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  1. #201
    To whom it may concern. I cannot see how to post on the site. I'm looking for information on a Johannes Mönnig Archtop Guitar. Thanks Guy

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  3. #202

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    Any photos to post here or links to photos? Mönnig is an established orchestral stringed instrument-making family going back hundreds of years, but I've never heard of a 20th century Mönnig archtop guitar.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 04-04-2022 at 11:07 PM.

  4. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guys guitars
    To whom it may concern. I cannot see how to post on the site. I'm looking for information on a Johannes Mönnig Archtop Guitar. Thanks Guy

  5. #204

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    There's a site called german-vintage-guitar.com which has a wealth of information on those instruments (and sells them).

  6. #205
    This is my first post. I discovered this thread, read the entire six years worth of posts, learned more than I had hoped for, and joined the Forum for the express purpose of posting this.

    In this thread there is information on vintage archtop guitars from the DDR, thinline guitars, guitars built by violin builders, Simeto pickups, and even a mention of the elusive Willy Herold. I thought we should bring all these themes together and look at vintage East German thinline violin guitars with Simeto pickups built by Willy Herold.

    Here are a couple examples:

    Vintage German Archtops-full-front-jpg

    Vintage German Archtops-tobacco-burst-front-jpg

    I am interested in learing more about Herr Herold. I have read that he was born in 1909 and died in 1977. Further, he worked in Klingenthal and his mentor was Reinhold Pöhland. It is written that he was registered as an independent luthier from 1956 through 1960, but another source says he built for MIGMA during that period. There seems to be agreement that starting in 1961 he worked for the Sinfonia collective.

    Both of the above guitars bear his stamp inside:

    Vintage German Archtops-tobacco-burst-name-stamp-jpg

    Vintage German Archtops-name-stamp-jpg

    Does this suggest that they would have been built before Willy went to Sinfonia? I know the Hofner 500/1 Violin Bass was introduced to the public in 1956, so the timing would be right for this style of instrument.

    I'm basically looking for any information and insight available on Willy Herold and his instruments, and this site looks like the place to find it. Thanks in advance!

    Don

  7. #206

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    Hi Don,

    I think you already gathered the scarce info available about Mr. Herold.

    Independent luthier and MIGMA is not a contradiction as the MIGMA was - and still is! - a cooperative for the independent music instrument makers of Markneukirchen.
    See here: Home | Migma e.G.

    The semi-acoustic guitars in question here were built after 1964 as this Simeto pick up model was introduced then.
    See here: Schlaggitarren.de – Hersteller

    So: if the date of 1960 for being forced into "Sonfonia" is correct, it´s a bit strange to find these stamped instruments of good, all solid construction. The archtops he built for Sinfonia were quite cheap, all laminated instruments. Random sample:

    Vintage German Archtops-sinfonia-01-jpg

    Whereas the archtops he built under his own name have superbly crafted, all solid bodies which are among the best sounding instruments of this era. The necks are a bit so an so...
    Sample here:

    Vintage German Archtops-herold_03_01-jpg

    This model was distributed by "Musikhaus Klingenthal", their 1964/65 price list says: 512.- DM; by far their most expensive guitar they offered! (for comparosin: a good quality, mastergrade classical guitar was only 139.- DM)

    Again: I do not know how this goes together with that 1960 Sinfonia thing. This guitar (as in the catalogue) is not only stamped inside but has the name Herold inlaid on the scratch-plate:

    Vintage German Archtops-herold_03_04-jpg

  8. #207
    Thanks for the insights, alteklampfe. I have wondered what, if any, connection there is between Willy Herold and Meinel & Herold Musikinstrumente Klingenthal. That company was formed in 1893, and perhaps Willy is part of the same family. I notice that Willy used the same detail at the base of the headstock as is seen on a 1960 Meinel & Herold Star.
    Vintage German Archtops-tuners-jpgVintage German Archtops-untitled-jpg

    Of course, he may not have been carving his own necks.

    Don

  9. #208

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  10. #209

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    May as well bump this fun thread up, given some recent chat about Teutonic Terrors.

