The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    So Gibson sends TMZ pics of this gorgeous Tal Farlow and of course they send them to me with a price no one could refuse. Everyone knows I am a Guitaraholic so I buy it. It arrived yesterday.
    Needless to say it has one of the worst necks ever. The neck set was way off with a severe uplift from the 12th to 20th frets. The bridge is jacked up almost as high as it can go. The strings fret out past the 10th fret. The frets are pleked down to nothing. 3 dents in the back of the neck. The action is higher than a Sears and Roebuck flattop. This coming from the Crimson Custom shop. Now you know why I love/hate Gibson.

    Thank God I bought it from TMZ. They are a stand up music store. In their defense they just checked the headstock when they received it because it took Gibson 3 weeks to ship it and I was getting mad so they overnighted it to me the day they got it. Another turd from Gibson. I will say it was stunning to look at and cowboy chords sounded OK. Thanks Gibson.
    .

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  3. #2

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    Wow ... sorry to hear that ...

    I've had great luck so far,

    but if I manage to save up enough for another Gibson I am a little nervous about ordering new .... especially if I'm spending several thousand dollars



    If it comes in as bad as your Tal I'm sure Rainbow will fix it or send it back after I've looked it over

  4. #3

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    How the h can that happen???
    Last edited by Woody Sound; 06-02-2016 at 08:54 AM.

  5. #4

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    As a fellow GA I sympathize. "They" (the entire guitar production/distribution complex, from the forest to the sales floor) know we need this stuff, these beautiful. sensual, beguiling objects of desire and delight. They know, from experience, our tastes, our preferences, our predilections, our weaknesses, our wants; and ruthlessly exploit them. The stately maple - source not only of the most exquisitely delicious sugar known to man, but also the endless spectrum of figure from swirl to burl to curl and quilt, bubble and bird's eye and beyond - the maple, it calls to us. The mahogany, the rosewoods, ebonies, and others swell the sweet strains of the siren song filling our minds with the need - the need - for one more I swear just one more.
    It's not fair, I tell ya.

    And don't even get me started on sunbursts.


    Or amps.

  6. #5

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    Sorry to hear Vinny.

    When a Gibson is wrong it is infuriating. When a Gibson is right, nothing is better with the possible exception of a Harley-Davidson or a good woman.

  7. #6

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    Wow Vinny, just wow!

    I feel bad for the poor cowboy chord playing sap who doesn't know what separates a good guitar from a bad guitar. Really shocked that the Crimson guys would ship out such a turd.

    I know you had another problem with a Tal neck, could it be that their B team is working on these? I was just telling a friend of mine who has a new L5 on the way that he is pretty much guaranteed a flawless guitar, since it came from the Crimson shop. Maybe not so much.

    Will you be receiving a replacement Tal?

  8. #7

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    Vinny,

    Surely you have committed some grave, unconscionable sin against the guitar gods, eh? I just can't believe a reputable company would purposefully charge thousands upon thousands of dollars to a customer, and then give them some off-kilter, poorly constructed instrument.

    I have read these stories over and over since the mid-2000's.

    Are things really getting that bad? Is it really that hard to build a guitar to its proper specifications? Maybe the luthiers are hurried so much that they make little errors, and its become the new norm? Or is it that the experienced ones have moved on?

    Finally, who the heck is performing the quality control? Is there even a final quality control inspection? If so, I want to know the credentials of the person performing this inspection and would love to hear their reaction to the defects.

    You would think they would knock a little off the price and give a FULL disclosure?

    Or maybe, these are just exceptions and the internet is warping reality. I just don't know.

    Going back on my meds, now...

  9. #8

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    Sorry to hear that Vinny, I hope the matter is resolved satisfactorily for you.

    I do have a couple of questions though,

    Firstly, is production of Tal Farlow models really in such small numbers that Gibson sends pics of a single completed guitar to a dealer to gauge interest ?

    Secondly, would it be likely that the guitar in question is in fact a guitar that has already been returned to Gibson by a previous purchaser under warranty ?

    Maybe if you intend to return it, rather than claim on the warranty, you might decide to post the S/N here on the forum, as some of our sharp eyed members would be curious to see exactly what becomes of it.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan

    You would think they would knock a little off the price and give a FULL disclosure?

    The margin for dealers on high end guitars is very slim so they don't have room for discounts. They are going to lose the little they make in lost time dealing with Gibson to fix or replace.

  11. #10

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    In some cases the only mistake may have been that they used woods that were not properly dried. Vinnys Tal may have been not too bad when it left the factory. If the neck starts twisting afterwards, the Gibson QC doesn't even have a chance to see it. Just a thought. Blame it on TMZ to ship it to a good customer and piss him off with it.

  12. #11

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    There someone's name on an inspection card in the case, is that guy proud of what he let out?

    edit: if the bridge needed to be raised to compensate the badly set neck and overpleked to try fixing a tail raise, that had to be coming from the CS this way...
    Last edited by vinlander; 06-01-2016 at 06:56 PM.

  13. #12

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    Pictures would be interesting.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drifter
    In some cases the only mistake may have been that they used woods that were not properly dried. Vinnys Tal may have been not too bad when it left the factory. If the neck starts twisting afterwards, the Gibson QC doesn't even have a chance to see it. Just a thought. Blame it on TMZ to ship it to a good customer and piss him off with it.

    Yeah ... I have to wonder what the history is on this .... did it sit in a warehouse for a few months before a big box retailer finally examined it and then returned it to Gibson?

