The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #151

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    german made heinz seifert guitar

    all rest is added on..the guild bigbsy..the bigsby aluminum bridge..the (gibson) p90's

    i dig the triangular fretmarkers...rickenbacker-esque

    we have a couple of german guitar experts here..hopefully they will chime in

    cheers

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #152

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    Don't forget the Barney Kessel signature chicken head knob!

  4. #153

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    Thank you for that, very helpful. I looked up that name and images and it is clear that is correct. I did not find any non cutaway types like mine. I now wonder about the age, it was well used when I got it in about 1960.
    Glen Alison

  5. #154

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    Hi Glen,

    Seifert: possibly - but I am not 100% positive without seeing more details. One photo is not enough as there are endless quite similiar looking GDR made archtops out there.
    Strange: headstock is reverse to any Seifert I have seen so far. Strange too is the fact that it is a noncutay.
    If you could supply a front picture of the head, a side view & back view of the neck / head transition, some detail shots of the heel might help a lot to identify the maker.

    Cheers

  6. #155

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    As noted, more information is needed, but it:
    -has a carved top;
    -was hand-built in East Germany, which was a very different place from West Germany at the time;
    -was built in the 1950s;
    -has been unfortunately (IMO) converted into an electric guitar in a way that cannot easily be undone, with big holes cut into the top for the two P-90s, as well as holes for the switches.
    -the "square screw in the heel" is a "Stauffer-Legnani" bolt. It attaches the neck to the body, and also allows for adjustment of the neck angle (see photo). Used on many East German archtops as well as some West German ones, and on various other stringed instruments. The joint itself is either a straight or tapered mortice joint - no dovetail.

    It should sound great as an electic archtop guitar, but its acoustic function has been severely compromised. It is worth the value of the hardware on it.
    Attached Images Attached Images Vintage German Archtops-stauffer-legnani-jpg 

  7. #156

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    so glen, how does that thing sound? 2 p90s and a single volume....3 way pup switch...and pups close together..i'd imagine that middle pickup position sounds pretty wild!...

    it's a compromised artifact, but vintage compromised...so still very intriguing!! really cool

    glad some of our german guitar specialists have appeared

    cheers

  8. #157

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    Hi All

    Hoping you can help me with this

    I have an old archtop guitar of an unknown make been looking everywhere and it looks like a German Jazz guitar from around the 50s very much has similar features to some Rogers / Hernnsdorf / Perlgolds

    The edge trim and inside the sound holes are ivory not sure on the tuning knobs

    It has foreign stamped on the headstock so it's an import and 49 stamped on the side of the headstock along with a rounded glue mark and the neck doesn't have a tension rod

    The pickguard is a later addition and looks to have been replace multiple times

    The inside label has peeled off so we don't actually have anything to help us identify it

    I could be wrong about my assumptions but any help is muchly appreciated
    Attached Images Attached Images Vintage German Archtops-screenshot_20200717-193640__01-jpg Vintage German Archtops-screenshot_20200717-193549__01-jpg Vintage German Archtops-screenshot_20200717-193612__01-jpg Vintage German Archtops-screenshot_20200717-193625__01-jpg Vintage German Archtops-screenshot_20200717-193559__01-jpg 

  9. #158

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    look into musima guitars...that tailpiece shape was used by them

    nice spruce top


    cheers

  10. #159

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    Thanks for the reply neatomic

    Would you know of anymore guitar makers from that period that had a round logo I see musima does have a round logo but most appear to be written ones and I don't know if that's beacause the logo changed after a period of time to the written one

    I seen Perlgolds have an almost round logo also just wondering if there might be more makees that I could look into

  11. #160

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    It's an East German-built instrument. Makers in the Workers' Paradise used tailpieces, bridges and tuning machines from the same suppliers, so there is a lot of overlap between them in terms of hardware, Most of them used the "Stauffer-Legnani" neck bolt system as well. And there were box-makers who were separate from neck makers, so one sees similar necks on a variety of different guitar bodies as well.

    This guitar looks pretty decent in terms of its design and appointments. It's clearly not a low-end model, based on the more elaborate purfling, the use of rosewood for the headstock overlay and pickguard, and what appears to be a German carve on the plates.

