End-Pin Jacks

**lawson-stone** · 02-05-2016, 10:08 AM

I just despise them. You can't be playing plugged in, and to get up to pee, set the guitar on the floor leaned securely against the sofa, that plug gets in the way. Then as you manipulate the strap taking the guitar on and off, the jack unscrews. Plus, I don't like putting so much physical stress on the most important electrical connection in the guitar.

My Peerless Monarch and Epiphone Broadway have the jacks on the lower bout where all the older arch tops had them. My Loar LH650 has the endpin jack.

I'm thinking seriously about moving the jack, but drilling into the side on the lower bout is giving me some anxiety.

Am I the only one who dislikes end-pin jacks?

**jzucker** · 02-05-2016, 10:19 AM

i love them and wish I had them in all my guitars. With every other guitar, I always have to loop the cord through my strap for strain relief. I have seen literally dozens of old archtops with cracks around the jack where someone stepped on the cord while standing and had it crack the wood around the jack. This doesn't happen with the endpin jack.

I've never had an endpin jack unscrew or get loose and I have them in 3 guitars. I'd rather put stress on the electrical connection than the most fragile wood point in the entire instrument.

**Klatu** · 02-05-2016, 10:55 AM

Lawson hates them, Jack loves them, and I'm on the fence. I take the middle ground because while I like the added stability of having the strap located in the very solid end block, I've had several that present problems involving the size of the strap pin. Two of my guitars with end pin jacks have such large end pins that I've had to modify my straps to fit, and even then they are not as secure as they would be with a normal pin.

Also, I've never experienced an end pin jack unscrewing or becoming loose in any way.

Lawson,
As to your desire to drill another jack into your guitar, I'd recommend against it. First, there are no guarantees that the guitar would survive unscathed. Second, drilling into the side of an instrument would devalue it on the secondary market.

**wengr** · 02-05-2016, 11:00 AM

I got a Lava cord with a 90 degree plug on one end in order to alleviate somewhat the hassle of setting the guitar down.

**Bluedawg** · 02-05-2016, 11:13 AM

I see the negatives of an end pin jack ...

especially since I like to play holding my guitars in a classical style position and that puts the jack up against my right leg ... so I deal with that by buying quality cords with 90 degree jacks instead of the straight ones

I think the positives outway the negatives, though

I leant my L-4CES to a fellow jazz combo student once and he proceeded to sit on his amp with my guitar resting on the jack .... my '88 L4-CES has the traditional jack location on the bout ... I was nervous, but the guitar survived unscathed ... he asked to borrow my guitar because his Les Paul was in the shop ... he'd managed to crack the jack plate and now I knew how he'd cracked it by resting his LP on the jack .....

So putting the jack in the strongest part of the guitar makes the most since to me and is a worthy trade off considering the risks of the traditional location

**nopedals** · 02-05-2016, 11:28 AM

I have a post-war ES-150 with an ugly side jack repair done years ago. Had that patched and had the jack moved to the endpin where it belongs.

The worst connections are the old dearmonds with a screw in cord, especially if mounted on the pickguard. You definitely don't want to be stepping on the cord with one of those.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 02-05-2016, 11:32 AM

Well, I don't have an arch top, but I play a lot of acoustic through PA and such couple times a week. Agree with what Jack is saying completely, but the WAY that most end-pin Jack's are designed, industrywide, is just asinine. Just put an extra screw or two in there. There's absolutely no excuse for that thing constantly coming unscrewed , here, in the 21st-century.

A couple of months ago, I played a $300 Yamaha with an end-pen jack which beautifully, and simply solved this problem, while maintaining the integrity of what Jack Zucker is talking about. It has a small plate on the outside which screws in to the bottom of the instrument securing the jack. That plate is basically in place of the nut which is usually on the bottom and comes unscrewed.

I feel the same irritation about most jacks on solid bodies as well. Maybe there is some good reason for it... I don't know.But my experience has been thatJapanese manufacturers, of all things, are all about incremental improvement, more so than drastic design changes or flashy new whatever's. I think the simple improvement on that cheap guitar would be easily implemented on anything. Of course, we'll buy them anyway. So, why change?

**Pat Clare** · 02-05-2016, 11:48 AM

Use a cord with a right angle plug

**aleksandar** · 02-05-2016, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Pat Clare

Use a cord with a right angle plug

The most obvious solution.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 02-05-2016, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Pat Clare

Use a cord with a right angle plug

Solves one of the problems...

