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  1. #1

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    'Sup?

    Anybody in here a recording guru?

    Please post anything you know about recording.

    I'm looking for things like micing technique for your amp, software, equipment and quircky tips for low budget recording that i wouldn't know. But don't limit your response to that... anything goes.

    Thankx

    regards

    Fish

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  3. #2

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    Hi!

    I'm currently doing an Audio Engineering course at SAE - you've probably heard of it - so I'd love to share ideas with anyone, if they've got something I don't know or anything like that.

    Are you looking for software etc., or just throwing topics out?

  4. #3

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    hey mr gordo bro,

    Yeah a bit of both. I am using sound forge but would like to upgrade to Pro Tools LE when i have a small fortune lying around one day

    I have a buddy who did sound enginering in Cape Town, he is quite clued up. So if i don't know something you wanna know i can ask him.

    I am specifically looking for tips as to how to get the best results with low budget equipment. You know, for the time being while i save up my small fortune.

    My set up is basically an old mixer, a good one though, just old. An onboard sound card, not good, i know, but gotto make due. my amp, my pedals, my guitar and a cheap mic. I programme drums in fruity loops and then mix everything in acid pro.

    Any tips? except for stop waisting your time and buy better equipment, i don't need to hear that.

    Peace bro

  5. #4

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    not so sure about the whole process, but i tend to look after my own mic positions and stuff if i record somewhere: on my amp I'll have the mic at the top left facing directly inwards, and very nearly touching the amp (the speaker is 12" and in the middle of the cab) this usually really gets the tone of the amp
    On an acoustic, I'll try and get the mic aimed between the soundhole and where the neck meets the body, but not too close or your hands get caught!!
    Hooray!
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  6. #5

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    What mic do you use? Compressor or dynamic?

  7. #6

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    SM58 on amp, my mates condenser (might be electro-harmonix) on an acoustic
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  8. #7

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    a samson? i don't even know what the make of mine is, but i know it is dynamic so the placement is totally different. what amp do use? what sound card do you have? What software do you use?

  9. #8

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    My amp is a Fender hotrod 112, but as for the other things i can't help you I'm afraid, i can't manage with the rest, although i can tell you that my mate who tends to do it if not in a studio, uses a big digital mixer, with a couple of mixers going in for drums and stuff, sorry i cant be more useful
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  10. #9

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    don't worry about it man. i used to own a fender princeton 112, it was a great amp but i sold it what kind of sound does hotrod give? i never heard one...

  11. #10

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    To be honest its not amazing; it hums and cuts out and its heavier than a piano and its not versatile. However i really love it, as the sounds it does get have really dictated my style to me, if you are lazy through this amp it will do horrible things to you, but if you're on the ball, at a gig where you're loud enough just to start the tubes breaking up its something special. its the tweed limited edition, somewhere between a hotrod and a blues special prototype i believe too
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  12. #11

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    sounds great, i love unforgiving equipment. I listen to people play my guitar and i'm like wow, that sounds shit and they are all better than me, playing and theory wise, but i know my guitar and i can make it sound like i want it too. i know what you are saying man.

  13. #12

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    Well, I had some tips from my teacher for low-budget recording.

    One thing that works for what i would call practice recording is using whatever line out you have on whatever piece of equipment (amp or e.g. a not-so-good zoom pedal i have lying around) and plug it into your computer's line in. Something with a headphones output for example will do the trick nicely. There's a free program called Audacity, in which you can do something like multitracking, and the result is something you can listen to to better your skills. No great quality to expect though, and the sound you'll get isn't anywhere near something great, but for practice it's quite good and basically FREE

    If you have some $$s to spare, consider a line6 Toneport UX1 or 2. My teacher has one and it sounds really great. It comes with a plethora of amp emulations and effects, you can use it to record or to play. The more expensive ux2 can record via a mic with analog levels and has multiple line inputs. That's about all I can say about it, since I don't own one... Important is that you can record practically in real-time with this. Something that can be more problematic when using your computer with other equipment due to slow I/O in Windows....

    Well that's about all I know. Hope you get something from it!

    Pieter

  14. #13

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    yeah peter, that was a great reply. i will look out for that equipment. i lined in an old amp (tf-200) that i traded in for my new amp tf-300, it sounded aweful on playback. The tf-300 does not come with a line out, so i mic it up to an analoge mixer and i'm getting okay sounds. not great but workable. i record rythm parts and i play over them, for practice, i am not very professional. i would not suggest anyone line in their amps though, it looses all dynamics and tone, maybe i just didnt do it right?