  11. #210
    My Migma violin guitar is probably not a Willy Herold made one (no stamp inside, very different headstock) bit none the less a very very cool and great sounding and playing instrument.

    Note that the cracks are not in the wood but finish, and the tailpiece is non original. The pickguard was shot and shape remade by the previous owner.
    Attached Images Attached Images Vintage German Archtops-received_551135380265728-jpeg Vintage German Archtops-received_2154872734711523-jpeg 

  12. #211

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    Another contender, IMHO, for great prewar L-5s or D'Angelicos.
    16.5" wide, parallel bracing, 630mm scale, nut 43.8mm (note: no zero fret - a drawback for me), surprisingly modern and comfortable neck profile, nice amber finish. All original.

    Must have been made in Schönbach after WWII and sold through the long pre-existing Markneukirchen (then GDR) retailer network.
    Superb craftsmanship by a master luthier: the wood selection, the gradation of the top, one of the finest tonebars (wood and carving) I've come across.
    A sound quality to match the craftsmanship: clear-voiced, but not uninflected. Balanced through the registers, but yet loud - it can be pushed without maxing out or getting dull and undefined. A result that could be expected when studying that carving pattern.


    Vintage German Archtops-dscf6981b-jpg

    Vintage German Archtops-dscf6983c-jpg

    Vintage German Archtops-dscf6988b-jpg
    Last edited by Ol' Fret; 10-24-2023 at 08:29 AM.

  13. #212

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    So, while I could possibly afford to grab this if I move something I'm not playing, I really have no idea about it other than I find it to be incredibly beautiful, just a complete work of art. Can anyone give me an idea of say, the neck carve on this guitar? I'm not particularly worried about the lack of truss rod, but if it has a steep shouldered bat sized neck it would be a non-starter. Seller states it is 'probably' an early 50's Anton Neubauer.

    Page is here: The justjazzguitars Collection


  14. #213

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    Regarding the post above: "Another contender, IMHO, for great prewar L-5s or D'Angelicos...."

    Some familiar looking specs: the shape of the head, the body, the scratch plate and: no Zero-Fret. Yep - from a quite famous maker.

    Looking at those features and at the headstock deco: this might have been made in the late 30ies.


    Vintage German Archtops-goldklang_07-jpg

    Only thing that does not fit an early dating is the tailpiece.
    @ Ol´fret: does it appear to be the original one?

    Grüße

  15. #214

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    Hi all, sorry to gatecrash & I can't help with the Goldklang. As I'm new to the forum, I have to say this has been a fantastic educational thread.
    I just recently developed an enthusiasm for proper archtops, that is, ones with carved solid spruce tops etc. and I feel a dangerous urge to own one :-)
    I have a C1960 Hofner 500/10
    President 6 string bass & a Gibson 330 but these are of course laminated, really "just plywood".
    I know something about Hofners & I'm faintly aware of others such as Hoyer, but really I know nothing, so it has been fascinating to read here something about the history of German guitars, processes of timber sourcing, the background of Bohemian makers etc. Many thanks to all who have contributed.

  16. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim777
    So, while I could possibly afford to grab this if I move something I'm not playing, I really have no idea about it other than I find it to be incredibly beautiful, just a complete work of art. Can anyone give me an idea of say, the neck carve on this guitar? I'm not particularly worried about the lack of truss rod, but if it has a steep shouldered bat sized neck it would be a non-starter. Seller states it is 'probably' an early 50's Anton Neubauer.

    Page is here: The justjazzguitars Collection
    The guitar is a Neubauer, and being made sometime in the 50's seems likely. I also thought it was quite beautiful, and have had several Neubauers before that were nice-sounding guitars acoustically. The neck was a fairly ample C shape, big but not unwieldy. I owned this guitar before it was bought by the British collector, and at least at that time it had neck problems (side-to-side slant) that are the reason I no longer own it. My advice would be to play it before making a decision to buy, regardless of how enticing it looks.

  17. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by alteklampfe
    Regarding the post above: "Another contender, IMHO, for great prewar L-5s or D'Angelicos...."

    Some familiar looking specs: the shape of the head, the body, the scratch plate and: no Zero-Fret. Yep - from a quite famous maker.

