The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by vintagelove
    BTW I'm about to try a wgs 8 in my baby, I'll report the results so people can have that option if they want.
    This would indeed be interesting information. There is not many 8" speakers in 4 ohm. Eminence has a "new" 820 model but it can stand only 20 Watts.

    So we are waiting! I like WGS speakers a lot.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by yebdox
    I've been playing a long time, but have never had the opportunity to play through a Polytone! I know people reference Joe Pass' tone, along with Benson's (who apparently likes to run them in tandem with a fender of some sort) but can any one refer me to maybe a duo recording, where one player is going through a poly and the other through a blackface of some sort? Or reference the tone of a poly to other solid states I'm familiar with, like the Roland jazz chorus, or Acoustic Image?

    I'm pretty much stuck in the world of tubes for now, but always like to study the tone equations of the greats!
    Yebdox, you gotta try one yourself.
    they sound different in different rooms. They respond differently to a variety of picking attacks.
    I am not an authority on really anything. But believe me when I tell you, there is a reason these little amps have the reputation they have. They are incredible. They are durable. They are immensely powerful and they practically fit in your pocket. The sound is very dependent on your playing style. My Polytone MiniBrute 12" sounds better with my Gibson Solid formed than it does with my Heritage D'Angelico. It's hard to explain. But as a Jazz Guitarist, the one thing you have to do in life is try a Polytone.
    Joe D

  4. #28

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    Beware... Polytones are like archtop guitars... few are happy with just one. I had one, then two (need a Minibrute to back up the mini brute you know?) then a baby brute (you know, for the office, a little practice time) then an open-back baby brute (hey I didn't know they made one, Joe Pass plays one on a great video...).

    So I have FOUR. Looking on reverb.com right now at one that is a model I hadn't seen before...

  5. #29

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    Lawson is right. I have six--a BabyBrute, two Mini Brute IIIs, a IV, and two PAs. All are great guitar/bass amps.

  6. #30

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    Hi I'm Lawson
    I'm a Polytone Addict

    (all): "HI LAWSON"
    It all began with this Joe Pass tune I heard on NPR...

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Beware... Polytones are like archtop guitars... few are happy with just one. I had one, then two (need a Minibrute to back up the mini brute you know?) then a baby brute (you know, for the office, a little practice time) then an open-back baby brute (hey I didn't know they made one, Joe Pass plays one on a great video...).

    So I have FOUR. Looking on reverb.com right now at one that is a model I hadn't seen before...

    Polytone also has surprising variety of all kinds of amps to own and try.

    And here in Northern Europe the jazz amp market is so small, that if You succeed to buy a Polytone, nobody wants to buy it from You, so in the end You will own several of them!

  8. #32

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    @Greentone, there are some polytones out there that have multiple model numbers on them, like II III, III IV. How would you know which model you have?

    TIA
    edh

  9. #33

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    Actually the founder of Polytone, Tommy Gumina, was an accordion player who wanted an amp that would do a good job amplifying accordions. I would not be surprised if the Polytone accordion inspired the name of the amplifier.

  10. #34

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    In my owners manual Gumina writes that Polytone refers (1) to an amp for guitars, basses, keyboards, and accordions--Polytones, and (2) the sound you get when you make a C7 (no 5th) in the left hand and a D chord in the right hand...augmented-11? Anyway, that was Gumina's story.

  11. #35

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    ... so, can anyone give me an estimate on how much is my Minibrute IV worth ?

    I'm willing to try something new, to get out of the (wonderful) classic sound, and experiment with newer machines, but have to sell it, and have no idea about a reasonable price to ask...

  12. #36

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    Depending on condition, most Polytones in the US bring $300-$400 today. A beater that needs work...half that.

    if your amp says I, II, III, IV, look for this: reverb? If yes, it's a II or IV. If no, it's a I or III. 12" speaker? It's a I or II. 15"? It's a III or IV. 15", reverb, and tweeters? It's a V.

    10" speaker? It's a Teeny Brute. 8" speaker? It's a BabyBrute .

    GT

  13. #37

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    Hi Greentone,

    Great thread! I will read it all. Here are pics of the one I have. I noticed some sort of a slight buzz that follows the sound when I strike a note, if you see what I mean?.. When I play the guitar on my Blues Junior the sound is clear so I guess it is not the guitar. The buzz sounds as I had the Distortion very slightly on in the background at very low volume. Also as soon as I add reverb there is more noise. Would you have any idea as to what might cause this sort of noises?
    I had opened up the amp and it looks stunningly clean inside.

    Polytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02307-jpgPolytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02306-jpgPolytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02305-jpg

    The treble control also provide only very subtle changes too, is that common on those?

    Would very much appreciate any tips you might have to offer in terms of where to start looking for the cause of those background noises. It is more discernible with low volume between 1 and 3. But now that I have taken notice of it I hear it all the time! and it does bug me.

  14. #38

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    Zack,

    That's a great old Mini Brute II. It's a superb jazz guitar amp, or--with the reverb off--a good upright bass/electric bass amp for small clubs and jazz use.

    Hmm? I've seen the condition you are talking about where the treble control has limited effect. Usually, the amp sounds pretty bassy, overall. The couple of amps I've seen like this had a condition in which one of the leads to the speaker had slipped off--a very easy fix.

