What is it about Polytone amps?

[No_Jazz_Guitarist]

I found this ‘Love letter’ to Polytone on the Ultimate Guitar forum.
It’s so beautiful I decided to re post it on here:

Written by Rich Tone on Mar 19, 2009, 3:35 PM

This is a very rare vintage amp that no one cares about.

Few people understand it's potential. As an acoustic guitar player who made the transition to electric and rock bands after many years of pure acoustic tone, I found the Polytone to be a cut above most of the other guitar amps out there.

Actually, I like it so much, that I'm one of those rare people who thinks tube amps are crap. Tubes burn out, tubes distort easily, tubes are expensive, tubes make my guitar sound broken and cheap. The Polytone 103 lets me control my sound. I can start with a perfect clear sound, use that as my base, and bring in different effects as needed. I think it would be next to impossible to find a brand new solid state amp in a guitar store of today that can compare to this Vintage Beauty.

I play a Rickenbacker 360, a beautiful guitar that allows me to control my tone very precisely. The fifth knob on the Ric lets me cut in some hollow body feedback into my over all sound, and the red knob on the Polytone 103 lets me cut in a little "white noise" into the sound as well. The combination is deadly. And this amp, is very loud. Actually I've been looking for a second Polytone amp to take advantage of the 360 stereo output. Very hard to find.

I think it's misleading to say its a jazz amp. I don't play Jazz. I don't play Blues Rock. I don't think I even play Rock.

I strive for Crystal guitar sound. Shimmering lights, I want to hear the metal in my strings vibrating. Brittle, with deep CLEAR bass notes,

I don't play power chords.

I like arpeggios, broken chords, chords with that one extra note that can accompany a vocal line melodically...

So if you are someone who wants to hear the complexity and friction between your notes, then this is the amp for you.

[Greentone]

The Polytone is a good amp for a wide variety of music...and for a wide variety of musical instruments--not just guitars.

[No_Jazz_Guitarist]

Here it is, my current set up:



I bought a, semi open back, cab and put on it some kind of oil / wax mix.
I put a Jensen Special Design 10", 35W, 8 ohm ceramic speaker in it.




First I tried it with the Vox MV50 mini amp.
With its 25W of power at 8 ohm it sounded dead, lifeless, unengaging.

Then i tried it with the Polytone Mini-Brute I.
It came alive. It now sounds wonderful!

Now, the Polytone is rated at 90W, but that is with a 3 or 4 ohm speaker.
The speaker in the Polytone is a Celestion G12-100, 8 ohms and it sounds nice and full. It has a hard hitting deep bass tone.

With the Jensen equipped cab the sound is very different.
The sound is warm, but more precise.

Now , let us consider this:

at 3 ohms the power is 90W

at 6 ohms it would be 45W

with the 8 ohms speaker it would be somewhere around 22W.
Is this really enough for powering the 35W, 8 ohms speaker?

Anyway,

I like it!

[Hammertone]

Today's fun:
My Polytone Baby Brute powering a compact 2x10", open-back, 4-ohm cab. The whole thing is 36" high x 12" deep x 13.5" wide. I've been moving some amps around and this occured to me as a highly gig-worthy arrangement. Hooray for Polytone!

[Herbie]

Here it is, my current set up:



I bought a, semi open back, cab and put on it some kind of oil / wax mix.
I put a Jensen Special Design 10", 35W, 8 ohm ceramic speaker in it.




First I tried it with the Vox MV50 mini amp.
With its 25W of power at 8 ohm it sounded dead, lifeless, unengaging.

Then i tried it with the Polytone Mini-Brute I.
It came alive. It now sounds wonderful!

Now, the Polytone is rated at 90W, but that is with a 3 or 4 ohm speaker.
The speaker in the Polytone is a Celestion G12-100, 8 ohms and it sounds nice and full. It has a hard hitting deep bass tone.

With the Jensen equipped cab the sound is very different.
The sound is warm, but more precise.

Now , let us consider this:

at 3 ohms the power is 90W

at 6 ohms it would be 45W

with the 8 ohms speaker it would be somewhere around 22W.
Is this really enough for powering the 35W, 8 ohms speaker?

Anyway,

I like it!

Congrats for finding THE sound with Polytone.

The wattage of the speaker is the uppest limit of its design. You can play 100W speaker with 1W amp and everything is ok. But if You play 1W speaker with 100W amp with full volume, the speaker will not stand it. It burns, breaks or something.

So according to Your calculations You are on the safe side. Just play and enjoy!

[No_Jazz_Guitarist]

Hi!

Thank you for the nice comments!

I made a change, and it is great!



I must say I prefer the sound of a 12".

Of course, with this set up, you don't get that boxy sound of the Polytone on it's own.
But you still get the warm and wonderful sound quality.

One other thing concerning the SQ.
Compared to the Peavey Bandit 112 "red stripe" + Bugera 12" cab set up, I have to turn the reverb higher to get the effect that I want.