    Looking at those features and at the headstock deco: this might have been made in the late 30ies.


    Vintage German Archtops-goldklang_07-jpg

    Only thing that does not fit an early dating is the tailpiece.
    @ Ol´fret: does it appear to be the original one?

    Grüße

    Hi alteklampfe, thanks for chiming in!
    That's the thing with fame. Stradivari instruments took quite a long time to achieve fame; Guarneris even more so.
    That guitar bears a "G" in the label, so it must be valuable in the first place...
    But, seriously, it's clear that it was made by Franz Hirsch who worked in Schönbach until 1948 or so (I start to forget exact annual figures). I've always been wondering how many archtop guitars were made at Hirsch's small workshop before the war: all fully cello-carved prewar 16.5" Roger guitars; IMO, really fine instruments comparable to any prewar L-5. According to the Roger serial number list 339 guitars were made between 1936 and the outbrake of WWII in September 1939; that had also been the time when young Roger Rossmeisl started to learn with Franz Hirsch. Although Hirsch had some congenial staff (both Neubauers and Gustav Glassl) - that's a crazy high number.

    Then, we know that Hirsch made some extra guitars, labeled by himself or for other brands or without label at all. This happened after WWII, but also right before the war! There are the late "Majestic Aristocrats" distributed Schuster, and there's that "Hirsch 1939" listed in "The Bohemian Jazz Guitars Tribute" book. That "1939" body shape corresponds to the "Goldklang" above.

    Yep, that Goldklang's tailpiece of Frequensator style is hardly ever found on prewar German guitars. It looked quite innocent on the Goldklang, must have been put there a very long time ago. Now that I've checked, I'm standing corrected: the original tailpiece must have had the smaller Schönbach anchor plate, probably the same simple triangle bar Schönbach type like on the "Hirsch 1939". In German areas, the dark 1930s were still starkly coined by the Great Depression - there were several reasons why people choose to join the rabble-rousers.

    Vintage German Archtops-dscf7145b-jpg

    So this Goldklang made by Hirsch should definitely be a prewar instrument. Great guitar, especially that thin, transparent "burning-amber" finish without cracks and other signs of inferior finish work - I wish the present guitar makers could still learn a bit from Hirsch.

    After 1945 Hirsch was more or less forced to work for the national Czech enterprise, later to become "Cremona", under collective management. Interestingly, he was still able to build a few of the new Roger Super Spezial models for Wenzel in the West. However, he was certainly no longer able to individually meet Wenzel's increased demand for guitars next to his work for the state-owned company in the beginning of the guitar boom era after the war. Wenzel took different paths. After the expulsion in 1948 or so, Hirsch, at retirement age, again manufactured guitars of all sorts in Tennenlohe and Bubenreuth, similar to his prewar Roger-style or according to his own taste, but only in small quantities. During his lifetime he had trained enough capable students who carried on his legacy.

    HR is still working around the Roger/Hirsch serial number list. Some new insights, some new puzzle pieces including some extensive scientific efforts; still some new, actual errors - and even more rising questions.
    Fascinating stuff, just one example: my Roger Luxus #648 was very recently shifted to be the very first guitar launched by the Roger Rossmeisl workshop after Wenzel had been arrested. Btw., it reflects the skillful master hands of Olga Adelmann.
    Fortunately, the guitar itself is completely unimpressed; it sounds the same, no matter whether it was the very last one made in Wenzel's Markneukirchen workshop - at least the main parts - or it was the very first Roger guitar ever made completely in Berlin.

  18. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flowboy
    Hi all, sorry to gatecrash & I can't help with the Goldklang. As I'm new to the forum, I have to say this has been a fantastic educational thread.
    I just recently developed an enthusiasm for proper archtops, that is, ones with carved solid spruce tops etc. and I feel a dangerous urge to own one :-)
    I have a C1960 Hofner 500/10
    President 6 string bass & a Gibson 330 but these are of course laminated, really "just plywood".
    I know something about Hofners & I'm faintly aware of others such as Hoyer, but really I know nothing, so it has been fascinating to read here something about the history of German guitars, processes of timber sourcing, the background of Bohemian makers etc. Many thanks to all who have contributed.
    Welcome, Flowboy!
    Actually, the vintage archtop guitar world is bigger than some might think. Good stories to find everywhere.

