The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    I am very excited for an upcoming NGD tomorrow. I will post more info on the guitar when it arrives but I wanted to get everyone's opinion. I have heard that when a guitar arrives after shipping in the cold you should not open the case awhile to let it acclimate to the new temperature.

    I feel like waiting will be next to impossible but it will be in the low thirties in the morning and warming up to the forties in the afternoon. What do you guys think on how long I should wait before opening the case?

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  3. #27

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    Not sure, but fast temperature changes are a killer. I would leave it for a long time to aclimatise. Maybe a day! That would certainly be an exercise in self control! I have a mate who has an early 60s es-175. He didn't like the neck shape as it was too thick for him so he had it shaved down so it was thinner front to back and had it re lacquered. He left it in the car one night when it froze and in the morning the lacquer on the neck was as crazed as the rest of the guitar, you would never know it had been refinished.

  4. #28

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    Personally, this time of year, I don't open a case for 24 hours. I open the exterior box to allow warm room air to enter the box. RE the guitar case, I treat it like acclimating new fish to an aquarium. AFTER 24 hours I remove the case from the box, allow it to rest in the room, then after 6 hours or so I open and shut the case every 90 minutes or so for several hours. I've never experienced lacquer cracking, but everyone has a different method.

    Better to be patient, than to be sorry, imo.

  5. #29

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    Paulie,
    The key here is patience, patience. A hasty decision brought on by excitement could result in permanent damage to the finish. Everyone has their opinion, but I practice a slow
    acclimation, depending on weather. I usually take in the cold box and put it in my 60 degree basement for a few hours while in the cardboard box. Then I open one end of box and let that sit for a few more hours. Then I take case out of box , crack open lid 1 inch ( cool air will rush out) for a few seconds then immediately close case lid. I let case then sit for a few more hours in my basement. Then I bring into my temperature and humidity controlled guitar room for yet another few hours and THEN I take the guitar out of the case. Any rapid temperature increase from cold to hot will result in potential finish crazing that you will regret.

    Just my opinion.....the key here is a gradual warm up. I have never had a problem when being patient with this process. Is it over kill, perhaps to some, but not me.


    Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

  6. #30

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    I once had a lacquered pedal steel, it sat in a truck outside in sub freezing weather for some time, don't remember why. I brought it in and opened it up for a gig; the finish which was perfect, slowly crackled and checked before my eyes in slow motion, totally ruined it. I also would advise extreme patience; the shipping trucks and warehouses have little to no heat. Always a little scary shipping in the winter.

  7. #31

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    I received a repaired Gibson from Nashville last week. They overnighted which means sub zero jet temps not to mention it left at 31 degrees and made a plane transfer at 28 degrees. Then it was on a truck at 50 degrees for 4 hours. I turned off all the heat in my home the night before. When the guitar arrived the inside of my house was 53 degrees. The guitar box still felt much colder. I still waited 4 hours and then would just open the case for a quick look
    for another hour.

    Rule of thumb is to wait 24 hours or till the case feels the same temp as its environment.
    Laminates are a bit less risk than solid carved. Unfortunately you will be pacing back and forth like a caged tiger.

    LOL !

    I want to buy a real nice L5 right now but I won't do winter shipping anymore. Follow the golden rules above and you will be fine. Enjoy your new axe !

  8. #32

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    You asked and people with first hand experience have cautioned you to go very slow. I'd say do what 2B says, I have a room in my place that is right across the hall from the central a/c-heat. The sealed box goes on the bed and stays there a whole night (if the box is at all cold). In the morning I crack open the end of the box and test the case, if it's at all cold I wait 6 hours with the end of the box open. Then check again, IF the case is cozy then I unpack and put the case in my office (the coolest room in the house all year) and pop the case open, if the guitar temp is not the same as the room the case gets closed 6 hours. And so on.

    I never want to have a guitar finish all checked because I wasn't careful... I mean really... Ya know ??

    Big


    "I spent my whole life trying not to be careless.
    Women and children can afford to be careless, men cannot"

    Don Corleone (The Godfather)

  9. #33

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    As noted by Vinny , BigMike and 2b, the 24 hour rule is really the prudent approach if we are talking about very cold winter temps.

    Paulie2- Better to be safe then sorry.

  10. #34

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    The longest 24 hours in your life but with patience comes great rewards. Doesn't help matters if delivered by UPS with a damaged box.