    Did it sit in a factory storage area for months and then Gibson tried to save it with a PLEK?


    Sounds like it should have gone back for a complete rebuild before Gibson let this one go ... or maybe they should have let an employ buy it cheap ...

    The times I've toured guitar factories including some of Gibson's there's usually a bin full of cut up guitars that failed the QC ...

    Hmmmm

  15. #14
    TMZ is great ! It is on the way back to them. They emailed a return label right away. It played great. Just don't go past the 9th fret. The looks were stunning. Just don't play jazz on it. Outcome to follow.
    Very sadly the big loser is always the music store. Gibson has always been a double edged sword. They either cut you or give you Victory.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    TMZ is great ! It is on the way back to them. They emailed a return label right away. It played great. Just don't go past the 9th fret. The looks were stunning. Just don't play jazz on it. Outcome to follow.
    Very sadly the big loser is always the music store. Gibson has always been a double edged sword. They either cut you or give you Victory.
    Vinny ,
    What a shame and I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience. It's very upsetting to learn of such inconsistency in Gibson product quality. I've purchased 2 new Gibson custom shop products the past year and they were both perfect. To have a guitar shipped with those neck issues likely means something happened along the way environmentally. I wonder when it was made and how long it's been for sale. In any case, they should have performed an inspection before release. Hopefully something good will come from this bad experience .
    Keep us posted.

  17. #16

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    Vinny,

    Sorry to read about the myriad issues with your new Tal. Sorry, but somehow not surprised.

    And people wonder why I have no interest in buying a new Gibson. Too much of a crapshoot for my taste.

  18. #17

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    Sorry to hear about this Vinny. This is disheartening. Gibson should be better than that. I was under the impression that the newer high end archtops tend to be very good. But apparently they still produce some turds :-( I am glad the TMZ was so good about it. Hopefully you can get another great Tal!

  19. #18

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    Bro, given your track record as a AAA rate customer, they should send you another one free of charge. If they count up the number of warranty cards you've filled out in the past ten years, they will realize what a special customer you are. Probably one of the top paying customers they've ever had.
    From the crappy finishing on neck bindings, to shrinking Walnut strips in the neck, to rattling tailpieces and built in fuzz boxes in the pickups it's about time they got their shit together.
    Sorry that happened to you bro.

  20. #19

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    Sorry to hear that Vinny. Good luck with locating a keeper !!

    Dennis

  21. #20

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    vinnyv1k, are you sure that this is not partly a transport damage?

    When i was receiving my Lee Ritenour Signature from TMZ earlier this year i was surprised how poorly protected the guitar was shipped. The Bridge had gotten moved quite off center leaving a faint mark on the top which looked like it got a hit during transport. However this mark is now hidden under the bridge base and the guitar is in fine condition so i did not mention it.

    All other guitars i had shipped so far came with an extra thick carton stuffed with foam between case and carton, bridge removed, strings loosened but not this one.
    Last edited by JazzNote; 06-01-2016 at 08:37 PM.

  22. #21

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    I'm all for putting the blame on Gibson if they send out a turd. But your dealer also deserves as much blame as Gibson.

    The dealer should have inspected the guitar before shipping it to you, and that inspection should have resulted in Return to Vendor instead of ship to customer. They should also pack their guitars well enough that no guitar is ever damaged in transit.

    If TMZ just checked the headstock and pushed it out the door, then they did a half assed job and screwed one of their best customers. Yeah, I'd be putting some blame on Gibson, but TMZ deserves an equal share. And there's no way that I'd be giving TMZ more business in the future.

    I hope they paid the return freight. Not having done a decent job of checking out the guitar I think they owe you at least that much.

  23. #22
    Sorry to hear about that. I was lucky enough to get a gently used 2013 L4CES from the Crimson Custom Shop but had an opportunity to play it for an hour before I pulled the trigger. I was very impressed with this newer Gibson. It is a sad state of affairs when a brand new, open box item like that has the problems you describe. For premium we all pay for a Gibson, they should understand we expect better.

  24. #23
    I can't put blame on TMZ. I bought the guitar and Gibson forgot to ship it. Weeks passed and I was upset with no guitar. TMZ was under the gun to get it to me quick. They even paid for overnight to me and back. Like me they trusted that a Crimson Custom shop guitar would be good. The fit, finish, and flamed maple was stunning. They probably saw how nice it looked and said wow sweet ship it. I would. Any guitar I ever bought from TMZ's store stock was stellar. This time it was a quick football handoff. Gibson to me. TMZ did apologize profusely and will make it all good. They admitted the beauty blinded them. They did play it and tuned it down a whole step but probably didn't play it up high on the neck.
    I was putting pressure on TMZ to deliver after Gibson forgot about shipping it.
    TMZ told me that their is a current 6-8 month wait for a TF. Funny they had one in stock. I think it was a return that Gibson tried to replek to fix and rolled the dice that maybe a cowboy chord player would buy it.

  25. #24

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    Why does anyone even bother with a new Gibson? Just buy one from the 90's for half the price and twice the guitar.

  26. #25

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    I find it amazing that companies that do hundreds of millions a year are willing to trash their reputation over a few thousand
    dollars of cost at manufacturing level. Just one post on a forum like this can cost a company a few hundred thousand dollars. I own and run a very, very small company and our policy is any mistake no matter how small we comp the full price.
    It's hard sometimes but it wins in the long game. Dear Gibson CEO, empower your employees to be great not meet quotas.
    Sorry, this struck a nerve, rant over.