-
I was recently dickering with someone over a late 40s guitar. The selling points included the originality of the pickguard and plastic tuner buttons. I told the seller that this was of little consequence to me, since I was looking to keep the guitar, not flip it, and that I fully expected the plastic parts to die while I owned it. In fact, the first thing I would do would be to remove the pickguard, especially if it was going to be in the case for any period of time, so that it would not outgas and hurt the finish and metal parts on the guitar. I would likely do the same with the tuners, and replace them with modern reproductions.
I also have a 1940 L7 that has some clouding on the pickguard, and keep that piece out of harms way.
I have tried to get some better information on this online, because I still have some questions in my mind, but the opinions are all over the place:
Am I correct in assuming that they are all going to go bad, sooner or later?
When precisely did Gibson stop selling pickguards (and tuner buttons) that are chemically unstable?
Could an owner of a guitar with a pickguard that is still 100%, or where the clouding has started, store it in a fashion that prevents rot, or further rot (say, in a freezer, air tight container, in some sort of liquid, I know I am reaching here)?
Any chemists want to weigh in on this?
-
09-29-2016 10:24 AM
-
"Could an owner of a guitar with a pickguard that is still 100%, or where the clouding has started, store it in a fashion that prevents rot, or further rot (say, in a freezer, air tight container, in some sort of liquid, I know I am reaching here)?"
I wondered about this and it seem like a prophylactic coating of some type (like silicone based armor all) might keep the plastic from degrading?
Anyway I would think if chemistry had an answer to pg degradation it would be common knowledge by now.
Maybe Heritage and Ibanez have the long term ticket using wood pickguards.
-
once it starts you can't reverse it. you can slow it by coating the guard, but you can't stop it.
celluloid varies from batch to batch, I have guitars from the 20s and 30s that still have their guards in perfect shape save for some warping, and also have guitars from the 60s that have long ago outgassed.
a lot of old movie films have been destoyed from outgassing celluloid.
Gibson has not stopped making guards that outgass, I've seen some only 10-15 yrs old that have deteriorated.
-
What do you coat them with?
-
Originally Posted by nopedals
don't bother imo, it makes the guard look too shiny and doesn't slow things down enough to matter.
like I said, once it starts, it's cooked.
-
I'd not worry any more than if it had original strings. It is not that difficult to make a new one with modern plastic.
Last edited by icr; 09-29-2016 at 12:26 PM.
-
I had a prewar ('39?) L5 whose guard was like new, except for the pick marks. Originally Posted by wintermoon
-
Seems to be a batch to batch thing with Gibson. I've got a late 60's ES-355 which had early signs of "crystallisation". Put it in the freezer about 4 years ago and it's not got any worse. Had a very good bound repro made using plastic rather than cellulose .. it should last for a very long time.
Also got an early 60's Gibson Classical which had the same issue with celluloid tortoise biding. Great guitar, so in the end I had that changed, Luthier did a great job.
Once the celluloid starts to oxidise and break down you can't really stop it by covering it etc. Cold temperatures will slow the reaction considerably hence the freezer method to preserve the original.
There seems to be some very nice plastic faux tortoise around these days. I'd now automatically get a repro made and preserve the original.
-
I hope there's no food in that freezer. Originally Posted by old tube
-
Originally Posted by wintermoon
I hope there's no food in that freezer.
Eveything does seem to taste better .. slow release marinade perhaps?
-
Also, my '24 L5, early harp guitar, and mandocello (avatar) all had guard still like new. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
-
Nitric acid makes a good meat tenderiser... Originally Posted by old tube
-
They may have used real tortoiseshell back then Originally Posted by Woody Sound
-
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
They may have used real tortoiseshell back then
nah, but maybe the turn of the century guitars did.
-
So even freezing one is a bad idea, because even a very slow outgas, even if you mummify the thing, could contaminate food or screw up your freezer compartment?
Are you guys with old but intact guards storing them in your case?
-
Originally Posted by nopedals
So even freezing one is a bad idea, because even a very slow outgas, even if you mummify the thing, could contaminate food or screw up your freezer compartment?
Are you guys with old but intact guards storing them in your case?
no way, store them away from everything, including yourself
or better yet, heave them. unless you're going to make a new one w/the old binding they're useless.
-
Inside a ziplock at the bottom of the freezer, mine is OK. Hasn't contaminated anything.
You're right about the questionable reason for preserving them at all as they just start outgassing again as soon as they warm up. But if it helps sell the guitar on in the future, no matter how ridiculous that seems, then it's worth doing in my book. Same thing as knackered original pots, etc.
-
I have heard of the practice of making new guards with old binding, but have never found anyone who does this. Anybody know of someone who does this? It's not something I have skills to do.
-
Originally Posted by nopedals
our own fws6 is an expert guard maker, besides having a world class archtop collection.
-
I did a couple times. Not so easy.
-
Ok.. internet hearsay time .. I understood that you do NOT want it in a freezer.
The guitars with the worst rot are the ones that cannot breath. Off gassing is normal (?) but if it offgases in the case where the gasses cannont escape you are in trouble. Guitars that are NEVER in the case tend to hold up better.
This is why you should play a Fender. Worst case scenario you have a little shrinkage.
-
Originally Posted by SamBooka
-
Pickguard of my '48 ES-125 is still intact. Guitar is always hanging on the wall, and it came without an original case so perhaps previous owners also kept the guitar outside a case?
Anyway, I agree with icr and think pickguards should be considered disposable, just as strings. Their only job is to protect the guitar from picking damage. When it gets too scratchy you just replace it. But hey, tell that to all those fools who sell old pickguards on ebay and ask big $$$ for them...
-
Are all old pickguards going to fail?
Hmm? If they are cellulose, then yes. Sooner or later they will outgas and disintegrate.
Once they begin deteriorating, I'd replace them and freeze the original for resale with the guitar.
One of the things I like about my Heritage and my Unity is the non-plastic pickguard.
Reply With Quote
Giving the Loar some love
Today, 05:05 PM in The Builder's Bench