    Don't forget the NGD post. Your new baby will be fine and we can drool over your new axe pics.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brucebob
    I once had a lacquered pedal steel, it sat in a truck outside in sub freezing weather for some time, don't remember why. I brought it in and opened it up for a gig; the finish which was perfect, slowly crackled and checked before my eyes in slow motion, ...
    It's January 20, 1951. You finish your gig at the Mousetrap Cafe in Milwaukee at 1:30 AM, pack your gear into the trunk of your Hudson Hornet, and head back to the Hav-A-Nap Motel for a few zees. Next morning, you hit the road in sub-zero temperatures and make the long drive to the Lakeshore Lounge in Rochester. Blowing wind. Lake effect snow. Freezing. You get there at 8:15 PM and are supposed to be set up and playing by 8:30. It's cold outside, but the place is packed, the heat is on, and the place is positively steamy as the winter coats and boots dry off and the patrons relax. The band is ready to go but your guitar is still in the case, which sits closed next to your Gibson GA-50. The manager gets up on stage and asks why you haven't started playing - the place is packed, the joint is jumping, it's 8:35...and you say, what, "Sorry, but my guitar needs to acclimatize before I take it out of the case." Because it's a D'Angelico, or a Gibson L-5. Good luck with that. Hence the ES-175.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 12-13-2017 at 06:27 PM.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    It's January 20, 1951. You finish your gig at the Mousetrap Cafe in Milwaukee at 1:30 AM, pack your gear into the trunk of your Hudson Hornet, and head back to the Motel for a few zees. Next morning, you hit the road in sub-zero temperatures and make the long drive to the Lakeshore Lounge in Rochester. Blowing wind. Lake effect snow. Freezing. You get there at 8:15 PM and are supposed to be set up and playing by 8:30. It's cold outside, but the place is packed, the heat is on, and the place is positively steamy as the winter coats and boots dry off and the patrons relax. The band is ready to go but your guitar is still in the case, which sits closed next to your Gibson GA-50. The manager gets up on stage and asks why you haven't started playing - the place is packed, the joint is jumping, it's 8:35...and you say, what, "Sorry, but my guitar needs to acclimatize before I take it out of the case." Because it's a D'Angelico, or a Gibson L-5. Good luck with that. Hence the ES-175.
    True- and that’s why the guitars of working pros from that period had instruments covered with finish crazing. There are still many of those guitars around - which are likely identified by necks with finish worn off back.

  13. #37

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    Thanks everyone. This is exactly what I thought, but needed to hear it again. Going to be a long 24 hours or more until I can open it.....
    Last edited by Paulie2; 12-13-2017 at 11:47 AM.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by QAman
    True- and that’s why the guitars of working pros from that period had instruments covered with finish crazing. There are still many of those guitars around - which are likely identified by necks with finish worn off back.
    Having had the dead-of-winter experience of moving cold gear from a 0% humidity environment to a hot, 85% humidity club, and watching condensation drip off my telecaster while I was playing, I learned to keep a small terrycloth handy to wipe it down.

    The ES-175 is simply the stand-in, the stunt double that takes a licking for the carved archtop wisely left at home. It is the Timex of the archtop world (being old is fun!). In today's global market, full of everything from poly-dipped Furutama to excellent instruments from every corner of the Far East, that point of view may be a bit obscure, but, back in '49, I think the boys in Kalamazoo knew exactly what they were doing.

  15. #39

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    way way back I took delivery of a '33 L-5 in the dead of winter.
    I waited several hours before opening the case.
    when I took it out and flipped the guitar over, like Brucebob posted above I watched the finish check before my eyes.
    checking on a guitar doesn't bother me one bit, but I was sad to have been the one to allow it to happen, lesson learned.

  16. #40

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    Delivered and signed for, and the box looks in immaculate condition for UPS. And now we wait.

    NGD post coming tomorrow or Friday.

  17. #41

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    CME knows what to do... this label was on the last box I got from them.

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  18. #42

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    It's wicked cold in New England today, and I have rehearsal tonight. Even though I brought my Telecaster, and I tend to think of it as indestructible, I brought it into the office with me. Probably unnecessary, but I figure it can't hurt.

    Years ago, I had an Ovation flat top. I took it to a party one sub-zero night, and in the time it took me to walk several blocks, the bridge separated from the body. I had it repaired, but it never sounded good after that.

  19. #43

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    So there is something to be said for a flat/sanded/washed on finish? :-) If I lived in a cold clime for sure I'd have a tele thinline sanded to bare wood with a light coat of flat tung oil or some such finish on it.

  20. #44

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    So this whole thing is killing me. I'm sitting in my office looking at the box Fed Ex delivered this morning. It was from QAman and contains (I hope his Lee Ritenour L-5 that I am fortunate enough to have purchased. It's sitting there in the box taunting me, just daring me to open it. I told QAman this is going to be a very very long day.

    Even though the box actually felt warm when it arrived, I'm still freaked out to open it and will wait and take all precautions. Years ago I bought a beautiful Goodall flattop that arrived one January day. I couldn't resist or I was too stupid to know (I'll go with the latter), and I opened it almost right away. When I lifted the lid the top finish literally checked in front of my eyes, like a nightmare. One of the stupidest things I've ever done. So, I can't take any chances with this beautiful Lee Ritenour!! Don't worry QAman, I won't!!!

  21. #45

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    I liked the Hudson example. But I don't have problems transporting a guitar to a gig by car in winter, because I can warm up the car and control the temperature on the trip. The worst temperature fluctuation occurs when the guitar is being run from the house to the warm car. In a case like that, where someone who actually cares about the instrument is in charge of it, that doesn't represent a problem.