And, of course, with the Peavey I get sound from both speakers.

[No_Jazz_Guitarist]

I have to add that I tried the Polytone with the closed back Bugera cab (with a 80W Turbosound 12" speaker).

The sound became too boxed in and dull for my liking.

With the Vox cab, the sound is more clear and airy (with its 70W Celestion G12 V Type speaker.)

I love that sound

My feeling is that the Bugera cab fits best with the Peavey Bandit.

[Greentone]

My son and I played a gig last night to a packed room that Springsteen played years back. It's a big, university gym. We played a Strat (me) and a Tele (son). We used a straight up Polytone setup: Polytone MiniBrute II (me), Polytone MiniBrute III with reverb pedal (son), and a Polytone MiniBrute PA. Derned if everything didn't sound crisp, clear, and room filling. Reports from musicians in the room were uniformly praiseworthy.

I often use much more modern equipment. However, the old Polytone gear will get the job done...every time.

[tomcad]

The Polytone power amps were designed to be used with low impedance speakers: 1. So that they could extract maximum power from a low voltage power supply 2. To easily permit a drop in damping factor by inserting a small resistance in series with the speaker voice coil, enabling a more tube-like sound. This likely enhanced the bass response slightly in the sealed cabinet, too.

[Map0Spread]

I recently played my Es-335 is my Polytone Mini-Brute, which I had never done. Man, this is pure insanity, the tone is ridiculously good! Fat, lively, agressive if you want... A very nice discovery.

[maxsmith]

I’ve had this one for a long time - a Mini-Brute IV, I think. It’s in storage while I’m on the road. Beside using it for a great jazz guitar tone, I’ve played a lot of bass gigs through it and it even sounds good with keys plugged in. Plenty loud, relatively compact (though my Henriksen ER110 is even smaller and louder).

I have a pdf of the manual and noticed the company address was in North Hollywood, a few blocks from where I lived for 3 years, probably not there when I was - like Nudie’s Western Wear in the same neighborhood, gone.

[Jazz_175]

I've just come back from a little journey to a nearby town where I bought a second-hand Mini-Brute I for 350 euros. What do you think about the price?
Here are the pictures.

[medblues]

Not a bad price for mint looking amp.

[nbw]

I had the itch to try a polytone, my DV Mark micro jazz was not doing it. I found a pretty beat up example outside of Chicago for $175.



I started working on it. First thing was a new overdrive pot, which turned out to be trivial. Next I built a new cabinet, I thought an amp like this needed a more boutique look.



I added an iec removable ac cord with a fused receptacle and even a pedal power supply. Now it looks like an amp my buddy Joel Shapira can gig with.

[Guy_]

Hey everyone! I’m hoping someone will be able to advise me on the worth of my Minibrute I in red tolex - I’m just not using it much any more so probably gonna move it along! Cosmetically it’s not bad but not showroom, and functionally it’s super and sounds like it should!

[frabarmus]

Glad I found this thread!

Here is my beloved Polytone Megabrute that I bought 20, or so, years ago, still love it loads! I no longer gig with it for fear that something might happen to it (I gig with my DV Mark Little Jazz instead, that I also like very much).

Polytone no longer exists, I gather. So what am I going to do if my Megabrute dies? Fingers crossed!

An anecdote: years ago, Garrison Fewell played a gig (featuring John Tchicai) in my home town, I was there at sound check and Garrison didn't like the amp at the Club, so I offered to lend him my Megabrute, I went back home, put the amp in a bag and took it back to the Club by bicycle (that's how light the amp is!). Needless to say: Garrison was very pleased with it!




(On stage with Garrison Fewell's guitar)


John Tchicai, Paolino Dalla Porta and Garrison Fewell.

[rpjazzguitar]

The few times I've played a Polytone I couldn't understand the fuss.

I thought "sterile and boxy". But, to be fair, I didn't understand the control layout.

I also can't think of a guitarist whose tone I loved who used a Polytone.

I'm a Joe Pass fan, but not especially for his tone.

I am currently a very happy user of the DV Mark Little Jazz.

[frabarmus]

The few times I've played a Polytone I couldn't understand the fuss.

I thought "sterile and boxy". But, to be fair, I didn't understand the control layout.

I also can't think of a guitarist whose tone I loved who used a Polytone.

I'm a Joe Pass fan, but not especially for his tone.

I am currently a very happy user of the DV Mark Little Jazz.

I've heard Polytone amps sound "sterile and boxy", but then, I saw that the player(s) had the tone knob on the guitar all the way down to 0 and the sound was muddy and seemed to come "from under water".

I need to put in the time to set control knobs (both on amp and on guitar) until I find my sound. I usually set my Polytone to sound slightly brighter than typical jazz guitar, and my two archtops have a P90 type neck- pickup (a Gibson P94 and a Shadow Attila Zoller) and I get a nice warm/bright tone à la Grant Green.

Didn't Jim Hall also use Polytone at some point? George Benson did and wanted his signature Fender amp to sound like one.

