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Yep, that's Gibson these days.....
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06-02-2016 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Drifter
How familiar are you with 90's Gibsons? They are pretty universally heralded as, really, really good years.
Compared to a brand new $$$$$$ instrument that is unplayable, it can't even compete with a $600 Eastman.
So you are right, you will get 4x the guitar.
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Another +1 for peerless. Absolutely ROCK SOLID neck. Probably the most stable neck I have, that and a Greco LPC...
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TMZ should check what they send out. Time is money and the customer shouldn't be paying to filter out defective product.
Short frets and dents in the back of the neck don't sound like shipping issues.
I gave up on CS Gibson's in 2006.
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I would also like to see a pic, but just because I love looking at Tals. Anyone around here who knows Vinny knows that it is so, because Vinny says it is so. Vinny is the E.F. Hutton of the Gibson world. Originally Posted by BigToe
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You are golden with me, Vinny. Right off the bat. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
But to heap on TMZ. Bubble-wrap? Bubble-wrap is not to be used for packing heavy dense objects like a 23-pound guitar in its hard-shell case because the damn thing compresses under weight unless it were six inches thick all round! I don't know what the object weight to thickness ratio of bubble-wrap should be. But 1" to 2" of bubble-wrap all round is not adequate. Too, in cold weather, the air in the bubble-wrap shrinks down to nothing. It becomes a flaccid plastic sheet up in the air or when the weather is cold. Bubble-wrap is false insurance and comfort.
Shippers should stop trusting bubble-wrap. Expanding polyurethane foam (Instapak Foam in Bag or Foam in Place https://sealedair.com/product-care/p...foam-packaging) is what we should pressure shippers to use. Who needs the hassle and pain of filing an insurance claim? And what about the hard work that goes into crafting a guitar? OK, Gibson sceptics are gonna chortle at this...crafting...hur, hur, hur.
I don't understand how any retailer who has worked so hard to get a sale fooks it up completely at the packing stage. 99% of shipping problems can averted at the packing stage.
Rant off.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-03-2016 at 03:04 AM.
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IMO Gibson's factory packing is inadequate also. All they put in the box is side and top card board stiffeners and that is it.
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Clearly someone at TMZ dropped the ball when they shipped out the guitar. However, I will bet a shiny nickel that at the end of the day Vinny is going to come out ahead and it ain't gonna be because Gibson is going to throw a bone. There is a short list or guitar stores that will take it in the shorts in order to make a valuable customer like Vinny happy. From my experience Sound Pure is another operation on that list.
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That is a pricele$$ statement! Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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Yes, Vinny is the customer and if he is happy with the how TMZ handled themselves, then that is all I need to know.
JD
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I've received countless 100 pound audio amplifiers surrounded by factory packaging utilizing that identical "instapak foam." Not once a delivery issue. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
What do audio shippers know that guitar shippers don't? I mean, an archtop guitar is equally as delicate an item to ship, yes?
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TMZ has already given me my options. A full refund or 4-6 months wait for anything from the Crimson shop. 2-3 months for one of those new 175's from Memphis which I am pondering because I love that new sunburst plus a $ difference refund or they have a VOS 175 in stock plus $ difference refund. I always deal with Garrett at TMZ and he has always been totally honest with me. In fact when I bought the formed top he check out the 3 he had and told me every detail on every one. He told me about every little flaw and which one played and sounded the best. Every guitar I got from the TMZ store itself was stellar. Not to mention that awesome new blonde Super 4 I got for only $7649.00.
TMZ, Dave's, Sound Pure, Rainbow, all seem to be stand up music stores. I try and see both sides of the coin.
Even Fender has had some serious QC issues these days. Not easy being a guitar dealer IMO. Add to the fact that everything is internet bought these days. Believe me if you buy a guitar from TMZ's store stock it will be good.
If TMZ got this Tal for their store and did a setup on it they would have sent it back. I am not out a dime just some time.
I just need to decide whether to give Gibson anymore of my business. Gibson doesn't value it's customers IMO.
Over the years all the duds I sent back to them never once did I ever get a "Sorry Customer" or we will make you another one right away.
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Regarding J-Dub's point. I'm in the midst of shipping an 18" archtop to Germany. I generally take several days, purposefully, to pack an archtop. Taking my time allows me to scrutinize my own packing job, and I'm not in a rush to get the guitar to the shipper to satisfy a shipping date...better safe, than sorry.
The dense polyform material J-Dub eluded to is ideal packaging material for guitars, because it adds strength, without adding a great amount of shipping weight.
Observe the double boxing. It's my personal rule. If it's not double boxed it doesn't ship.
I'll cocoon the guitar case as best I can in the polyform material and fill in around it with styrofoam peanuts, to prevent anything from shifting in transit.
I use a 4 inch thick piece of foam beneath the inner box and outer box...It's dense, and gives the base of the case some cushioned absorption, in the event the box is "bounced", read dropped.
I do my best to protect the top, and back, with 2 inches of dense foam board. The neck and headstock are encircled with the polyform material.
As always, we ship at our own risk...I prefer shipping air freight whenever possible to attempt to minimize ground handling.
Below photos are of a walkthrough packing I do to ensure everything fits. Then once I've got the case surrounded to my liking I remove the case, wrap it tightly in shrink wrap, available at any home depot, which prevents the case from getting dinged up, and allows the receiver to extract the guitar from the box without making a mess of the case, and or guitar inside it, with peanuts clinging to it.
We all know shipping is always a roll of the dice, but let's face it, sticking a case into a single cardboard box, double corrugated or not, with peanuts, as is often the case, is simply asking for trouble...imho.
Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 06-03-2016 at 06:09 PM.
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@2b,
You could teach the ancient Egyptians a thing or two!
The only things missing are the charms, amulets and scarabs.
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Bummer! I have to say most of the newer Gibson archtops I've played the last few years have been stellar! Hopefully they'll get you one that you like.
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2b,
Done with military precision , exactly what one expects from you.
I would be happy to receive a guitar as well packed as this.
Ironically I use a local man , Mr Hu ,( Chinese), as fastidious as
yourself, when sending an amp or guitar. He explained to me in
great detail how he despatched a 55k vase taking into account
pressure changes when sending by air freight. One of my good
friends on the forum received am Evans preamp from me and
was incredulous at the packing, & an amp combo which took him
30 minutes to unpack. Well worth the effort ,and not hugely
expensive.Last edited by silverfoxx; 06-04-2016 at 03:59 AM.
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Vinny,
Although TMZ are treating you quite properly as their valued customer, it
is patently obvious that Gibson are not.
I just wish that I was as sensible as some of my friends, one of whom is a
lifetime pro player, whose name you would not know, but arguably the best
player from these shores, who never buys new, he plays mostly his old
beat up S400 one pickup or a lawsuit Ibanez L5 . which in a blindfold test
no one could distinguish from the real deal. Another, on this forum, only
has used instruments and I would love to be able to play as well as him
If it was my decision ,I would take a full refund from TMZ., and reflect on it.
May I reiterate that I have had 13 new Gibsons, plus others ,in less than three
years ( I suffer the same affliction of Guitar-aholicism) Four of those Gibsons
were Lemons. a RI ES355, a ES LP Supreme, a RI ES330, and the ubiquitous
ES175 DN 1959 RI. of which Gibson Europe , condescendingly said " there was
nothing wrong with it" ( despite 3 tech's, and my opinion had a different perspective)
The jury is out on my latest acquisition, the Es 275 ,time will tell on that.
If this all sounds negative, it is because I too am less than pleased with Gibson treating
us as if we are a bunch of mugs,
AlanLast edited by silverfoxx; 06-04-2016 at 06:36 AM.
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Looks like all your lemons came out of Memphis. The Tal however came out of Nashville. Just sayin'.
Both Memphis Gibsons I have ever bought new (330, 175) went back straight away, too. The Memphis QC sometimes seems non-existent. Nashville lemons are more unusual as far as I can tell.
Pretty amazing that you still buy from them if you feel treated badly repeatedly. GAS is a bitch, I know.
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exactly! Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
.... and somehow it reflects the shipper's missing appreciation for the value of the instrument he's sending out.
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Gibsons from the "90s are not perfect neither.
My '96 Tal apparently had a poorly cut nut, the previous owner who is actually a player, swapped it for a bone nut so the strings are spaced properly; not acceptable on a CS instrument how minor a fix it is.
It also suffers a bit from headstock lacquer delamination around the logo like many mid '90s Gibson, 1996 Tals seems prone to that...It is cosmetic however.
I still think it is an awesome instrument as it plays and sounds gorgeous; like I said many times honeymoon is still ongoing even after a year.
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YOU DA MAN, 2BOP! You da man!!
Now, why can't anybody pack a guitar like you do? Make a Youtube video, dude, and post it.
If you don't mind, I am going to borrow your photos and show it to anyone who sells me a guitar. I want it packed like THAT!Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-04-2016 at 07:08 AM.
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A couple thoughts:
It is a common belief that Quality Control/Quality Assurance (QC/QA) ensures the quality of a product. To some limited degree this is true within the contraints of sampling (which is limited), but the quality of a product really starts in design and ends at manufacturing. You simply can't test it in. The issues being descibed are rooted in materials and manufacturing methods/procedures. So while I sympathize with the OP, the thread should say " Gibson Manufacturing Strikes Again".
My $.02
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this is EXACTLY the point that needs to be made here. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
When I talk to Gibson customer service, they act like you, the customer should feel privileged to talk to someone at Gibson. B.S. It should be other way around.
They need to listen to what's going on around here and make some changes, real quick.
with all due respect, the used Gibsons we all own around here are proof that Gibson can make some extraordinary guitars. But buying new from Gibson? I am not sold until they apologize and get there stuff together.
JD
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There is a reason many of us have a Love AND Hate relationship with Gibson and that thread along with the one from Stringswinger is clearly showing why.
I have been lucky so far but lets be honest in my case my limited actual sampling doesn't mean anything.
If we make a full inventory of all Gibson owners on that forum with the amount in money invested in past present and (hopefully for Gibson) future instruments, Gibson should start to be very careful.
If I had the means and could justify it, I would buy an early '60s Tal or a BK (DB's and Jack's sound sublime) or a 350 when Gibson were at the prime, but they are far to scarce up here and I don't have the balls to buy a used instrument online that could have a sunk top or other problem only a specialist could see.
So Gibson can still get away with people like me who trust their recent stuff (to an extent) but that could change when even the diehard fan starts to simply chase the safest bet which is on the used market...
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Drifter,
Yes I must be a masochist, it is not so simple
getting a satisfactory used Gibson in the Uk,
to be fair tho' both my L5ces and TF were
Purchased new both circa 2013 and are two
of my keepers, the L5 is absolutely superb
Ditto the TF neither had any issues.i have
Two other keepers with no issues whatever,
A Guild/ Benedetto x700 which is superlative
and a recently acquired Pat Metheny Pm200
Ibanez which was perfect in all respects and
could have been gigged straight from the box
no adjustments required at all. All Ibanez
guitars I have had since 1983 have had the
same QC standard of perfection , Gibson
take note.
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