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I don't think Heritage themselves ever considered their guitars a "more affordable Gibson." The name never carried the cache, of course, so they were priced lower, and took big hits on the used market. But Heritage guitars were never "cheap."
The original Heritage cats aren't spring chickens anymore...sometimes adjustments do have to be made to stay afloat. We love our archtops, but less face it...we are a pretty small segment of the guitar buying public.
But believe me, I'm glad I got my '95 575 when I did about 7 years ago...and I'll be hanging on to it, too.
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11-19-2018 05:03 PM
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I realize they weren't cheap, I was just thinking maybe half price or a couple of $1000 off the price of a new Gibson (175, L5, 335 and whatnot). The LP style is higher than many Gibsons and the 335 is in the same ballpark.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I don't really know because I haven't lived near any stores that carry new ones. The used ones are quite a bit cheaper than the comparable Gibson model.
I'm glad they're still out there and hope they keep making good guitars.
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If new prices are higher, then the older 'pre CBS' 'pre Norlin' models, should go up in value accordingly.
A win for those collectors who bought well second hand before the change over. Dependent on model and that there's enough interest in the market, of course.
Obviously not 'pay off the mortgage' levels but a nice bit of change plus a quick sell.
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To be fair, a 2019 Les Paul Standard on Sweetwater or MF is about $3400. So in that case, the Heritage LP is about a grand less than the comparable model by Gibson. I still think your general point stands, though.
Also...I can't believe a Les Paul Standard is $3400!!!
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I don't think the dust has truly settled at Heritage or Gibson enough to make any rash judgements. Both are reorganizing under new ownership with an eye toward improving consistency of their product and bottom line. The old Heritage guys were guitar builders first, like many true artists not necessarily great businessmen. Now Heritage has a bunch of CNC type equipment that does what their older craftsmen used to do by hand. I don't know if that is better or worse. Gibson has severely limited what one can buy without a costly custom order, Heritage is making 535s, H150s and not much else just yet. You want a Golden Eagle or Super Eagle I think they're gonna make you custom order it at quite a markup.
I also see Jay Wolfe posting shots of new Heritage models just coming into his store. They ARE very nice looking.
And YES, he is opening up his Vault, if you will, of great cream of the crop examples he's acquired over the years as Heritages' largest dealer. I think the man has an eye toward building up his retirement fund and picked a great time to do it. Some of these pieces are truly out of this world stuff from the late 80's and early 90s. But fear not, a quick look see online there are lots of amazing used Heritages for sale. One or two VERY NICE ones right here in our For Sale section. I'd prefer a "used" one that's settled in and opened up to a new one.
I DO know I'm real glad I bought up a number of Patrick Amato's Heritage guitars. All stuff he cherry picked at the factory.
Big
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"they", the original Heritage guitar company, is no longer in business. This new outfit is "heritage" in name only. That's pretty easy to understand, right?
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Excellent point. What we knew up to now no longer exists.I think the comparison to Gibson is totally out of context as Heritage carried on the original business model, hence "The Heritage".
Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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I am glad I got a number of great Heritages while the old guys were still in business (a Golden Eagle, an acoustic Super Eagle, a Johnny Smith, a H-555 and a H-157). Will hold on to them.
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Heritages were cheaper wholesale than Gibson for at least a few decades. That got some shops interested is becoming dealers.
Jay Wolfe became a Heritage dealer after being disappointed with Gibson for a few years. He told me the good Gibson archtop builds were going to Asia. Americans got second tier stuff. Heritage came along with better woods and thousands less for the Super Eagle and Golden Eagle. He soon became the largest Heritage dealer.
A lot of Heritage guitars go to Asia today. There is a market for guitars built in the old Gibson shop. The quality is more consistent now. I understand that they are Plek'ing again. But the prices are significantly higher now.
Note that I said the quality is more consistent. Most Heritage guitars were built well. There were occasional duds. Since they were built the old way, there were issues with overspray, binding dots being not completely level, the binding not being scraped 100%, and so on. The necks were shaped in varying thicknesses. Each guitar had its own uniqueness.
I got Jay's Heritage Johnny Smith. That's a first rate instrument. Likely all of his personal instruments, including his Gibson archtops, are primo.
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whats happening with the actual workspace/factory? can't imagine new owners could get past insurance and workplace safety codes with the condition the way it was..it looked always looked so chaotic..at best!!!
cheers
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I originally had a 90 Golden Eagle, a Johnny Smith Rose and an H575. I loved them all but sold them for something I never regretted buying, i.e. my 39 D'A. I consider myself very lucky to have had some great examples of earlier Heritage instruments and really enjoyed playing them. I still however have a Heritage "Gretsch" Eldorado from 96 (I think) which is a fantastic guitar and plays extremely well. That's something I'm going to hold on to for a long time. The best thing for us to do is see how the future unfolds before we start trashing the company. It's too bad that a lot of good luthiers got let go. Big corporations never had the reputation of being sensitive to peoples' feelings and this one is no exception.
