My Tele Question - Capacitor

**kevro2000** · 12-27-2007, 07:08 PM

Hi, everyone. I posted this question on the fender forum (.:: Fender®.com ::.) but so far noone has answered. Maybe one of you know?

My tele, which is one of my fave jazz guitars, came with a capacitor that can be added into the circuit. What would happen to the tone/sound of the guitar if I were to put the cap in?

Hope you have a happy new year!!

**mr. beaumont** · 12-27-2007, 09:03 PM

From www.guitarelectronics.com who explains this better than I can...

How does the tone capacitor value affect the sound of the guitar?

Most guitars and basses with passive pickups use between .01 and .1MFD (Microfarad) tone capacitors with .02 (or .022) and .05 (or .047) being the most common choices. The capacitor and tone pot are wired together to provide a variable low pass filter. This means when the filter is engaged (tone pot is turned) only the low frequencies pass to the output jack and the high frequencies are grounded out (cut) In this application, the capacitor value determines the "cutoff frequency" of the filter and the position of the tone pot determines how much the highs (everything above the cutoff frequency) will be reduced. So the rule is: Larger capacitors will have lower cutoff frequency and sound darker in the bass setting because a wider range of frequencies is being reduced. Smaller capacitors will have a higher cutoff frequency and sound brighter in the bass setting because only the ultra high frequencies are cut. For this reason, dark sounding guitars like Les Pauls with humbuckers typically use .02MFD (or .022MFD) capacitors to cut off less of the highs and guitars like Strats and Teles with single coils typically use .05MFD capacitors to allow more treble to be rolled off. Keep in mind that the capacitor value only affects the sound when the tone control is being used (pot in the bass setting) The tone capacitor value will have little to no effect on the sound when the tone pot is in the treble setting.

and i nicked this from the telecaster discussion page Telecaster Guitar Forum - guitars, gear, amps and strings

what kinda tele do ya got, a '52 RI?

**kevro2000** · 12-28-2007, 04:45 PM

Thanks Mr. B!!

Thats a great explanation.

My tele is the American Vintage ‘62 Telecaster® Custom. (.:: Fender®.com ::.)The online spec sheet doesn't mention that it comes with the extra capacitor, but when I bought, the store manager went to great lengths to make sure I knew that the capacitor was in the case, and could be used to change the neck pick up tone.

I appreciate the research you did for me!!

**mr. beaumont** · 12-28-2007, 06:49 PM

gotta help out a fellow tele picker.

those '62's are fantastic...i love a bound tele.

if the tone knob works adequately now i'd say don't worry about this extra cap. a capacitor won't affect tone, it might just give you a little more or less play with the tone pot depending on it's value vs. the one that's already in there.

**kevro2000** · 12-28-2007, 09:00 PM

Thanks... thats the advice that I'll think I'll take... leaving everything the way it is. At least I'll have the option in case I want to experiment later.

What's your tele? How many do you have? What other instruments & amps do you have, if'n U don't mind me asking?

**MichaelJohnson@noirmusic.** · 01-03-2008, 10:59 PM

I thought I would sneak in on this Thread and see if either of you two had much expierence with the Thinline Teles. How do they compare to the non-hollow body sound? I have been cruising youtube trying to get an idea but some other opinions would help me a lot!!!

**kevro2000** · 01-04-2008, 03:05 PM

Sorry, Michael,

I've never played a thinline at all.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-04-2008, 04:49 PM

via a little shameless self promotio, i'll aim to help you...

jeff matz: audio files

that's me...

"autumn leaves" and "here's that rainy day" are my thinline. "tis autumn" is a standard tele, and "things we did last summer" is my '72 with a neck humbucker (can you tell i like telecasters?) the amp on every recording is a fender blues junior...so you can do a little comparing...

i find the thinline to have a woody, natural sound, but still very telecaster-y, which means plenty of bite and twang on the bridge pickup and a nice smoothness on the neck. i think the bottom end on the thinline is a little "looser," the notes don't snap quite as hard as on a solid body tele. this is a good thing.

it's a small shallow body, so don't expect any real acoustic volume-- however, it is a little louder unplugged than my other teles.

on the downside, it's voiced pretty bright, which means a little amp tweaking is necessary if you like a dark, jim hall-y jazz tone. it's also a shade on the noisy side (good old single coils so if you're a poorly grounded venue, such as my basement, you're gonna notice some buzz if your fingers are not on the strings.

overall, i really like mine. i especially like the big fat maple neck and sall vintage frets (great intonation) i did mod the saddles for compensated brass since these photos were taken. the brass melows the attack a little and the compensation allows for near perfect intonation. the recordings were done with the brass saddles.

**MichaelJohnson@noirmusic.** · 01-04-2008, 06:15 PM

Great playing!!!