  15. #14

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    I didn't much care for Line 6 when I saw a demo of their Toneport etc. at the Melbourne Guitar fest. I'd stay away from them and just stick with Audacity unless you really want the effects.

    My internet unfortunately cut out before, but yeah, I basically mic my amp in the position Sean does his.

    Are you recording other instruments or just a guitar?

  16. #15
    i would not recommend putting a mic right up to the amp because of the way that sound comes out of a speaker. if you pull it back a couple inches you can find a really sweet spot where you get even more out of your efforts.

    just my experiences

    Thunder

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishpaste View Post
    What mic do you use? Compressor or dynamic?

    For straight acoustic guitar and a hefty price, I've known nothing to sound better then ribbon mics for acoustic instruments... But that doesn't really address the original subject, does it? hmm.



    A good free program for multitracking on your computer, that I like to use all the time is called Kristal. You can download it here: KRISTAL Audio Engine

    The only issue then is programming drums, etc. but that can be done easily with many a midi programs online (or a drum kit. ). Latency can be a problem though, with some sound cards and computers...
    Brain: "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
    Pinky: "Yes, but why does the chicken cross the road, huh, if not for love? (sigh) I do not know."

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheThunder View Post
    i would not recommend putting a mic right up to the amp because of the way that sound comes out of a speaker. if you pull it back a couple inches you can find a really sweet spot where you get even more out of your efforts.

    just my experiences

    Thunder
    Yeah but that depends on what you got. with a dynamic mic you really have to crank your amp to get any type of signal at all, let alone with your mic a foot or two away. i will try it on the weekend when i can make noise, thanks dude.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    For straight acoustic guitar and a hefty price, I've known nothing to sound better then ribbon mics for acoustic instruments... But that doesn't really address the original subject, does it? hmm.



    A good free program for multitracking on your computer, that I like to use all the time is called Kristal. You can download it here: KRISTAL Audio Engine

    The only issue then is programming drums, etc. but that can be done easily with many a midi programs online (or a drum kit. ). Latency can be a problem though, with some sound cards and computers...
    Thanks man this will be really helpfull, i know how to arrange instruments on a computer and i have my software that i use, always good to have substitutes and to learn new ways.

    But you are right, there are no substitutes for jamming with people.

  20. #19

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    an update on the information i couldn't provide earlier for fishpaste!
    Just had a double recording session yesterday (two different groups) and in the second, i was playing with my own setup (apart from amp), recorded by a friend who is class at recording:
    Was playing through an Ashdown bass amp, which gave a startlingly good tone, obviously a bit bass heavy but it just means you have to be careful when playing.
    The mic was an MXL condenser, at the top left of the cab (212) but with a popshield this time. I mention the popshield because it completely rounded off the sound nicely (they are used for vocals to stop harsh constanants like P and B from booming with the rush of air from the lips) Hence i am now convinced that a vocal popshield is some kind of trade secret in recording
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  21. #20

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    hi

    The ultimate system to me would be a laptop (mac) with an Mbox2(digidesign) And a C414 (Web Page Under Construction)
    Condenser mics are far more sensitive, but a lot mor expensive. if you just want to record some of your licks you shouldn't spend too much.
    Probably a good idea is not to use your recording computer to go on the internet.
    Just one music computer and a less expensive one to do other things.

    That's just my idea...

  22. #21

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    Hey Peeps.

    The solution to all your guitar recording problems would be to get a POD XT Live. It is the most amazing piece of equipment. It hooks up to your PC via USB, and you get to choose from so many modeled amplifiers and cabinets, loads of guitar effects, aswell as how you want your amp mic set up. You have to read more about this great product. Go to Line 6.

    Ciao

  23. #22

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    Apple computer with an intel processor and with apple's logic express (great app for the money, easy to use)

    I use a creative audigy 2 external USB sound card, works fine, sounds good. Speakers: KRK

    For amp, I just use a SM57 on it and plug it in direct.

    If you use Apple's logic pro or express you will not be disappointed.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by pivdstee View Post
    Well, I had some tips from my teacher for low-budget recording.

