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  1. #1

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    Henry J. has closed the Crimson custom shop till September. No archtops will be made. Apparently he is not happy not getting "his price" on them. He did this in 2010 for a year and then jacked up the prices big time.
    Starve the people than charge them twice the price for a hamburger.
    Got this info from Dave's. They are also no longer Gibson dealers and said TMZ is close to pulling the plug also.
    They told me Henry wants no more independent Gibson dealers. Only MF, AMS, Zz, GC. No brick and mortar dealers.

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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Henry J. has closed the Crimson custom shop till September. No archtops will be made. Apparently he is not happy not getting "his price" on them. He did this in 2010 for a year and then jacked up the prices big time.
    Starve the people than charge them twice the price for a hamburger.
    Got this info from Dave's. They are also no longer Gibson dealers and said TMZ is close to pulling the plug also.
    They told me Henry wants no more independent Gibson dealers. Only MF, AMS, Zz, GC. No brick and mortar dealers.
    that last part kinda runs counter to the concept of "custom" shop doesn't it?

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Henry J. has closed the Crimson custom shop till September. No archtops will be made. Apparently he is not happy not getting "his price" on them. He did this in 2010 for a year and then jacked up the prices big time.
    Starve the people than charge them twice the price for a hamburger.
    Got this info from Dave's. They are also no longer Gibson dealers and said TMZ is close to pulling the plug also.
    They told me Henry wants no more independent Gibson dealers. Only MF, AMS, Zz, GC. No brick and mortar dealers.
    Does this mean that Gibson won't be making any archtops at all, or that they're stopping manufacture of the subset of their archtops that was made in the Crimson Custom Shop (I haven't followed the ins and outs of what gets made in what parts of Gibsonlandia)?

    John
    Last edited by John A.; 03-31-2017 at 04:21 PM.

  5. #4

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    My Dad used to say "that's the kinda Guy who would pee in his own shoe and wear'm."

  6. #5

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    I think Henry J really only wants to make Les Pauls under the Gibson name and of those really only wants to make "premium" products, not instruments for the hoi polloi. Those're what Epiphone is for.

    The demographic of the world don't bode well. Seems like fewer and fewer people listen to live music, which means fewer gigs and less reason for gigging musicians to buy more instruments. And it seems like pop music right at the moment does not depend on the guitar as it once did- now it's computers and vocalists instead of a band and vocalists. Live performing even on major tours is more like fancy karaoke than live music (except karaoke doesn't usually involve lip syncing).

  7. #6

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    Archtops take more labor and need more scarce woods than other types of guitars. And while the whole guitar market may shrink with the demographic changes, archtops were never big sellers to begin with. Add a plethora of luthiers who have all studied the Bob Benedetto book, and the market for high end archtops may be something a good businessman would/should walk away from.

    That said, I am sure that Gibson Memphis will still be putting out some iconic archtops for quite a few years to come. Henry J. has a business to run. It is an iconic brand, and I for one wish him, and all those employed by Gibson the very best.

  8. #7

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    No high end Gibson archtops until September? Are we on punishment, or does Henry think he's a Saudi oil minister? He's certainly following the latter' game plan. The only problem is that there are a number of other high end archtop builders who will gladly fill the void...and charge considerably less.

    If only Joe Bonamassa would start playing an L5! That would make Henry do a jig!

  9. #8

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    [QUOTE=Donnie;757375]My Dad used to say "that's the kinda Guy who would pee in his own shoe and wear'm."[/QUOTE

    What a great and timely quote!

    Perhaps Henry J is preparing to run for office?

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Does this mean that Gibson won't be making any archtops at all, or that they're stopping manufacture of the subset of their archtops that was made in the Crimson Custom Shop (I haven't followed the ins and outs of what gets made in what parts of Gibsonlandia)?

    John
    No Crimson custom shop archtops. Just 59' VOS 175's from Memphis will be made. In September Henry will make a decision on reopening the Crimson custom shop in Nashville.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donnie
    My Dad used to say "that's the kinda Guy who would pee in his own shoe and wear'm."

    works if you're walking on hot coals!...hah

    cheers

  12. #11

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    Wouldn't you call GC a big-time brick and mortar store ?

    I sure don't agree with cancelling Dave's, and not sure about closing Crimson Custom, but keep in mind Dave's was ' closed to Gibson ' a few years ago and was later re-instated. Who's to say the Crimson Shop won't come back with a new name or ???


    But to Henry's credit - -why make any more of something if you can't sell the ones still on the shelf ? And according to this info, production is only stopped 'til September.

    Bottom line, more than likely, Henry barely - if ever, 'got his price' for the new ones. And you have to wonder if Dave's or the other dealers did either.

    So, maybe they'll look at pricing - or maybe just let demand build back up again.

  13. #12
    Seriously Marc ? You wish Henry J. all the best ? He just laid off his top shelf employees at Nashville. I am sure they all have families to support.
    Yes he turned Gibson around in the 1980's but that was 30 years ago.
    I know you must know Kevin Jarvis owner of Gelb Music ? You guys both live in the same coastal town.
    Ask him to tell you some Henry J. stories. He will enlighten you. Kevin was a Gibson dealer from 1970-2014.
    Henry stepped on him like a roach.

  14. #13

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    It would certainly be terrible if anyone was laid off as a result of this decision at Gibson.