    On the Polytone amp there are two power transistors that are operating in push-pull. Each has a blue lead and a red lead that goes to the speaker. So, there are four wires going to the speaker. If one red or one blue lead is off, you are not getting the correct push-pull signal from the power amp. The amp is running hot, sounding bassy, and the treble control isn't doing too much. (On a Polytone amp the treble control ordinarily is capable of boosting or cutting the treble content by 20db.) If you remove the grill foam--held in place by sort of a velcro arrangement--you will reveal the speaker. If you carefully remove the four speaker screws you can carefully pull the speaker out a bit and look inside. Don't fool around in there. Just look to see if any of the four speaker leads has come off the spade connections on the CTS brand speaker. (You will know if it is the original CTS by looking for the code 137 printed on the speaker magnet.) The spade lugs are on the bottom of the speaker, near the magnet. If one wire is off, put it back onto the obvious spade lug and replace the speaker and grill. Your amp should sound MUCH improved.

    If this sounds at all precarious, do not attempt it. Have a friend who is familiar with electronics do it, or take the amp to someone who works on these things. The point is, your MBII should be a dead simple fix, not a simple fix that leaves you dead.

  15. #39

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    That's great ! Thanks so much for getting back to me on that so quick and take the time to explain. I'll have a go and will let you know how I get on.
    Thank you!

    Sent from my VF-895N using Tapatalk

  16. #40

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    You bet. Your Mini Brute, by the way, is from the "best" period--the early 80s, black, diamond-Tolex covered amps with just a treble and bass control. Most jazz guitar players like these models the best.

  17. #41

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    Sometimes, the amps can sound bassy because someone has replaced the speaker with a high-compliance, bass speaker (usually an Eminence). For the amp you have, the original equipment speaker--if it is a 12" speaker--is this one:

    Polytone Mini Brute IV-s-l500-jpg

    Polytone Mini Brute IV-s-l64-jpg

    It should have this code on the magnet structure. Notice the protective screen and velcro hooks on the front of the speaker.

    The Eminence version of the same speaker is perfectly fine. Here is the 15" version of the Eminence, for comparison:

    Polytone Mini Brute IV-polytone-eminence-15-4-ohm-speaker-front-view-jpg

    Polytone Mini Brute IV-polytone-eminence-15-4-ohm-speaker-front-jpg

    Code 67 is Eminence.

  18. #42

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    Thanks! That's good reference to have. I think I have a 15". On the amp it is stated to be a Mini brute IV also. I guess which ever 2or 4 the issue with the 4 wires still applies.
    I will have to wait till Saturday to get into it and find out.

    Sent from my VF-895N using Tapatalk

  19. #43

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    Oh yeah also noticed that the buzz is more present when setting the amp on the "brite" position. Hear it a lot less on "Dark".

    Sent from my VF-895N using Tapatalk

  20. #44

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    Hi Greentone,
    Had to find-out! So I opened-up the beast. To me it all looks in order. I was really hoping to see one of those wires hanging aloof but nope, they all seem to go where they are meant to.

    Polytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02324-jpgPolytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02320-jpgPolytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02318-jpgPolytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02317-jpgPolytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02316-jpgPolytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02314-jpgPolytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02313-jpgPolytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02311-jpgPolytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02310-jpgPolytone Mini Brute IV-dsc02308-jpg

    What do you think? Do you recognize this speaker?

    Any other suggestions?

    Thank you.

  21. #45

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    Okay, you removed the back panel. That works, too and exposes more. You have an OEM (original equipment manufacture) Eminence 15" 4-ohm speaker, which is correct for your amp. Everything looks good. The amp is original and doubtless worth what you paid...nice amp.

    At 35 years old, I bet its electrolytic filter capacitors are working, but tired. You could get hum, and get ghost notes along with the note you are playing. Lots of folks have the big filter caps in the power amp...at bottom of cabinet...replaced. A tech can do this inexpensively. I haven't replaced mine though, and my amps are quiet.

  22. #46

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    There is buzzes and whizzes with old amps but could this be a hole-in-a-speaker-baffle -type of buzz? Zack, can You test the amp with another speaker?

    Greentone, have You ever replaced 15" speakers in these? Some Eminence Bass speaker? Legend, Deltalite, Basslite? Or a 15" guitar speaker?

    Changing capacitors is a cheap act of maintaining an old amp. I should do same for my MB IV, though I hear no extra sounds from it.

    Congrats Zack! It is a great amp!

  23. #47

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    Thanks for chipping in Herbie. The thought crossed my mind too as a possible cause. Only had a look at the speaker membrane but may possibly not have spotted the offending part. The test you suggest should be the next task in my to do list. But that would not explain the seemingly poor tone modulation offered by the treble control, would it?

    Sent from my VF-895N using Tapatalk

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zack
    (...) But that would not explain the seemingly poor tone modulation offered by the treble control, would it?
    Yeah, I suppose no. Maybe the cap job should be done first and then listen how it sounds.

    My first Polytone was a wrecked 102 that I found from a junk pile in our rehearsal room years ago. It made just huge farting buzz when turned on. I took it to a tech and after a week or two he had done it for 70 euros. Not a bad price for a nice amp!

  25. #49

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    Not bad at all!! That's the kind of tech I'd need to find. These days they all seem to be valve amp experts. I'm surprised at how little knowledge sharing there is available on Polytone amps around, in comparison with say stripping apart a blues Jr for instance. When so many Jazz players have been using Polytones.

  26. #50

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    While we're talking about age-related issues on Polytones, my BabyBrute with the open back has a noticeable buzz when I turn up the reverb. The more reverb, the more it buzzes.

    Is this something I could fix myself? Or even diagnose myself? Am I correct in thinking the reverb tank is attached to the top-back of this little amp?