The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #101

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    I am not on a level where the difference between 1/10" spread over 25.5" matters. I'm not saying that it's insignificant. I'm saying that I'm not coordinated enough that changing the scale length will improve my performance.

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  3. #102

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    Martygrass,
    not many people are. Some guitars just won't cut it with a player with small hands, probably bad hand positioning and a tendency to play stretch chords.
    I tried playing the crazy E min 9 chord on my DA that Johnny uses in Wait Till You See Her on my DAngelico at a 24-3/4 scale. i can barely finger the chord and when I do I am in this crazy contorted position. Here is the chord. The tuning is drop D.

    7
    7
    7
    5
    2
    2

    Ive concluded that the only way I could play this (and not very comfortably) would be on a Birdland. Funny thing, same fingering, 2 frets up starting at 4th fret f#, is absolutely no problem for me on a 25-5/16 neck but it approaches difficult on my Tal at 25-1/2". The chord is played at the end of the song.
    It really gets to point where millimeters makes a difference.

    Joe D
    Last edited by Max405; 06-28-2016 at 07:46 AM.

  4. #103

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    Sooo..
    What would you guys do if you are set on a Gibson Johnny Smith. And you absolutely know that in order to get one, in mint ( I mean mint) condition is to pay $16,500 for it?
    Then sitting on your couch feeling sorry for yourself, to the point where your family has had it with you because you've been a living, breathing piss case all weekend - you get an Email from one of your buddies at 9:18 that has a link to a guitar that is essentially a brand new, never played, not a mark on it 1994 Heritage Johnny Smith in the rare and BEAUTIFUL hand rubbed brown color. And you can get it for $4200??
    What do you do?

  5. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
    Sooo..
    What would you guys do if you are set on a Gibson Johnny Smith. And you absolutely know that in order to get one, in mint ( I mean mint) condition is to pay $16,500 for it?
    Then sitting on your couch feeling sorry for yourself, to the point where your family has had it with you because you've been a living, breathing piss case all weekend - you get an Email from one of your buddies at 9:18 that has a link to a guitar that is essentially a brand new, never played, not a mark on it 1994 Heritage Johnny Smith in the rare and BEAUTIFUL hand rubbed brown color. And you can get it for $4200??
    What do you do?

    That's a no brainer. Call my shrink.

  6. #105

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    You kiss your family and tell them how much you love them.
    The guitar business, well follow your heart buddy...

    Big

  7. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
    Sooo..
    What would you guys do if you are set on a Gibson Johnny Smith. And you absolutely know that in order to get one, in mint ( I mean mint) condition is to pay $16,500 for it?
    Then sitting on your couch feeling sorry for yourself, to the point where your family has had it with you because you've been a living, breathing piss case all weekend - you get an Email from one of your buddies at 9:18 that has a link to a guitar that is essentially a brand new, never played, not a mark on it 1994 Heritage Johnny Smith in the rare and BEAUTIFUL hand rubbed brown color. And you can get it for $4200??
    What do you do?
    We await your NGD post with baited breath....

  8. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
    Sooo..
    What would you guys do if you are set on a Gibson Johnny Smith. And you absolutely know that in order to get one, in mint ( I mean mint) condition is to pay $16,500 for it?
    Then sitting on your couch feeling sorry for yourself, to the point where your family has had it with you because you've been a living, breathing piss case all weekend - you get an Email from one of your buddies at 9:18 that has a link to a guitar that is essentially a brand new, never played, not a mark on it 1994 Heritage Johnny Smith in the rare and BEAUTIFUL hand rubbed brown color. And you can get it for $4200??
    What do you do?
    I would let it go! It's not what you want. If I might ask, why must it be mint? Why can't it just be a great sounding and great playing smith at a price you can handle.

  9. #108

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    That great philosopher, Rick Nelson, said it best in his immortal Garden Party. "You can't please everyone, so you gotta please yourself."

    A Heritage Johnny Smith will not disappoint.





  10. #109

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    Before Joe gets pounced on, I'll point out a few things to provide perspective.

    Johnny Smith teamed up with JP Moats, Jim Duerloo, Marv Lamb, and Ren Wall at Heritage to redesign the Johnny Smith guitar and improve it. Johnny was very hands on, more so than many signature artists. He got what he wanted.

    The same craftsmen, minus Hutchins, built this model as did so at Gibson. Even Aaron Cowles did the tap tuning. JP Moats sourced the wood, as he did for decades at Gibson. No junior Heritage employees built these, at least until the final years of the model. Floyd Newton, probably the most experience archtop finisher at Gibson, put the finish on the HJS.

    Johnny was in Kalamazoo frequently as they worked on prototypes and then completed the early instruments, more involved than in his Gibson years.

    So the arguments against the HJS fall into a few areas. 1. The headstock. 2. The abalone. 3. Black hardware. 4. Rose inlay. 5. Finger tailpiece. Johnny was obviously okay with #1 and he specifically wanted #2-5.