    Some "just plywood" guitars can be great, especially if the price reflects the plywood feature.
    Höfner is a bit out of my radar, though, recently, I tested an early "Jazzica". Nice 16" guitar, laminated spruce top, laminated back & sides, really great neck shape due to the work of Thomas Stuhlein (better than many newer slim necks, though a bit too little flesh on the shoulders for my taste). The manufacture quality is good, though the finish work wasn't overwhelming ... too thick layers, resulting in a couple of pronounced longitudinal finish cracks. The rest of the guitar, a player's guitar, looked relatively well-cared for. The acoustic sound is on the better side compared to other laminated guitars; amplified it's good and quite versatile /shapable.
    Negative points on the Jazzica: the neck-body-junction at the 16th fret is not for everyone, bringing the lower frets on the large-scale fretboard further away from your left hand, and the pickup is closer to the bridge due to the number of 24 frets. The wedge-shape of the body (about 11cm at the tail and 6cm at the neck) looks classy and could be great, but they choose to chamfer the sides exclusively at the side of the back, which is wrong, IMHO. Cellos (or violins) often have a small wedge shape as well; cellos on average about 5mm, with large individual differences, of course. But all these instruments show the wedge shape at the top side, for some reason, general stiffness and the position of the neck - too off topic to discuss in this forum.

    Some better Arnold Hoyer guitars might be looking strange for Anglo-Saxon eyes, but they hold up very well regarding tone and playability. Twenty years ago I claimed that the A. Hoyer "Solist" models could be among the best 16.5" fully carved guitars ever; the Hopf (made by Glassl) corresponding guitars differ more individually, especially neck-wise, but the best ones even top the Hoyers. Since then, there have been many, who have enthusiastically agreed. The reason why these guitars are underrated: they have never had any well-known endorsers - the German pro players from the 1950/60s using them are almost unknown to this day. Since Roger, Lang and other guitars are slowly gaining interest, we are beginning to learn bit by bit about their former players too.


    Apropos endorsing: for quite some time I've been thinking about the fact why Jazz essentially is the music of large cities.
    We know in Germany about the Jazz scene developing in Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Frankfurt and Leipzig. But what happened in the province? No Jazz? Wrong! Recently, I acquired the battered carved guitar and pictured gig booklet from a long-gone guitar player from a trio band playing at the rural inns, the butcher's shops, community and small dance halls in 1951 to 1953.
    Man, these guys played like crazy - after surviving the war, these folks lived and played and danced much more intensely than the generations after them. If I get some time on my hands, if ... I could post some pics here.

  19. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    Welcome, Flowboy!
    Actually, the vintage archtop guitar world is bigger than some might think. Good stories to find everywhere.

    Some "just plywood" guitars can be great, especially if the price reflects the plywood feature.
    Höfner is a bit out of my radar, though, recently, I tested an early "Jazzica". Nice 16" guitar, laminated spruce top, laminated back & sides, really great neck shape due to the work of Thomas Stuhlein (better than many newer slim necks, though a bit too little flesh on the shoulders for my taste). The manufacture quality is good, though the finish work wasn't overwhelming ... too thick layers, resulting in a couple of pronounced longitudinal finish cracks. The rest of the guitar, a player's guitar, looked relatively well-cared for. The acoustic sound is on the better side compared to other laminated guitars; amplified it's good and quite versatile /shapable.
    Negative points on the Jazzica: the neck-body-junction at the 16th fret is not for everyone, bringing the lower frets on the large-scale fretboard further away from your left hand, and the pickup is closer to the bridge due to the number of 24 frets. The wedge-shape of the body (about 11cm at the tail and 6cm at the neck) looks classy and could be great, but they choose to chamfer the sides exclusively at the side of the back, which is wrong, IMHO. Cellos (or violins) often have a small wedge shape as well; cellos on average about 5mm, with large individual differences, of course. But all these instruments show the wedge shape at the top side, for some reason, general stiffness and the position of the neck - too off topic to discuss in this forum.

