vintage Phillips and this was by far the best sound wise but it was frequently fishing something from the air and producing some kind of low volume constant feedback so I had to change it the philips was brighter and more hi-fi (more heights), the one I have is darker but is much quieter than the factory tube (I’m turning my deluxe up to 7-8 on gigs), but it stays clean.

  46. #45

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    I recently picked up the PRRI Limited Edition with the 12" CR speaker. I currently have a TAD 7025 in V1 and JJ 6V6s power tubes, with the bias current raised a bit to about 25 mA. The amp sounds fabulous to my ear. Tons of clean, with the really rounded sweet mids that I personally just love. I plan to play around with other tubes, but this combination has been delightful to play. I usually put the amp volume on 8 or 9, BT at 7 or 8, and control the levels from the guitar.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  47. #46

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    They all sound nice. But from best to "worst," 3, 1, 2.

    You told us the Fender settings, but did I miss the Hen settings? And what is "a bit modded" speaker?
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  48. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound View Post
    They all sound nice. But from best to "worst," 3, 1, 2.

    You told us the Fender settings, but did I miss the Hen settings? And what is "a bit modded" speaker?
    Sorry I don't remember the henriksen settings, but here's the story behind the mod:
    Henriksen Jazzamp 110 MOD-story