    It has lots of similarities to some of the models distributed by Perl-Gold that were built for them by Martin Graubner, but could just as easily be from another maker.

    Please post some pix of the entire front and back of the instrument, in natural daylight, so we may get a more complete picture of the instrument.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 07-18-2020 at 03:05 PM.

  12. #161

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    Can't say much about the guitar I am afraid, just wondering who would have stamped the word 'Foreign' on the headstock? Are you located in the US? Was that once a common procedure when importing foreign instruments to the US? And what may be the meaning of '49' on the side of the headstock? Too bad the label has been torn off through the f-hole.

    Nice spruce top indeed.

  13. #162

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    From one of my friends who used to buy and sell antiques they said some products if exported had to be stamped with foreign this was before the EU and so the UK where I live would have required a foreign stamp

    I have no clue on the 49 unless that's like a year marker

    Indeed a shame we have no actual markings from the maker either by a headstock logo or the inner label all we have is a visible location where the inner label was and also the circular glue residue where the headstock logo would have been

    Thanks for the comments all really helpful information

  14. #163

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    you can't base it solely on the residue left on headstock..doesn't mean emblem was round...could just be how they applied the glue...or even how they removed it!

    here's a musima with same type headstock




    also hamertone is correct, many of the german guitar makers shared parts...so those tailpieces do show up often...on herbert wurlitzers and heinz seiferts..and the triangular fret marked necks as well...

    unless you find an excact duplicate, might be very difficult to determine exactly

    luck

    cheers

  15. #164

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    for what it's worth, back in the day when Gibson was exporting guitars they had a small made in usa stamp on the back of the headstock [small, not like the large one that appeared on guitars starting circa '70]
    although not sure exactly why as they already had usa printed on the label inside.

  16. #165

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    Here's something to refresh this lovely thread - several Hoyer Specials built from @1950-@1965. The one at the bottom middle is a custom mini-me Special, 16" wide, with a 23 1/2" scale. And the one at the bottom right is a Hoyer Solist, the older but smaller brother to the Special, that shares with its larger sibling the Fu-Manchu soundholes, fully carved top and back, 24 3/4" scale, and fabulously playable neck.
    Attached Images Attached Images Vintage German Archtops-hoyer-x-9-lo-jpg 
    Last edited by Hammertone; 10-29-2020 at 01:45 AM.

  17. #166

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    Looks like somebody got a new Special, middle row far right.

  18. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by What now?
    Looks like somebody got a new Special, middle row far right.
    Someone's paying attention. That one followed me home, banged on the door and demanded to be let in. But another one is leaving the roost in a few days.

  19. #168
    Hello I am completely new to this, but I have already learned a lot from this forum.

    I would like to submit to you this Framus studio 5/51 (resonanz electric) that I would like to buy. I guess considering the price of these guitars it's not necessarily very high quality but what is sure is that it's vintage and looks in pretty good condition.

    Do you know which luthier could have built these guitars?
    Do you think that everything is original or have there been changes made or re-gluing?

    And in general if anyone has had the opportunity to play on this type of guitar, if he could testify to the qualities and defects of this model.

    Thank you for your advice and your knowledge.

    Vintage German Archtops-15-54-42-2887ddb8-42d2-11eb-817f-258bbb1f1cc2-jpg

    Vintage German Archtops-15-54-42-2887ddb8-42d2-11eb-817f-258bbb1f1cc2-jpg

    Vintage German Archtops-15-54-50-6fe0061a-42d2-11eb-b9ad-c94193f25419-jpg

    Vintage German Archtops-15-54-57-7ad9c701-42d2-11eb-b9ad-c94193f25419-jpg

    Vintage German Archtops-15-55-12-90851c98-42d2-11eb-ac52-57e0412e6010-jpg

    Vintage German Archtops-15-55-12-90851c98-42d2-11eb-ac52-57e0412e6010-jpg

    Vintage German Archtops-15-55-26-bd7a345b-42d2-11eb-9a3d-e9c475bd1e8f-jpg

    Vintage German Archtops-15-55-26-bd7a345b-42d2-11eb-9a3d-e9c475bd1e8f-jpg

  20. #169

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    That's an interesting looking instrument. The truly knowledgeable will be along presently.

