working jazz musician's archtop?

[sunnysideup]

Well we all know that back in 1949 the ES175 was designed and marketed to be the working jazz musician's archtop and retailed at 175 USD.

So, plugging 175 into any internet inflation calculator I come up with around 1,750 USD in today's money. But sadly, the recommended retail price of today's ES175 is from 3,999 USD as taken fron the manufacturer's website.

If you were spending 1,750 USD today on a new professional level archtop what would you buy?

[eddy b.]

Heritage H575, or a Dangelico reissue, both of which I own and gig weekly.

[vintagelove]

Peerless Monarch has to be the definition of the working musicians archtop. It plays, tunes, sounds, intonates as well as any guitar. I can't say enough how well it plays.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Various Godin 5th Avenue models.

[lawson-stone]

Actually I think it's a rich environment for somebody with $1500-$1750 to spend on an archtop. You can get high quality laminate or solid wood, pressed or carved, floating pickup or set-in pickups, whatever scale length you want, and the look of whatever lights your fires, whether it's the L5 vibe or the ES175.

I find my Peerless Monarch makes me feel like I'm dating a really fine lady. Superb. I also love my used Epiphone Broadway. You can get a really excellent ES175 copy, even a "lawsuit" era Ibanez or Aria.

So really, if that range is the "working musician's" range, it's a great time for somebody with that kind of money to spend to be shopping for an archtop.

[Nate Miller]

$1500-$1750 is a lot to spend on an axe. I mean, I have a steady job, but you could hold a gun at me and not get that that much money out of me

those Peerless Monarchs really are nice axes, and there are models selling for a little less than $1500, too

But I've been seeing some decent hollow body guitars in the $600 - $800 range, I want to hear more about some of that action.

those Godin 5th Ave guitars I've seen in shops. Not had a chance to play one, but they look like solid working musician axes.

I used to play an Ibanez George Benson model that was good enough to play gigs with as a teenager. I picked that one up for $500 but that was more than 35 years ago

Anybody played any Epiphone or Ibanez archtops lately?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I used to play an Ibanez George Benson model that was good enough to play gigs with as a teenager. I picked that one up for $500 but that was more than 35 years ago

My inflation calculator tells me $500 dollars in 1980 is about $1370 today. You may want to start saving money in a Mason jar!

[Nate Miller]

My inflation calculator tells me $500 dollars in 1980 is about $1370 today. You may want to start saving money in a Mason jar!

lucky for me I have that '54 Gibson 175 so I can use that $1300 to get my transmission rebuilt


you know, I play lots of instruments...I have something like 4 fiddles, 3 banjos, a small pile of guitars, a few odd woodwinds...its just ridiculous

but I have this one rule....I don't spend more than $500 unless I'm making money with it

That keeps me from doing something stupid like paying $3500 for a Wheatstone 30 button anglo concertina

[coolvinny]

Eastman 371

[Doctor Jeff]

I bought an ES175 about 1980, paid $850-900. Today it should cost $2600, accounting for inflation. New ones are priced much higher as Gibson has become more of a boutique or marquee manufacturer, with a major price rise due to the prestige factor.

Unfortunately, contrary to some opinions, the 175 has not really held up as an investment on the used market, compared to other things one could invest in like an indexed mutual fund.

I will be looking at a (hopefully) gently used ES135 this weekend. Out of all Gibson's archies that's the only one that could remotely be called a workingman's guitar.

Of course there are lots of decent Epiphones--one could argue Gibson has outsourced its workingman production to Epi.

There are also a lot of great guitars out there for much less than a new 175. I am a personal fan of Godin and Peerless. The more I play my Peerless, the more I think it is such a wonderful guitar for the money. I would recommend it to anyone as a great guitar at a great price.

If I get the 135, it will really have to be special to outperform the Sunset.

[christianm77]

You can get a decent deal on a used but non vintage 175

Many pros using eastmans these days.

I like the godin 5th ave composer and jazz models...

[jzucker]

again, i'll state that the fixation on new, shiny guitars really limits what you can do with your money. I recently bought an '83 Aria Herb Ellis. It's basically a 175 copy with an ebony fingerboard and a sound post and it's quality surpasses gibson for the most part. Sounds amazing and you can get them for well under $1000. I got mine for significantly less than that. It blows away most of the budget archtops you can buy new going for $2000ish

[drbhrb]

Ibanez artcore or epiphone. Solid archtops for well under $1k.

[Doctor Jeff]

I generally always buy used, in fact, I think every single one of my 12 guitars was bought second-hand. That said, there is an art to buying vintage guitars. There are potential issues with 20-30 year-old guitars that don't come up with new or 2-3-year old guitars. Can you get a 30-year-old 175 Gibson or copy that's a bargain? Sure! But you can get a lot of big electronic or structural problems as well.