    Some better Arnold Hoyer guitars might be looking strange for Anglo-Saxon eyes, but they hold up very well regarding tone and playability. Twenty years ago I claimed that the A. Hoyer "Solist" models could be among the best 16.5" fully carved guitars ever; the Hopf (made by Glassl) corresponding guitars differ more individually, especially neck-wise, but the best ones even top the Hoyers. Since then, there have been many, who have enthusiastically agreed. The reason why these guitars are underrated: they have never had any well-known endorsers - the German pro players from the 1950/60s using them are almost unknown to this day. Since Roger, Lang and other guitars are slowly gaining interest, we are beginning to learn bit by bit about their former players too.


    Apropos endorsing: for quite some time I've been thinking about the fact why Jazz essentially is the music of large cities.
    We know in Germany about the Jazz scene developing in Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Frankfurt and Leipzig. But what happened in the province? No Jazz? Wrong! Recently, I acquired the battered carved guitar and pictured gig booklet from a long-gone guitar player from a trio band playing at the rural inns, the butcher's shops, community and small dance halls in 1951 to 1953.
    Man, these guys played like crazy - after surviving the war, these folks lived and played and danced much more intensely than the generations after them. If I get some time on my hands, if ... I could post some pics here.
    Reading this reminded me that the father of a former colleague (from my rock'n'roll days as a lighting tech in another life) played guitar at a then famous bar called Gisela in Munich-Schwabing. There is an image of him playing an archtop on the still existing website. Later for a while he was the producer for Krautrock bands like Ammon Düül 1 or world music pioneers Embryo. I never met him in person, but I worked often with his son who was local production manager for many concerts I worked at and who told me some stories. Both our fathers were WWII veterans born in 1926.

  20. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bop Head
    Reading this reminded me that the father of a former colleague (from my rock'n'roll days as a lighting tech in another life) played guitar at a then famous bar called Gisela in Munich-Schwabing. There is an image of him playing an archtop on the still existing website. Later for a while he was the producer for Krautrock bands like Ammon Düül 1 or world music pioneers Embryo. I never met him in person, but I worked often with his son who was local production manager for many concerts I worked at and who told me some stories. Both our fathers were WWII veterans born in 1926.

    Thanks for sharing these links, and - Bang! - one more former player of a big Lang Super! And that's Joe Kienemann on piano!
    Munich had some great periods for smaller and bigger names in all art forms, from c. 1890 to right before WWI (much more than Berlin had then), and again from the 1950s to the 1970s. So many bars and subcultural venues, minor arts, great jazz names everywhere.
    That's long gone now, the rents are hardly affordable anymore for artists and mere mortals. Just ask Thomas from the Jazzbar Vogler about that feeling of to be or not to be for so long time. Now there's only the established Jazzclub Unterfahrt (daily program - I guess I must have experienced about 1,000 concerts as an active member), and maybe a handful of other minor venues for jazz, at least now and then.

  21. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    Thanks for sharing these links, and - Bang! - one more former player of a big Lang Super! And that's Joe Kienemann on piano!
    Munich had some great periods for smaller and bigger names in all art forms, from c. 1890 to right before WWI (much more than Berlin had then), and again from the 1950s to the 1970s. So many bars and subcultural venues, minor arts, great jazz names everywhere.
    That's long gone now, the rents are hardly affordable anymore for artists and mere mortals. Just ask Thomas from the Jazzbar Vogler about that feeling of to be or not to be for so long time. Now there's only the established Jazzclub Unterfahrt (daily program - I guess I must have experienced about 1,000 concerts as an active member), and maybe a handful of other minor venues for jazz, at least now and then.
    I have seen Joe Kienemann mentioned as well. I know him as radio host of the jazz programs of Bavarian public radio but AFAIK he is retired since several years. Yes, long gone are those days before my time when Munich was one of the jazz capitals of Europe. A friend of mine who plays jazz now after a career as a world class classical guitarist (look for "José Salpietro, Aires Cubanos, Guitarra" on YouTube) studied with Mal Waldron as a teenager for a while during the time the latter was living in Munich. But even I myself, born 1973, have seen many places go in the last 20 years (not only jazz -- rock, hiphop, reggae, blues, cafés that had open stages once a week etc.; there was a rumour recently that Gloria wants to give up the Hide Out 2 just around the corner from me, Munich's last blues place after the Alfonso's closed).