It does make a fair bit of difference, doesn't it! (Thinline Vs Standard)

Also you managed to answer one of my long standing questions....how much does guitar shape Vs pups effect tone on solid body electrics. The difference between a humbucker and a singles is huge. I am definetly a single coil guy. I have to admit that even with years of classical guitar one of my favorite guitar sounds was the Intro/playing in Dobie Grey's "Drift Away". I used to sit and listen to that song over and over when I was a little kid.

I love that Teles can produce a warm tone but the snap and woody sound seems like it could be really awesome in a Jazz context.... I have nothing against the tradtional flat wound, tone rolled off, pick free Jazz sound but when I hear that I don't think "I want to sound like that"....

Consider me a Fan....

**MattEg** · 01-07-2008, 10:11 AM

Mr Matz, Great Jazz on the teles. You'd think it was a giant hollowbody sound if you didn't tell us. I love teles, someday my squier will be replaced with a real one. But for now it does a great job.

Thanks for letting us hear.

**diyguitarmods** · 01-27-2009, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by kevro2000

Hi, everyone. I posted this question on the fender forum (.:: Fender®.com ::.) but so far noone has answered. Maybe one of you know?

My tele, which is one of my fave jazz guitars, came with a capacitor that can be added into the circuit. What would happen to the tone/sound of the guitar if I were to put the cap in?

Hope you have a happy new year!!

Hey man,
First of all Teles sound amazing as jazz guitars especially with the tone down. I've heard many guys compare the timber to that of a fender rhodes. I would suggest installing the cap. If its a .02 mfd cap then it'll sound pretty good for jazz. I put a varitone design of mine in my strat and I found that a .047 mfd black beauty cap at about 5 on the tone knob sounds really good through the neck pickup of the strat. Here are some audio samples so you can hear how six different valued capacitors will affect the tone of your guitar, Adding A Varitone To A Guitar

**kevro2000** · 01-27-2009, 04:40 PM

I'd forgotten about this thread until diyguitarmods responded. To date, I've still not tried the extra capacitor. However, I still extremely enjoy this guitar. Its a blast.

The thing that is bugging me now...while I love the tone of the neck pickup, the volume isn't as loud. I find that when I switch to the 2nd or 3rd pickup position, I have to be ready to turn the volume way low. I use to have a Mexi-tele, and it never had such a volume difference 'tween the pickups. Is this normal?

**mr. beaumont** · 01-27-2009, 05:00 PM

check the height on those pickups. consider lowering the bridge (or raising the neck, but if you get the pup too close you may find that the magnetic field is a bit too strong and it will pull on the strings too much, it might make you sound a bit out of tune...)

**diyguitarmods** · 01-27-2009, 06:08 PM

I think your best bet is to just lower the neck pickup and if necessary take the bridge pickup a little up to balance them out. Pickup height is often over looked but is pretty important for your over all tone.

**wizard3739** · 01-27-2009, 10:16 PM

Wow! This thread has answered most of my questions for my Tele project. Mr. B (Jeff): I love the sound you get with your Tele and it looks really nice too. I'm thinking in terms of a low end body (maple or Ash) and a high end neck (Maple neck with Maple or Ebony fretboard) both from Warmoth. I'm hoping to be able to closely match the characteristics (size & feel) of my Sadowsky. The only questions I have now are regarding the pickup (neck PU) and what would give me the best jazz sound.
Thanks to all of you for the good Tele info.

wiz

**FWBO** · 01-28-2009, 07:55 PM

Mr. Matz,

What beautiful tone you get from your teles!

Have you ever wished they came in a shorter scale length for chordal work- as did the squier thinline tele, with the set neck, 24.75 scale and SD designed pups? I wished I had picked up one of these when they were still in production.

What kind of settings do you run the BJ at?

cheers

Pete

**flatfive** · 01-30-2009, 03:10 AM

Jeff--I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed your playing AND the tone you wring from your Telecasters. Inspired and beautiful to hear.

I'm curious to know if you are using flatwound strings on any of those instruments. Regardless, great tone and tasty playing.

**mr. beaumont** · 02-09-2009, 09:26 PM

hey there,

i hadn't checked this thread in a long time--but someone tipped me off that there were some specific questions asked of me, so i'll try to answer them as best as i can.

i use flatwounds on every guitar i own, .11 gauge. currently, i have swapped the necks from my thinline and american standard, and on the am.std. neck/thinline body guitar, i use an unwound G (.18) all of the other guitars sport a wound G. the thnlined neck/am. std. body and wiring has become my main guitar--i really like the necks on the made in mexico reisues--they're much more "hand filling" like they used to make 'em.

although, truth be told, the thinline body/american neck guitar is a screamer now--i play it with a country band every now and then! but that's a very bright, non-jazzy sounding instrument compared to my others.