    One thing that works for what i would call practice recording is using whatever line out you have on whatever piece of equipment (amp or e.g. a not-so-good zoom pedal i have lying around) and plug it into your computer's line in. Something with a headphones output for example will do the trick nicely. There's a free program called Audacity, in which you can do something like multitracking, and the result is something you can listen to to better your skills. No great quality to expect though, and the sound you'll get isn't anywhere near something great, but for practice it's quite good and basically FREE

    If you have some $$s to spare, consider a line6 Toneport UX1 or 2. My teacher has one and it sounds really great. It comes with a plethora of amp emulations and effects, you can use it to record or to play. The more expensive ux2 can record via a mic with analog levels and has multiple line inputs. That's about all I can say about it, since I don't own one... Important is that you can record practically in real-time with this. Something that can be more problematic when using your computer with other equipment due to slow I/O in Windows....

    Well that's about all I know. Hope you get something from it!

    Pieter
    Agreed with what you say about listening to yourself playing. It is a great way to better your playing and realizing things. Audacity is very adequate for this purpose. Also, the fact that you're recording makes you more focused. I find that with a good mic and use of functions and effects on Audacity does give good results.

    Question: for non-professional/basic use, do you think that there are functionalities missing in Audacity that are found in other free or low cost software?
    __________________________
    Jazz-Blues-Classical>>Eclectic

  25. #24

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    Hey Fishpaste,

    I really enjoy recording and learning about recording. I've taken a college class in recording, I've got many books, a bunch of equipment... I'm a hobbyiest home recorder.

    Some things that have worked for me...

    Drums - use samples and trigger your drums with a drum controller, I use a Korg padkontrol. Or, use midi loops and customize them for your tune (you can completely change a midi loop, and the good loops were played by studio drummers and have great feel, groove, dynamics). Using a real drum kit is a nightmare for a home recordist; you need a bunch of mics that take forever to properly place and you need a really good room.

    Electric guitar - go direct, I've spent a bunch of time comparing a vintage Fender Princeton Reverb to going direct thru my amp simulators - a Boss GT 3 or better yet a Digitech GNX 3000. I've gotten better results with the amp sims. The amp sims can be a bit complicated in that they have so many parameters and variables and it's a bit a work to dial in a good sound, but they've been the best solution for me.

    Bass - direct thru a direct box; or 2) played with a keyboard recorded as midi (whenever you're using samples or synthesizers always record midi as it gives you more flexibility latter). I've tried to record my bass thru an amp miced by an sm57, the results were way inferior to going direct.

    Acoustic guitar - has to be miced. I have a good pickup system in my acoustic, it's good for live music but inferior to using condenser mics. I use two condenser mics and set them up as explained in the following article (I use this same technique for both nylon and steel string acoustics):

    http://bearcabinrecording.com/?p=33#more-33

    All other sounds, played via a keyboard and recorded as midi.

    What I've read to be extremely important to your mixing enviornment and often overlooked is the proper placement of your monitors and acoustic treatment of your room. This is a big topic that I'm just starting to dig into. My next project is to do sound treatment of my home studio.

    And last but not least, check out this post, this guy use to be a pro and has a real talent for writing about recording techniques.

    Why do your recordings sound like ass? - Cockos Confederated Forums
    Last edited by fep; 02-15-2009 at 10:59 AM.

  26. #25

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    I have completed 106 cds so far and I use different techniques depending on what I am looking for on each. Sometimes I go direct into my recorder which is a R0loand 2480dvd and other times I mic my amp if I want the sound of being in a small club. As far as mic types I use both condenser and dynamic again depending on the sound I am looking for. A condenser gives one a sharper crisper tone and is more sensative while a dynamic is warmer and more forgiving, especially on vocals.

    A condenser works better for a Methany sort of clarity whereas a dynamic works better for the Montgomery sort of warmth. In either case what I do is to place a mic about 8 to 12 " in front of the amp speaker and then put a blanket over the setup. This tends to capture all the sound without letting it dissipate into the room so much. Not sure if any of that helps but it's what I do anyway.
    jam on,
    Terry

  27. #26
    Indirect recording is method of actually plugging into a real guitar amplifier and using a microphone to record the sound. Minimally this method requires an amplifier, one or two microphones, mic-preamp and a converter. However, a whole heap of other units can be added, for example eq’s, mixers, compressors etc.

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