    Meanwhile I dare to play at the Vogler's Tuesday sessions that were unfortunately canceled for last and next Tuesday. The athmosphere is more welcoming there than at Unterfahrt on Sundays. Manouche fans can go to Diba café on Wednesdays and recently I discovered the Blue Monday session at Rheinpfalz. (Peter Tuscher does the booking there AFAIK.)

    To get back to the original topic of this thread: A collector of obscure string instruments is Titus Waldenfels. Unfortunately the Guitar Gallery from his old website is not working in the Internet Archive other than the thumbnails.

  22. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    ...Höfner is a bit out of my radar, though, recently, I tested an early "Jazzica". Nice 16" guitar, laminated spruce top, laminated back & sides, really great neck shape due to the work of Thomas Stuhlein (better than many newer slim necks, though a bit too little flesh on the shoulders for my taste). The manufacture quality is good, though the finish work wasn't overwhelming ... too thick layers, resulting in a couple of pronounced longitudinal finish cracks. The rest of the guitar, a player's guitar, looked relatively well-cared for. The acoustic sound is on the better side compared to other laminated guitars; amplified it's good and quite versatile /shapable.
    Serial #? The Jazzica Custom acquired a solid spruce carved top @2000. Thomas did not start signing the labels until a few years later.
    Höfner did violin varnish finishes in-house on its guitars, but outsourced its gloss finishes until recently. There was a period (up to the early 2000s) when there was an issue with clear gloss catalyzed polyester finishes that were too thick. Many of the archtop guitars made during this period now show significant finish cracks, usually on the top plates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    ...Negative points on the Jazzica: the neck-body-junction at the 16th fret is not for everyone, bringing the lower frets on the large-scale fretboard further away from your left hand, and the pickup is closer to the bridge due to the number of 24 frets....
    The pickup is a bit closer to the bridge. Does that matter? - not so much, IMO. The whole lower frets further away from your left hand thing is simply a non-starter. The nut-to-butt distance on a typical 24 3/4" scale Gibson archtop (mostly 16" wide) is @33 1/2". The nut to butt distance on the 25 1/4" scale Höfner Jazzica/New President archtop is @34 7/8". The nut-to-butt distance on a typical 25 1/2" scale Gibson archtop (mostly 17" wide) is @35 1/8". Means nothing - no one complains about the extra reach required to play any of the many Gibson long-scale Gibson archtops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    The wedge-shape of the body (about 11cm at the tail and 6cm at the neck) looks classy and could be great, but they choose to chamfer the sides exclusively at the side of the back, which is wrong, IMHO. Cellos (or violins) often have a small wedge shape as well; cellos on average about 5mm, with large
    individual differences, of course. But all these instruments show the wedge shape at the top side, for some reason, general stiffness and the position of the neck - too off topic to discuss in this forum...
    Not sure I understand what this says. Please rewrite this.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 02-20-2024 at 06:39 PM.

  23. #222

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    Apologies for having diverted this thread somewhat!
    A few points: re. the "wedge" description, a picture paints a thousand words :-) re. gloss catalysed polyester, that seems like an early 60's solid body Hagstrom I have, a heavy finish that is not at all easily repairable or reproducable. I much prefer light satin matt on acoustics over heavy gloss. I think the current phrase de jour is "open pore".

    Re 16th fret at body, I have long arms so no problem I do sometimes notice having to change posture a little to adapt to how a guitar sits (or hangs) & some guitars can be neck heavy which is a little strange at first.

    I assume the laminated spruce of the Jazzica is a cross grained laminate / plywood style. I have never played a big jazz archtop, beyond my Hofner plywood bass (that does have a good electric tone but is no acoustic) & am very experienced re. cheap laminated folk guitars but I do know that solid spruce or cedar tops sound a lot better.