so for jazz, when i use the blues junior, i set it roughly as follows

fat switch on

bass 3 o'clock
mid: maxed
high 8 o'clock

volume: just high enough so that the hardest notes i hit with a pick have a little "tooth" to them.

master: to taste

reverb: to taste (in a big live room, i will use none)

i also play with a combination of my pick and fingers, so that can soften the tone on chords a bit. occasionally, for some pieces, i'll put the pick away completely.

tone on the guitar--> depends on the room. normally what i do is turn it down until it sounds too "muddy" to my ears, then bring it back in a little bit until my pick attack is noticable but soft edged (think early jimmy raney)

i flat out prefer long scale instruments, that's why i play teles, and the only archtop i own is a longer scale instrument too. to me, there's a defined difference in how chords sound--on a short scale instrument, everything blends together nicely, but sometimes the individual voices get lost. it's like the eagles singing harmony. on a longer scale guitar, the voices have more independence to my ears, and each part can be clearer and more defined, even in the context of a softer jazz tone. it's like the beach boys singing harmony.

i also like the rounder fretboard radius of fender style guitars. to me, it's much easier to play these chords on a freboard that isn't as flat as a gibson's!

hope all of this helps. there's a couple of other tele lovers on this board, including the monster player matt warnock. i beleive he uses a polytone amp, and his tele has a neck mini humbucker, but his sound is still "tele-jazz" to me. he sounds like ed bickert if he hung out with wayne shorter instead of paul desmond!

**NSJ** · 02-10-2009, 01:16 AM

What are people's thoughts about putting 13 or 14 strings on a Tele? Currently, I'm getting my Tele ('52 reissue) setup for 12's (dynamic wound). Anybody try really thick strings on it?? I find that anything thinner than 12s, I don't like very much, in terms of tone contribution.

What about the issue of flats/chrome vs. dynamics? I hesitate to put flats on it , for fear of losing that what makes a Tele a Tele. Any thoughts? Mr. B: I see you put flats on yours.

**mr. beaumont** · 02-10-2009, 12:23 PM

i never thought i lost much by going to flats--after all, when the tele was first made, everyone would have been using heavy flatwounds! perhaps, when i flip to the bridge pup, the twang is a little more duane eddy than don rich, but it's still there.

i don't really hear too much of a difference between .11's and say, .13's, on a solid body guitar (although i definitely DO hear a difference between .11's and lighter gauges)

there's so much that goes into the tone factor, so i just use the heaviest strings i can bend comfortably, which right now, is .11's. I've gone as high as .12's, but i didn't notice any benefits.

to me, the biggest thing is the wound G. SO MUCH BETTER for intonation!

**NSJ** · 02-10-2009, 12:26 PM

Thanks for the feedback, Mr. B, much appreciated. I'm gonna look into that wound G string and test it out.

**NSJ** · 02-12-2009, 10:32 PM

Well, I got my Replica '52 back from the setup, one issue that was confirmed: perfect intonation below the 12th fret is not possible because of the "vintage" saddle, in which each saddle hosts two strings instead of the normal one. I would need to make a mod and get another saddle type at some point.

**mr. beaumont** · 02-13-2009, 12:16 AM

try compensated saddles. they're available from several manufacturers. i can get the intonation close enough on my teles that my tuner can't tell.

one thing to take in account is that these compensated saddles are tilted in order to compensate for string length, and they come ready for guitars with an unwound G. this means the saddle for the D and G tilts away so that the G string is further away from the nut than the D. if you're using a wound G, simply flip this saddle over, so that the G is closer, in order to reap the best intonation benefits.

the other option is a six saddle bridge, which you can get at stewmac.com. your tele has 4 screws to affix it to the top of the guitar, so make sure if you buy a new bridge, it has four screw holes. some models of telecaster, like the american standard and deluxe, have three screw holes.

personally, i like the look (and ease) of three saddles, so the compensated saddles was the way to go for me.

**NSJ** · 02-13-2009, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

try compensated saddles. they're available from several manufacturers. i can get the intonation close enough on my teles that my tuner can't tell.

one thing to take in account is that these compensated saddles are tilted in order to compensate for string length, and they come ready for guitars with an unwound G. this means the saddle for the D and G tilts away so that the G string is further away from the nut than the D. if you're using a wound G, simply flip this saddle over, so that the G is closer, in order to reap the best intonation benefits.

the other option is a six saddle bridge, which you can get at stewmac.com. your tele has 4 screws to affix it to the top of the guitar, so make sure if you buy a new bridge, it has four screw holes. some models of telecaster, like the american standard and deluxe, have three screw holes.

personally, i like the look (and ease) of three saddles, so the compensated saddles was the way to go for me.

You got it exactly right, Mr. B. That was what the guys at Guitar Works recommended, and that's the avenue I will pursue.