By the way, I've got a DV Mark Little Jazz, too, and love it! I've tried them both, side by side and got them to sound pritty much identical.

At some point I've had an Ibanez WT80 amp but no matter how much I tweaked and turned knobs I just could not find a decent sound (for me).

The best Jazz guitar sound I've ever had was with tube amps (I must admit!), one was a Twin Reverb (never owned one but had the opportunity to play them) and the other was a Yamaha T100C (that I've recently sold) ...but those are extremely heavy to carry around, for me at least.

[supersoul]

my two archtops have a P90 type neck- pickup (a Gibson P94 and a Shadow Attila Zoller) and I get a nice warm/bright tone à la Grant Green.

I didn't know that the Shadow Atilla Zoller was based on the P90. I like mine a lot. It's a humbucker, but is unusually clear sounding.

[Chris236]

I’m a long time Polytone user but never felt the tone was anything but passable. Almost any other amp will be an improvement on tone. Polytones are relatively small, light and loud though without that abhorrent hifi thing. Also tough as nails and (save for the reverb) reliable. I acquired a Mambo a few months ago and find it an improvement in every way. Polytones are so inexpensive on the 2nd hand market now it’s hard to justify anything else if you’re looking for a professional quality/road worthy amp.

[frabarmus]

I didn't know that the Shadow Atilla Zoller was based on the P90. I like mine a lot. It's a humbucker, but is unusually clear sounding.

Hang on... I'm not sure it is based on the P90 but my luthier told me it's single coil! Anyway, I really like the super clean, clear and punchy, yet warm, sound. Mine is the AZ 49 (there's also the AZ48, which is the floating version). Attila Zoller, himself, designed them, I think... I remember reading an interview where he talked about it, though I don't remember the exact specs... Maybe some forum-member knows them?

[frabarmus]

I acquired a Mambo a few months ago and find it an improvement in every way.

I'm curious about the Mambo amps, I wasn't aware of them, will look them up.

[supersoul]

Hang on... I'm not sure it is based on the P90 but my luthier told me it's single coil! Anyway, I really like the super clean, clear and punchy, yet warm, sound. Mine is the AZ 49 (there's also the AZ48, which is the floating version). Attila Zoller, himself, designed them, I think... I remember reading an interview where he talked about it, though I don't remember the exact specs... Maybe some forum-member knows them?

It's definitely a humbucker. I installed one a couple weeks ago and could see the two coils from underneath. Mine's the floater, the AZ48.

[coyote-1]

I’m a long time Polytone user but never felt the tone was anything but passable. Almost any other amp will be an improvement on tone. Polytones are relatively small, light and loud though without that abhorrent hifi thing. Also tough as nails and (save for the reverb) reliable. I acquired a Mambo a few months ago and find it an improvement in every way. Polytones are so inexpensive on the 2nd hand market now it’s hard to justify anything else if you’re looking for a professional quality/road worthy amp.

They are getting inexpensive because they are nearing end of service. I would not want to be on the road with an amp that is more likely by the day to break down and be unrepairable. I do like their sound, but the reality is that almost any good amp can help you make a good jazz tone.

A big chunk of that is about the speaker. Those famous Polytones were pushing good power into a 15” speaker, as opposed to so many ‘jazz’ amps utilizing 8” or even 6” speakers. I think a 12” speaker is optimal for clean tone on a guitar combo amp. I love running combo amps thru not only their own speaker, but an additional 2x12” closed cabinet. Even at lower volumes, the fullness is evident.

But of course that’s a lot of gear to haul. It’s just not expedient, and often not at all practical, to do that. So the compromise is a small combo…. and the small but powerful Polytone combo with the big speaker was one of the best of these.

[Chris236]

They are getting inexpensive because they are nearing end of service. I would not want to be on the road with an amp that is more likely by the day to break down and be unrepairable. I do like their sound, but the reality is that almost any good amp can help you make a good jazz tone.

A big chunk of that is about the speaker. Those famous Polytones were pushing good power into a 15” speaker, as opposed to so many ‘jazz’ amps utilizing 8” or even 6” speakers. I think a 12” speaker is optimal for clean tone on a guitar combo amp. I love running combo amps thru not only their own speaker, but an additional 2x12” closed cabinet. Even at lower volumes, the fullness is evident.

But of course that’s a lot of gear to haul. It’s just not expedient, and often not at all practical, to do that. So the compromise is a small combo…. and the small but powerful Polytone combo with the big speaker was one of the best of these.

Nope. I have several from the 80’s and 90’s that are as reliable as day one… there is no ‘end of service’ date nor do they become ‘unrepairable’ and I’ve used them with confidence for decades….they are tough as nails.

My favorite Poly is easily the 8” Megabrute with the I/II a close second if I need a little more power - although I’ve used the Mega plenty of times in large rooms and it is usually fine ??

Great amps, small, loud, reliable, predictable …..just not particularly special tone-wise like a great tube amp (or SS for that matter) can be.