    I see there is a "new Gibson Archtop with a patent pressed or moulded special spruce top they call Solid Formed, that is intriguing but I'm not yet looking for "the dream guitar" (if I buy anything at all), just a good quality players tool, hence my interest in the possibilities in old German guitars. I really need to try some, see if I like, can adapt etc. Maybe acoustic but one pickup type most likely.
    I'm not fully convinced I really need another guitar & my wife will no doubt raise her eyebrows...

    The loss of clubs & music bars has been pretty drastic here in the UK (Covid, high city rents etc). I am very fortunate to have a music cafe a very short walk away, which has jazz events (& a great room for it). I suspect it may be subsidised by it's enthusiast owners / syndicate.

  24. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flowboy
    ...I assume the laminated spruce of the Jazzica is a cross grained laminate / plywood style. I have never played a big jazz archtop, beyond my Hofner plywood bass (that does have a good electric tone but is no acoustic) & am very experienced re. cheap laminated folk guitars but I do know that solid spruce or cedar tops sound a lot better. ...
    Jazzica Customs have solid, carved spruce tops.

  25. #224

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    << Serial #? The Jazzica Custom acquired a solid spruce carved top @2000. Thomas did not start signing the labels until a few years later.
    Höfner did violin varnish finishes in-house on its guitars, but outsourced its gloss finishes until recently. These was a period (early 2000s) when there was an issue with clear gloss catalyzed polyester finishes that were too thick. Many of the archtop guitars made during this period now show significant finish cracks, usually on the top plates. >>



    The serial # starts with a 3, so the guitar was probably made in 1993. As I mentioned I'm far away from being a Höfner guitar expert (I even don't like to become one anytime soon ... and how I detest the inflationary term expert), but, in my simple-minded Höfner understanding, the Jazzicas were launched around 1989, all these early models came with laminated spruce tops, developed later into the Jazzica Special and then the Jazzica Custom around 2000.
    This 1993 guitar shows - besides the serial # - just "Jazzica" on the label, no signature, no "Special", though it has an (original) ebony fretboard that were the standard on the Specials and Customs. Cross-bracing, no linings at all! - I understand that they turned to conventional kerfed linings later on. I've only seen one archtop guitar without lining so far: an early, cheap Japanese model.


    Violin varnish on guitars?
    I haven't come across any true violin varnish on an archtop guitar worthy of that name during the last 5 decades. They may market and sell it as violin varnish, but even when it's one of these cheap alcohol-based shellac finishs, it has not much to do with true varnish. A real French polish is an art of intense handcraft and much too expensive for offering on low- or mid-prized, even on many top-priced archtop guitars. Also, the ground for the finish (if they care at all) is completely different.
    For the bigger part of violin makers a violin varnish is an oil varnish, which is even more elaborate to create than French polish; there's a reason why so many violin master makers make their own oil varnish and keep the recipe for themselves. Real oil varnishs are visually overwhelming; if you have ever watched one, you'll never forget. And they are durable for centuries, if not badly mistreated.
    I see the term violin varnish on archtop guitars as an economical attempt to copy the appearance of true varnish - I'd agree though with the term mock or pseudo violin varnish.

    Here some pics of the 1993 Jazzica (once again, a laminated top). You see the cracks in the finish (the wood laminations are intact) in areas 1. where the top moves the most, 2. at the pointed upper ending of the slash soundhole, around the neck block; all areas with higher stress levels, so this is hardly a damage caused
    by abusing or extremely cold weather conditions etc.. The reason is the using of hard, unflexible finish - and unthoughtfully shaped or unreinforced stress points like on the soundholes.
    Attached Images Attached Images Vintage German Archtops-dscf7150a-jpg Vintage German Archtops-dscf7151a-jpg Vintage German Archtops-dscf7150-jpg Vintage German Archtops-dscf7149a-jpg 

  26. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone


    The pickup is a bit closer to the bridge. Does that matter? - not so much, IMO. The whole lower frets further away from your left hand thing is simply a non-starter. The nut-to-butt distance on a typical 24 3/4" scale Gibson archtop (mostly 16" wide) is @33 1/2". The nut to butt distance on the 25 1/4" scale Höfner Jazzica/New President archtop is @34 7/8". The nut-to-butt distance on a typical 25 1/2" scale Gibson archtop (mostly 17" wide) is @35 1/8". Means nothing - no one complains about the extra reach required to play any of the many Gibson long-scale Gibson archtops.