As with cars, I think a new or fairly recent model such as mentioned above is a reliable bet, unless you are knowledgable and/or don't mind a bit of risk.

As an aside, I have had great luck with cars and guitars. With women, not so much...

[Nate Miller]

you know, I got a real sweetheart deal on my 175. I had a good friend who is a great guitar player. He had just bought a Johnny Smith L5. He had been playing the 175 since he was in high school.

We were over at his house drinking whiskey and playing duets in his kitchen at around 3 am (yes, it was a school night), when out of the blue he sort of looks blearily across the kitchen table at me and says, most seriously..."Nate, you need to be playing a good guitar"

I was on an Ibanez George Benson 175 knockoff

I say, sure but how am I going to afford a good guitar?

He says "I think I'd like you to have Ezra." My guitar is named "Ezra", BTW

I thought it was whiskey talk, but he was serious

He sold me Ezra for the price he paid for it ... $900

He even let me pay it off.

I have never ceased to thank God for all the good musicians He has put in my life, even in the years when I was as far from Him as a man could be

[Hep To The Jive]

A lot of vintage Guilds are in that range, and I would buy them before Gibson anyway... I got two of mine less than $1400 each, both made in 1961, and they are all I gig with.

[10course]

Disclaimer: I'm not a pro.....just a guy who plays some local gigs, parties, and such when time permits.

On a tight budget, a 1990s Epiphone Emperor, but change the stock pickup. Even with the new pickup, you will be under $1000 and "most likely" have a good neck and nicely adorned body that won't embarrass you if on stage playing with some heavies.

Otherwise, Eastman......many models to choose from to suit your style. -- I have an 1956 ES175, but choose to take my Eastman 805 more often.

[whiskey02]

Can we really talk about this subject without talking about corporate greed being responsible for what should be adjusted for inflation, a $1750 guitar being priced at $4000? To be fair, you can in fact get an American made guitar crafted by a lone artisan (which is almost always the most expensive way to build anything) or his/her small shop for $4000. That fact that a lone craftsman can build you a one off for the same $ is absolute proof that a factory can do it for far less cost (with much higher profit).
I don't care what anybody does with their own money, but I'm always shocked when folks post a NGD for a Gibson arch top.

[jazzimprov]

which monarch are you guys playing?

The 17 or the 16 with set pickups?

if the 16, then does it sound different than other Archtops?

...like very mid range ?

thanks

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I've often wondered about the level of mark-up on various products. Recently my wife bought some expensive perfume. Yikes!

[Doctor Jeff]

Well I wouldn't call it greed--all people and companies want to get the most they can from the market. It is after all a true free market for instruments. (Unlike pharmaceuticals, for instance.) You can take that $4000 and commission a guitar from an artisan. But it won't say Gibson on the headstock.

Or you can put down your $4000 and enjoy your Gibson and the prestige that goes along with it. It's totally up to you.

It is certainly IMO a prestige markup--the reputation and the demand from rich people and collectors all over the world drives up prices. Guitars is hardly the only product in which this occurs.

I agree re' perfumes and would add cosmetics. Some of the femmes in my family are addicted to fine cosmetics. More expensive than cocaine.

[Hep To The Jive]

Or you can put down your $4000 and enjoy your Gibson and the prestige that goes along with it. It's totally up to you.

And that's one of the reason I won't ever touch Gibson. Anti-prestige means a lot to me, and, if you take 'prestige' factor, Gibson is not really that special. Never found one with comfortable neck anyway.

[whiskey02]

I hear what you're saying doctor jeff, but it is greed, and it is sadly fueled by people who want to buy "prestige". It's a little sad that consumers won't stop bullshitting and shooting themselves in their own foot. Gibson's terrible 2015 product line did not sell well at all and they have responded by getting rid of the things responsible for that. If people would simply refuse to pay $4000 for a $2000 instrument, guess what would happen to prices?
I'm not a Gibson hater anywhere near as much as I'm a people hater.

[dfclark]

+1 for Ibanez guitars in the $1,000 range. My Artcore Custom AF105 has been a fantastic gigging guitar: authentic L5 sound, very resistant to feedback, and totally reliable. I've gigged with it for about 8 years now in all kinds of conditions. I did upgrade the bridge to a StewMac tune-o-matic (~$30) which improved the sound a bit. Still looks great, and I regularly receive compliments on it!

[christianm77]

Jim Mullen plays an Aria and he's one of the best in the UK...