  21. #170

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    ^ that's a cool framus...looks to be original...(sans the headstock framus logo)...framus built some nice guitars and basses...that high pickguard setup is a very framus touch...

    framus are usually very comfortable guitars to play....i always like them

    here's another



    cheers

  22. #171
    Thanks, it seems good to me too. But do you see the little scar at the base of the neck? I don't know if it's the original collage or something else?

  23. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonmagus1984
    Thanks, it seems good to me too. But do you see the little scar at the base of the neck? I don't know if it's the original collage or something else?
    Do you mean that slight crazing of the lacquer? That is completely unsurprising in wooden object of that age. i shouldn't worry about it.

  24. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonmagus1984
    Thanks, it seems good to me too. But do you see the little scar at the base of the neck? I don't know if it's the original collage or something else?
    i believe thats just the way framus built the neck joint...here's a pic of the neck removed....this guitar had some more serious damage, but you can still see the clear joint that is similar to the one in your pic




    cheers

  25. #174
    Thanks for your answer neatomic

  26. #175

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    Zeidler archtops are very responsive, with lively acoustic tone and great projection. Very light to hold and comfortable to play.


    Many here will agree that John R. Zeidler (1958 - 2002) was one of the finest American archtop-guitar makers, a master who believed that the instruments he crafted should be "every bit as beautiful as they sounded".

    So what about that episode, why would have been Zeidler's name and work, by a close shave, connected with vintage German archtops?
    Well, it had to do with the fate of Musima after the German reunification.

    The book Musima - Guitars for the Whole World, A Musical Giant from Markneukirchen and its History 1954 - 2003 is going into detail. It was well-researched and published (German/English) by the Musikinstrumenten-Museum Markneukirchen in 2020.
    In the 1980s, VEB Musikinstrumentenbau Markneukirchen (Musima) was an enterprise of superlative dimensions. For some years, Musima, which had about 1200 employees, was regarded as the largest manufacturer of musical instruments in Europe. Guitars, violins, cellos, recorders and numerous other products from Markneukirchen were exported to more than 70 countries wolrdwide.

    The book is not so much for guitar aficionados who are mainly interested in guitar models and their specifications, but more about the historical context, the background that, after all, had been determining what was going on at the Musima production line and on the work benches.
    Like so much German history-related stuff, the Musima story is complex and long-winding, though more realistic and enlightening than any blockbuster could impart.

    The text passages come from the recommended book. The inclined reader is asked to get an example in order to get his own overview and support the museum as well, which - like most museums in the moment - is cash-strapped:


    >> In the aftermath of this peaceful revolution [the collapse of the Socialist SED regime], the new authorities were faced with the question of how to deal with the state-owned companies (VEB), [...] the idea of forming a holding company - a type of "state holding company" comprising the entire national wealth - prevailed. This trust agency ("Treuhandanstalt") commenced its work on 1 July 1990. It had control over approximately 8,500 companies, one of which was Musima. Thus, practically overnight, the trust agency became the largest employer in the world and was responsible for four million employees. It privatised, restuctured and liquidated companies in a non-stop process. At times, companies were being sold to interested parties every few minutes. Almost 90 percent of these privatisations had been completed by the end of the Treuhand of 1992.

    "The Treuhand needed to reinvent itself constantly. The number of checklists and auditing requirements we were required to observe increased steadily", but we just ignored them - which was possible because there were no consequences. The employees at the trust agency had been given the guarantee that they would not need to fear prosecution for negligent conduct. The screening of investors often took place within a mere few hours. Things should be fast, fast, fast! This resulted in premature contracts with legal loopholes. Many purchase transactions contained no target criteria for preserving jobs or did not specify the investment commitments.

    On 1 May 1990, VEB Musikinstrumentenbau Markneukirchen was converted into Musikinstrumentenbau Musima GmbH. [Subsequently, all attempts under changing ownerships to revive the company, including a Management-Buy-Out, failed.
    The next step:] "Fender Musical Instruments Deutschland GmbH with headquarters in Düsseldorf, as a subsidiary of the Fender USA Corporation, rents the [Musima] production and administration buildings [...] as of 1 Januar 1997 [...] as well as all the production facilities, for a monthly rental of 65,000 marks. The rental contract is concluded for the period of five years, after which Fender will take over the buildings and facilities for a price of 7 million marks". In order to be able to fulfil this contract, Musima will cease production on 31 December, 1996. [The authors of the book were not able to discover why this plan did not come to fruition].