    Sure it does matter! Some see guitars as simple wooden boxes with a neck and strings - which is correct to some degree - but then the most simple things can be the most complicated ones.

    It's inappropriate to measure the nut-to-butt distance on guitars as far as a good or the best handling is concerned. This way a teardrop-shaped body or double-teardrop-shape should be unplayable for humans. It's a function of body size and contour (like where to place the guitar waist), scale length, number of frets, individual preferings, etc.
    The most important figure for this though is the nut to end-of-fretboard distance. Why? If you watch most jazz guitar players, they play with the pick or the fingers of the right hand above the area of the neck pickup. Sure, there are slight variations, sometimes a little bit more towards the bridge, for a more brash tone, or over the end of the fretboard for a mellower and more gentle tone. Generally though, you rest your right arm on that particular left lower bout and, at least on hollow-body archtop-guitars, this relatively fixed position will "force" you to play above the neck pickup for the most time, i. e., near the end of the fretboard. Depending on whether you use a small lipstick pickup, one of the smaller single-coils like a DeArmond, or a quite wide Humbucker design, that comfortable picking area will vary bit, but not much - not more than 10mm. The pickup size is the reason why we can only take the nut or zero-fret to end-of fretboard, i. e. the functional fretboard length, as the ultimate measure for comfort.
    Someone will say now that it's different on Manouche guitars. Yes, it is, those guitars' shape and special construction "force" you to put your right hand more towards the bridge for that typical Manouche sound.

    Personally, I have no problems to play a Tele, a Gibson L-5WM, a Lang SDL, a Triggs Stromberg 400 copy or a bombshell big Wolfrum (early 1960s, lower bout 466mm, body length 540mm, sides 100mm, scale 640mm) and most other guitars, short or long scale.

    Below some data concerning "the comfort zone" or FBL I've measured on some guitars. These are all 17" or 17"+ guitars.
    S = scale length, BL = body length, FBL = functional fretboard length (all data in millimeter):

    - 1996 Gibson L-5 WM: S = 643, BL = 536, FBL = 455

    - Early 1960s Lang SDL: S = 630, BL = 549, FBL = 461

    - Triggs Stromberg 400: S = 646, BL = 550, FBL = 468

    - 1960's Wolfrum: S = 640, BL = 540, FBL = 450

    - 1993 Höfner Jazzica: S = 643, BL = 490, FBL = 490

    The very last figure is clearly out of the ordinary comfort zone; at least, the combination with that not so reasoned wedge shape, makes the Jazzica not very comfortable to play. It might be different with solid bodies, but here it's about archtop guitars. YMMV. Being a 16" guitar, the Jazzica should be, IMO, even more comfortable to play than the bigger boxes. It is not.


    Then there's another complaint concerning that Jazzica - and so many other archtops (well, newer Gibsons send their regards) - the binding edge. Call me a sissy, but it's sharp like a knife, cuts into the skin on your chest and into your right upper arm.
    All you careless guitar makers, please, care for smoothing / scraping your guitar body binding round, at least at the necessary area of the body contact, i. e. the left lower bout top- and back wise! That's not much work, and you'll create snuggly fitting babies and happy customers. Just think of what would happen if human babies had also knife edges ...


    I'll continue with a short scheme of what a (longitudinal) wedge shapes means in the world of archtop instruments. We all know that Linda Manzer, and some others, created different - crosswise - wedges.
    As I said above, I'm not willing to discuss such topics in a forum (sorry, it's simply too much time investment and often not fruitful!), just from person to person with the guitars on hand. Everyone has the freedom to inform and convince himself - or not - by learning from the old master makers or by own observation.
    Last edited by Ol' Fret; 02-20-2024 at 12:25 PM.