    I, for one, am happy knowing Joe is happy. If someday he changes his mind, he'll be no worse than most of us and he'll get his money back. Where's the harm?

  11. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass
    That's a no brainer. Call my shrink.
    If we keep reading Joe's posts, we all might need to call your shrink.

  12. #111

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    Joe,
    Bottom line is a Gibson JS, LeGrand and L5 sound different - in my opinion- than a Heritage. I've had all of them and they are great in many ways. If your after the Gibson sound and pedigree than "Only a Gibson is good enough". I must admit I do miss my Heritage Johnny Smith - but love my Gibson's. I would certainly buy another HJS if the opportunity presented itself at the right price. It's a tough call and I wish you the best with your decision.

  13. #112

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    It's funny, me and Steve Longobardi were talking the other night. We noticed that most of the guitars that Johnny Smith used from the 60's on, had the finger tailpieces on them. His DA, even his own Gibson Johnny Smiths all had the finger tailpiece. Yet, his Gibson had an L5 tailpiece. Then when he cancelled his deal with Gibson, the HJS had the finger TP. Then Gibson put it on the LeGrand..
    Cool huh..
    JD

  14. #113

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    skiboyny,
    why do I want mint guitars? I don't know. I've been that way my whole adult life. I think it's because I came from nothing. Nothing. When I was 12, I worked at the Famous Amos cookie factory, cleaning out the machines of the broken cookies. The broken cookies was my pay. My family relied on that. My whole adolescent life I dreamed one day that I could change my fortunes and make something of myself so I could get stuff. And once I got stuff, I took care of it, like nothing else. To this day, you could eat off my garage floor. I'm a bit of a mental case, I know. But, my guitars need to be perfect.
    they can play well and sound nice and be perfect. So that's what I like.
    Joe D

  15. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
    skiboyny,
    why do I want mint guitars? I don't know. I've been that way my whole adult life. I think it's because I came from nothing. Nothing. When I was 12, I worked at the Famous Amos cookie factory, cleaning out the machines of the broken cookies. The broken cookies was my pay. My family relied on that. My whole adolescent life I dreamed one day that I could change my fortunes and make something of myself so I could get stuff. And once I got stuff, I took care of it, like nothing else. To this day, you could eat off my garage floor. I'm a bit of a mental case, I know. But, my guitars need to be perfect.
    they can play well and sound nice and be perfect. So that's what I like.
    Joe D
    Joe
    I'm not that way, I just come from "ordinary pretty good middle class" life. But oddly, I totally empathize with your position. I had a roommate in college who wasn't as poor as you, but who came from a family that always had to count every coin to make it month to month. The guy had a very small collection of clothes, which he cared for meticulously and he always looked well dressed. People thought he was rich, but I knew he just took extreme care of everything little thing he owned.

    He appreciated what he had.

    You do, too. This Herb Ellis I am enjoying... it reminds me of that roommate.

    So your desire for "mint" will complicate your search. Here's an idea: BUY the Heritage. If it doesn't fill the need, you'll likely sell it later and at least get your money back, maybe make a bit. In the mean time, if it does, then you're good, and not out a ton of money compared to the $16.5K

    Just my half-shekel thought.

  16. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Longobardi
    Joe,
    Bottom line is a Gibson JS, LeGrand and L5 sound different - in my opinion- than a Heritage. I've had all of them and they are great in many ways. If your after the Gibson sound and pedigree than "Only a Gibson is good enough". I must admit I do miss my Heritage Johnny Smith - but love my Gibson's. I would certainly buy another HJS if the opportunity presented itself at the right price. It's a tough call and I wish you the best with your decision.
    Gibson uses bigger boxes, which is a holdover from the acoustic days. So there can be a difference in sound. But I will assert that the L-5C sounds no more akin to the GJS than to the HJS or the Golden Eagle. There is no "Gibson sound", unless you are referring to the PAF, which long ago was touted as the Gibson sound.

    As far as pedigree goes, I can't agree there. Gibson has a different plant, different tools, different workers, different wood sourcing and different management since the days of the Kalamazoo GJSs.

    What I will easily concede that there is something good about the Gibson brand that took a century to build. It's something I feel in my blood. I don't discount that at all. But having grown up in Kalamazoo when Gibson left town and seeing how that move cost many of my neighbors their jobs and broke up real families, the Tennessee Gibson enterprise feels like just a corporation. The pedigree is legally there, but the goodwill has been tarnished.

    There, I've said my piece.

  17. #116

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    Marty,
    Your obviously pro Heritage to the fullest extent and I do appreciate your devotion and knowledge of the brand.
    But I do believe there is a unique - undeniable quality of sound associated with Gibson guitars as many of us can attest to.
    As for comparing people , timelines etc, etc, - both organizations have experienced changes and are still in business
    producing instruments that satisfy different tastes.
    So it all boils down to personal belief , opinion and what the overall consensus of the market indicates.
    Sorry to hear about the hardships of the Gibson move from Kalamazoo- I'm sure that left some bitter feelings.