    But there's no way that you can control what happens to a guitar when a shipping company has it. They don't give a damn about your package. To them it's just cargo. Even with overnight shipping your parcel can be left outside for extended periods and then subjected to temperatures changes as it moves from place to place. I don't like that. I normally place my orders for shipment on Monday in order to assure Tuesday or Wednesday delivery. I recently had a package that was on the truck for delivery on Wednesday, but because UPS was too busy to finish their route during the Holidays my delivery got bumped from Wednesday to Thursday, Thursday to Friday, and Friday to Monday. The weather changed a lot during the course of a week. I was on the phone with UPS every day about the guitar being damaged when the weather turned to freezing. They didn't care. The guitar sat outdoors in the back of the delivery truck from Wednesday to Monday as the weather turned to freezing.

    These kinds of experiences have made me become more conservative than most about weather protection. I live in Chicago, where the weather can become cold cold cold in the winter. I don't want to have problems with finish checking and other thermally induced problems when an expensive guitar is handled as just another piece of cargo by a shipping company. As a result, I won't buy a guitar and have it shipped when it's going to be subjected to huge extremes in temperatures. I won't ship an instrument in winter. Period. And I won't buy during heatwaves during summer. I hold off on making a major purchase until a time when the weather doesn't add risk to the transaction.


    I've learned a few things by shipping hundreds of live exotic saltwater fish on overnight transactions. Even though the wholesalers go the extra mile to keep track of weather forecasts and add heat packs or cold packs to the transport coolers to minimize stress to the fish, it's not good enough. When live animals are shipped during inclement conditions they don't do well. In the best case scenario they get sick, in the worst case scenario they die. As a result I won't buy them unless the weather is mild and is going to stay mild for several days beyond the predicted shipping time. You have to pay attention to the weather, and you have to have the good sense not to complete a transaction if the weather adds too much risk to the situation.

  22. #46

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    it's highly unlikely a guitar will suffer damage being transported from a warm home into the cold and into a warm car.
    checking occurs when there's sudden temp changes, it takes awhile for a warm guitar in it's closed case to get cold and it's not a sudden change anyway.
    but exposing a cold guitar to a warm environment suddenly is usually how it happens.
    in the winter I'll get to the gig early and crack the lid of the case slightly to let it acclimate slowly, even though my old L-5 has tons of checking already.

  23. #47

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    Wow, i did not know a guitar could react so badly because of temperature changes from box to house. Here in Scotland i have played guitars in shops that had no heating at all, ice on inside of windows.

  24. #48

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    So I figure Paulie2 (the OP) might be in need of some entertainment, as it's going to be a long night --- not so different from Christmas Eve for a 10 year old, eh?

    So here's my story:
    Last week I received shipment of my 175 from Chicago Music Exchange. It came in around 5:30 pm after a long day of waiting (as a signature was required) and the box felt warm to the touch, but showed some damage. I was eager to open the box to check for damage, so I did take the case out of the box right away -- just to see if there were any mars on the case. Fortunately, the case was clean and it wasn't making any scary rattling noises. But it felt cool to the touch, so I let the case sit unopened for a few hours.

    Once the case felt warm to the touch, I peeked inside -- everything looked OK! So far, so good! I left the case cracked open 1/2 hour or so and finally I just had to see her! The guitar felt cool to the touch -- but not too cool, mind you -- so I took her out, carefully removed the packing, tuned her up and played a few notes. All was right with the world! It was the nirvana of the NGD!!!!

    And then . . . I watched in horror as ever so slowly a network of cracks appeared across the face of my beautiful new guitar!!!!!!

    Just kidding -- that last part didn't really happen. Everything was fine, the guitar looked and played great, but I felt guilty for pushing the envelope and put her back in the case for the night.

    Next day, I got to really play the new 175 and truly appreciated her. It's been a great love affair ever since. Perfection.
    I was lucky enough that the weather wasn't really tough when my guitar got delivered, and I know I pushed the optimal schedule a bit, but hey -- that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

    Happy pending NGD! May I suggest an evening of internet research on ES 175 related topics? LOL

  25. #49

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    I remember reading a thread on the Les Paul forum where people were leaving their Les Pauls outside and bringing them in quickly to a warm room to get the finish to craze.

    There are some things I'll never really understand.

  26. #50

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    I recieved a guitar via UPS about a week ago, and temps were getting cold here in Michigan.
    Knowing I needed to allow it to warm up, but not willing to wait longer than necessary, this was the perfect time to utilize the infrared temp gun!
    Removes a lot of guess work, lets you monitor the process. I was OK to take it out when it got within 10* F of room temperature.

    These things do come in handy, and the price on them has fallen a lot since I bought mine years ago. Here's a cheaper new one on Amazon $12.99 w/ free Prime shipping:
    HDE Temperature Gun Infrared Thermometer w/ Laser Sight

    *Now there was another guitar I was tempted to buy at the same time, but it was carved spruce top and I was not willing to risk shipping during busy "Black Friday" holiday delivery times AND the cold.on what was a higher value delicate guitar.
    IF you do shock a very cold nitrocellulose finish with too much sudden warmth, you might get to see the dreaded bluish haze that appears suddenly just before you start crying as you watch the finish check

    John


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