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?From hanging out at the Heritage Owners forum I heard that the plant got gutted inside, they cleaned out. And they modernized it a lot. If you had ever been at any of the Heritage reunions every year you would not recognize the place. That's the new owners for ya man...
Originally Posted by neatomic
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My Heritage built D'Angelico New Yorker replica was built in the mid 90's (the label is signed by all four founders) and was part of Jay Wolfe's personal collection (it passed through the hands of two forum members here before ending up with me). It is a superb acoustic archtop guitar.
In the past I had a Heritage 535 in Almond sunburst made in 1999. Great guitar.
But just as Gibson is no longer Ted McCarty's Gibson of the past, Fender is no longer Leo's Fender and Guild is no longer Al Dronge's Guild, so too, the new Heritage is no longer the Heritage of the founders.
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Interestingly a couple of months ago Dave's Guitars announced with some fanfare they were going to start carrying Heritage guitars. (As you may know, Dave's got into a bit of a feud with the Gibson management and they dropped him.)
They only have 1 new Heritage listed on the website now, and Dave's is now a certified dealer for...wait for it...Gibson.
I imagine this came about because of the new Gibson management. Too bad for Heritage though.
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That's actually very encouraging news about Gibson. It seems like they might be trying to repair some important relationships that died towards the end of the old regime. Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
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We've been privileged to live long enough to experience the passing, the death, of archtops. It's kind of like when you were 10 and all of a sudden they said jazz was dead, "fusion" is the the thing now. Who knew that not long after the last disco ball had spun, the 80's would see a resurgence of traditional jazz, featuring some great young musicians breathing new life into the music. It's all part of the natural order of things. Change. Death. The only question that remains will jazz find even a small audience after us baby boomers have passed. It's funny that classical found a way to maintain its existence for centuries. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I was going to make a point, but Stringswinger beat me to it.
We say that Heritage is no longer Heritage. Well, I've got news for you. Fender has been making parts-casters for the last 54 years. Gibson has been making faux-Gibsons since a cement company purchased it 50 years ago.
This doesn't mean that I haven't purchased Fenders and Gibsons--I've owned many.
However, you, me, and the guy behind the tree all recognize that there is a difference between pre-65 Fenders and what followed, pre-1970 Gibsons and the rest, Dronge-era and post-Dronge era Guilds, etc.
It's early, but I predict that when the history of Heritage is written there will be similar ups and downs...and that prices will reflect this, as is the case with Fender/Gibson/Guild.
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The Heritage news is interesting and I sort of feel more optimistic than most here - every business has to retire and hire over time if it is to have longevity so I'll give this story time to play out. I used to own a mid 90s 575 bought new at the time and sadly, I seem to have got one of the duds mentioned above. Even allowing for simple fixes (intermittent signal loss from p'up, badly cut nut slot), there was something dead about that guitar that even a local shop could not quite fix. I moved it on and sort of gave up on the brand after that - was lucky enough to trade it in on a decent Gibson 335 which I still have and which was, frankly, better made. I guess it's all guitar specific - been checking out ES-275s lately and the variability in finish quality is quite staggering -- there's one on Reverb right now that has stains throughout the neck binding which the dealer just told me is now normal for Gibson..can't help but wonder sometimes about what companies think of their customers. Consistent quality control seems to me an improvement worth pursuing
Last edited by odel; 11-24-2018 at 01:02 AM.
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Given that Gibson is even earlier in the re-organization cycle, I'm not sure that this is the time to judge them based on the current retail inventory. That was all manufactured by the previous owner. Just my opinion but I'd probably hold off on buying either a Heritage or a Gibson until there was a much clearer picture of the quality of the offerings from the new managements of both companies. Originally Posted by odel
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Heritage and Gibson have made (and I'm sure continue to make) some excellent instruments. There were several superb Heritage guitars at last year's winter NAMM, and I look forward to checking out the Heritage offerings at the upcoming NAMM. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
While I understand Jim's approach, my typical approach is simply to play a pile of guitars when I am in the market - those that specifically appeal to my taste tend to jump out of the crowd, regardless of the managerial and financial issues of the day. The instruments that I have purchased online have typically been so well described that they met or exceeded my expectations.
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Was brousing on the Musicians Friend site last night and was surprised to see that they now sell a selection of Heritage guitars.
I would think that this would upset their dealers like Wolfe Guitars.
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As much as I agree, Heritage must find ways to get gits into the mainstream, and single shop "mom and pop" stores spread apart by hundreds or thousands of miles is not going to do it.
Wolfe has some long time clients, many for custom orders. If Heritage will still supply the one off service, I don't see MF as a player in the game that Wolfe services so well. At any rate, I hope it won't hurt Wolfe.
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From a Marketing perspective I have long believed that Heritage needed to broaden their distribution channel. However, I thought they needed to expand their network of high quality "Value Added Dealers". I did not expect them to sign with a "big box" organization like MF.
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I guess I'd like to see their solids and semi's sold that way, but not the archtops.
Why do I feel that way? I have no idea.
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i thought they didn't make archtops anymore?
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