  18. #117

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    Heritage, same great handmade American quality, less money.
    the Heritage will make me very happy.
    Guys I love this place. Thanks for sharing my experience with me. Thank you.
    MG, thanks for looking out for me and helping me snag a good one. When I get it, I'm gonna play the crap out of it.
    Joe D

  19. #118

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    Joe,
    Good luck and I'm looking forward to the NGD !

  20. #119

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    hoping it queches your JS thirst Joe!
    I'm still predicting you'll have to have a vintage Gibson JS someday and it'll probably come along when you're least prepared. that's been my experience anyway...

    now go watch the Bing Crosby Johnny Smith video scgim linked in the players section before the guitar gets there and there's no time left but to play. I watched the first tune and though kinda corny, Johnny plays great.

  21. #120

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    Joe, how many Gibson JS's have you actually played ? How are you so sure the neck profile is perfect for you ? The neck profiles varied from the 60's, 70's, & 80's. A 45 year old mint guitar....good luck. Huge bucks, and big risks. You better make sure their is a iron clad return policy in place before you plunk down $10k on a mint JS.
    Why not buy a dead mint brand new LeGrand and you will have a 72 hour no questions asked return policy with zero shipping risk. If you don't like it you send it back and get your $8.5k back add another couple grand and go mint JS searching. I can tell you the really great JS's are just not for sale. Tough love bro.....you are not seeing clearly IMO.
    Are you really willing to roll the dice on a guitar that might be a 10 grand turd. If you are dead set on a JS you better hop a jet and go play it for a hour first. Your Johnny Smith obsession is clouding your judgement.
    I am a huge Grant Green fan. He played a DAQNY. That was one of the main reasons I wanted one but I certainly didn't want GG's name on mine or his neck profile . JS's and LeGrands are one trick ponies and some sound really great and some just don't.
    I don't have a basement but you might be the one living in my tool shed eating Rice-a-Roni.
    Have you ever considered a earlier 2000's L4 with maple back and sides instead of the present day mahogany ?
    They have a brighter more focused tone, 24.75 and dirt cheap. Have Maudie Moore engrave JS on the tailpiece and the trussrod cover and save $6.5K to boot.

  22. #121

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    I like this one.
    see the finger tailpiece on the DA?

  23. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Joe, how many Gibson JS's have you actually played ? How are you so sure the neck profile is perfect for you ? The neck profiles varied from the 60's, 70's, & 80's. A 45 year old mint guitar....good luck. Huge bucks, and big risks. You better make sure their is a iron clad return policy in place before you plunk down $10k on a mint JS.
    Why not buy a dead mint brand new LeGrand and you will have a 72 hour no questions asked return policy with zero shipping risk. If you don't like it you send it back and get your $8.5k back add another couple grand and go mint JS searching. I can tell you the really great JS's are just not for sale. Tough love bro.....you are not seeing clearly IMO.
    Are you really willing to roll the dice on a guitar that might be a 10 grand turd. If you are dead set on a JS you better hop a jet and go play it for a hour first. Your Johnny Smith obsession is clouding your judgement.
    I am a huge Grant Green fan. He played a DAQNY. That was one of the main reasons I wanted one but I certainly didn't want GG's name on mine or his neck profile . JS's and LeGrands are one trick ponies and some sound really great and some just don't.
    I don't have a basement but you might be the one living in my tool shed eating Rice-a-Roni.
    Have you ever considered a earlier 2000's L4 with maple back and sides instead of the present day mahogany ?
    They have a brighter more focused tone, 24.75 and dirt cheap. Have Maudie Moore engrave JS on the tailpiece and he trussrod cover and save $6.5K to boot.
    Vin,
    take it easy bro. Who said I was buying a 10,000 GJS?
    Im not.
    Attached Images Attached Images Gibson LeGrand scale length-image-jpeg Gibson LeGrand scale length-image-jpeg 

  24. #123

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    Gorgeous Joe- hope it's the perfect fit.

  25. #124

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    Joe, Knowing your distaste for shallow necks, I am thinking that you will be happier with that Heritage JS than a Gibson JS.

    I am hoping the new HJS rocks your world.

    The DA2 is rocking mine. Thanks again Bro!

  26. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
    It's funny, me and Steve Longobardi were talking the other night. We noticed that most of the guitars that Johnny Smith used from the 60's on, had the finger tailpieces on them. His DA, even his own Gibson Johnny Smiths all had the finger tailpiece. Yet, his Gibson had an L5 tailpiece. Then when he cancelled his deal with Gibson, the HJS had the finger TP. Then Gibson put it on the LeGrand..
    Cool huh..
    JD
    The last models made from Gibson had the six finger tailpiece. You don't see many of them but they are out there.