    Any successful business has its core competency to retain and hopefully Gibson used prudent judgement with this action.

    I don't know much about Henry J's positive / negative affect on the dealer network - but any diminished production on high end Archtop's is certainly sad news and speaks volumes to market conditions .

  15. #14
    Dennis and Marc you both make good and valid points. I know too many Music store owners personally and have just heard too many really bad things about HJ right from the horse's mouth. Not to mention I have felt the sting of HJ's business tactics many a time over the years.

  16. #15

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    Gosh, I hope Gibson doesn't stop making archtops! Maybe they need to take some time to reassess the niche market for high end arch tops, figure out what the demand is and set prices accordingly. They've had some misses in the last few years; the L5 Premiers, L5 double cutaways and solid formed archtops really languished on the market. But the L5CES and Wes models moved. They also have to compete with all the slightly used and well-cared-for recent vintage Custom shop archtops on the used market. Bottom line for me, as a life-long Gibson fan boy, is I'd be really bummed if the Custom Crimson division doesn't make a comeback in some form.

  17. #16
    Hey I am a huge "Gibson Fan Boy". I have 10 of them. 9 from the Crimson Custom Shop and I wanted 1 more.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Hey I am a huge "Gibson Fan Boy". I have 10 of them. 9 from the Crimson Custom Shop and I wanted 1 more.
    Vinny, that qualifies you as a much hoooger Gibson fan boy than me (only two CC shop + a 175). But I want at least 4 more! Don't tell my wife or she'll divorce me and take half my 401k. BTW how are you doing these days? Are you all healed up?

  19. #18
    Thanks for asking Ren. My hand still hurts but playing guitar again just a tad slower. I'm a happy boy.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Thanks for asking Ren. My hand still hurts but playing guitar again just a tad slower. I'm a happy boy.
    That's great to hear. Hopefully you will continue to improve. I recommend red wine and olive oil as dietary supplements.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler

    Are we on punishment, or does Henry think he's a Saudi oil minister? He's certainly following the latter' game plan. The only problem is that there are a number of other high end archtop builders who will gladly fill the void...and charge considerably less.
    1. If you were actually looking for a new Gibson archtop, in the last several years, you did not have to look too far. If you didn't want to pay the price they were asking, then that was another matter.
    2. But Henry a 'Saudi oil minister' - seriously ? Just because he's addressing a business problem ? I didn't see him getting all the other builders together and fixing prices.
    3. But ok if you think there's someone building Gibson level archtops for 'considerably less', shop their prices, and the options they offer, if any, and then see what you get. Or probably won't get.

    I'm not sure how serious a buyer you are or were, but if you didn't jump on a ' used ' ( one or two year old ) Crimson Custom archtop in the last several years, MHO you missed out. But if you didn't want one anyway, then this is just conversation.
    And if you are going to hate Henry's guts anyway, no matter what his company builds, or charges for it, then again that's just conversation too.

    MHO

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis D
    1. If you were actually looking for a new Gibson archtop, in the last several years, you did not have to look too far. If you didn't want to pay the price they were asking, then that was another matter.
    2. But Henry a 'Saudi oil minister' - seriously ? Just because he's addressing a business problem ? I didn't see him getting all the other builders together and fixing prices.
    3. But ok if you think there's someone building Gibson level archtops for 'considerably less', shop their prices, and the options they offer, if any, and then see what you get. Or probably won't get.

    I'm not sure how serious a buyer you are or were, but if you didn't jump on a ' used ' ( one or two year old ) Crimson Custom archtop in the last several years, MHO you missed out. But if you didn't want one anyway, then this is just conversation.
    And if you are going to hate Henry's guts anyway, no matter what his company builds, or charges for it, then again that's just conversation too.

    MHO
    Dennis, this is a forum, so by definition, everything is 'conversation'. Whether I own, shopped for or simply desired a Gibson Crimson archtop, I still can offer my opinion. There is no need for your condescending remarks.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Got this info from Dave's. They are also no longer Gibson dealers and said TMZ is close to pulling the plug also.
    They told me Henry wants no more independent Gibson dealers. Only MF, AMS, Zz, GC. No brick and mortar dealers.
    Taylor guitars did something similar recently - I was looking for a 414ce last year and called a lot of online dealers and was told the small shops that carried Taylor when the big guys wouldn't had lost their dealerships as Taylor was focusing on GC, MF, ...

    It's sad to see the small shops getting shut out.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    Dennis, this is a forum, so by definition, everything is 'conversation'. Whether I own, shopped for or simply desired a Gibson Crimson archtop, I still can offer my opinion. There is no need for your condescending remarks.

    I just thought you were very much mistaken and gave my reasons.

  25. #24

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    Utterly astonishing.

    Robot tuners... uh huh,... and...uh.. how did that work out ?...

    and the 2015 model range ?......

    A simple fact worth bearing in mind. There comes a point where a customer will evaluate an asking price for an item. There comes a point where the buyer may consider the item is over priced, (aka "a rip-off"). At that point, the buyer will buy a better value product. (END OF STORY).

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    No high end Gibson archtops until September? Are we on punishment, or does Henry think he's a Saudi oil minister? He's certainly following the latter' game plan. The only problem is that there are a number of other high end archtop builders who will gladly fill the void...and charge considerably less.

    If only Joe Bonamassa would start playing an L5! That would make Henry do a jig!