    As early as 1992, there were rumours and indications of improper business activities surrounding Musima. For example, the wood storage - the company's "treasure trove" - was allegedly plundered, and valuable tonewoods for violins sold on the black market. The insolvency administrator later also speaks of "an alleged wood dealer", who was said to have been commissioned to assess the value of the wood storage, but probably emptied it instead.

    [Several shareholders, CEOs and near-insolvencies later]: One person who was seriously interested in the deal and did not merely want to become a managing director was Douglas Baumoel, an American. He joined the Controlotron Company, which had been founded by his father. Over a period of forty years, this company had risen to become the world market leader in ultrasound flow management. Douglas Baumoel [a guitar player and the founder of Aspire Records, a jazz record label with extended sales via retail chains in Europe] revised the company's international sales and marketing strategy. It was Berthold Neidhardt, a longstanding sales expert in the USA who had awakened Baumoel's interest in Musima. Berthold "Bert" Neidhardt was an old hand in the musical instruments import and export business who had been familiar with Musima since its founding. As early as 1950, he had exported musical instruments from Hamburg, particularly to North America, including products made in Markneukirchen.

    In early December 1997, Baumoel returned for a week to Markneukirchen in order to gather detailed information. Subsequently, he was particularly impressed by the employees' expertise, which far transcended what he was familiar with in similar companies in the USA and Eastern Europe. His enthusiasm spread to three proven specialists in the field. John Zeidler, Bert Neidhardt and Mark Satzman agreed to work for him and for Musima if he needed them. Zeidler was to become the "director of product development".
    Baumoel assumed that he would require 2.85 million marks in order to be able to implement his plan. [...] he also presented concrete figures for the production side. In the next five years, sales could be expanded from 11,000 to 45,000 instruments. Baumoel was also surprised that the long history of producing guitars in Markneukirchen had never been honoured in any way, and particularly that there was no reference to C.F. Martin, who had learned the craft in Markneukirchen from his father. He also noted that the Musima advertising never mentioned the fact that "every employee at every stage of production is a master in his field".

    However, as it appears, Baumoel's commitment was not welcomed by everyone in Markneukirchen. He considered that he had been unfairly ousted. During his visit to Markneukirchen on 10 February 1998, he had been given a deadline of March 13, by which time he would have to procure the investment amount. However, this deadline was then brought forward to March 2. Furthermore, he had been openly threatened one evening by an unknown person in the bar of his hotel in Plauen who had told him that if he really wanted to move to Markneukirchen, things would not turn out well for him. He had in fact planned to "settle down in this wonderful corner of the world". In keeping with the threat was also the fact that documents he had submitted in relation to a bridging loan "had mysteriously disappeared". "I suppose that somebody had put pressure on the bank to make the papers disappear".

    Baumoel ultimately lost his patience. On 22 February 1998, he wrote an open letter, in which he stated, among other things "[...] unfortunately, I have the feeling that double standards are being applied when it comes to domestic and foreign investors, although my concept pays undivided attention to both the domestic and the foreign market. [...] Now, the deadlines are so short that it is impossible, despite all our efforts, to fulfil them in an orderly fashion and in good time [...]". <<


    And so the fate of Musima took its course. On 1 April 2003, the last Musima owner filed for insolvency, the former facilities derelicted.
    This chapter of the (ex-)socialists in Markneukirchen and the capitalist (West-) German Treuhandgesellschaft was not glorious at all, rather mean on both sides.
    Musima guitars, at least those from the 1950s to the 1970s, could win any contest in the value-for-money ratio, especially the solid woods Roger German carve clones, and the laminated archtops could earn the title "thunk champion". Yet, Musima and John Zeidler, I guess, would have been glorious partners in the field of archtop guitar making.

    Vintage German Archtops-dscf5290b-jpg
    Last edited by Ol' Fret; 02-17-2021 at 08:01 PM.