**lawson-stone** · 02-05-2016, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i love them and wish I had them in all my guitars. With every other guitar, I always have to loop the cord through my strap for strain relief. I have seen literally dozens of old archtops with cracks around the jack where someone stepped on the cord while standing and had it crack the wood around the jack. This doesn't happen with the endpin jack.

I've never had an endpin jack unscrew or get loose and I have them in 3 guitars. I'd rather put stress on the electrical connection than the most fragile wood point in the entire instrument.

Aw Jack, there you go citing facts and actual experience again.

You got a point there, to be honest. I haven't been around enough to see the cracked wood around the jacks. But I can easily imagine how the tailpiece could stabilize a jack, and mounting in the tailback certainly suggests added stability.

Okay, let's say there are a couple things about endpin jacks that just irritate me a little…

There goes the damn thread.

;-)

**lawson-stone** · 02-05-2016, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by wengr

I got a Lava cord with a 90 degree plug on one end in order to alleviate somewhat the hassle of setting the guitar down.

Hmmm. Yet another person making simple, practical sense.

I thought we were on the internet.

**vinnyv1k** · 02-05-2016, 12:58 PM

I like them though I play sitting. As stated I have never had one come loose. I think the big plus is you never have to worry about a rim crack. For me as a sit down player I like the fact that it gets the cable completely out of my way.
Thing is the only guitars I ever had that had one is a AA and DAQ. I play Gibson's mostly. I believe the LeGrand, Citation, and formed top are the only Gibson models that have them.

**Para** · 02-05-2016, 01:05 PM

Hate them.

**Woody Sound** · 02-05-2016, 01:09 PM

I always thought it was weird that electric classicals use an end-pin jack. If you hold the guitar in the traditional position, the plug sticks right into your right thigh. But, a good quality right angle plug minimizes that. I've been using the reasonably priced braided ones by Kirlin or GLS and I've been very happy with them.

**Bluedawg** · 02-05-2016, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by vinnyv1k

I like them though I play sitting. As stated I have never had one come loose. I think the big plus is you never have to worry about a rim crack. For me as a sit down player I like the fact that it gets the cable completely out of my way.
Thing is the only guitars I ever had that had one is a AA and DAQ. I play Gibson's mostly. I believe the LeGrand, Citation, and formed top are the only Gibson models that have them.

The new L5Ps have the end pin jack ...

Older Le Grands, like my '93, have the jack on the pickguard .... which has it's own issues

My '92 Sweet 16 has the jack on the end pin

**icr** · 02-05-2016, 02:30 PM

When I first got my L7 it had an endpin jack and I planned on removing it. However, after mounting the somewhat fragile McCarty fingerrest pickup, I realized the endpin jack was a good place to plug a cord. So I plug from the amp to the endpin jack and run a cord from the endpin, out the f-hole, to the McCarty.

**Max405** · 02-05-2016, 02:49 PM

I love endpin Jacks. Mine never come loose.
Although, I always play sitting down these days too.

I probably like end pin Jacks more because I had a 175 long ago that had the jack break through the lower rim. Whenever I let my dog in, he would run upstairs and jump on my bed. One day, the guitar was on the bed. Babe ran up the stairs, and jumped on my bed. Then the 175 was on the floor. Tragic.

**vinnyv1k** · 02-05-2016, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco

I love endpin Jacks. Mine never come loose.
Although, I always play sitting down these days too.

I probably like end pin Jacks more because I had a 175 long ago that had the jack break through the lower rim. Whenever I let my dog in, he would run upstairs and jump on my bed. One day, the guitar was on the bed. Babe ran up the stairs, and jumped on my bed. Then the 175 was on the floor. Tragic.

Yikes !!! You always see on the old jazz boxes the rim reinforced with a plate where the jack collapsed through the rim like on Herb's 175 or Barney's and Tal's 350. I had a rim crack once from a friend tripping on my cord. I am always very gentle plugging into a rim jack. Even more so on solid wood. I think a endpin jack may improve your pickup ground also as the ones I have had were dead quiet hum wise. Just a theory on my part.

**Top of the Arch!** · 02-05-2016, 03:50 PM

I like the endpin jacks myself, just put a dab of locktite on the threads and sock the nut down, it wont loosen up after that. Bob

**lawson-stone** · 02-05-2016, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Top of the Arch!

I like the endpin jacks myself, just put a dab of locktite on the threads and sock the nut down, it wont loosen up after that. Bob

Well there goes my last possible problem with end-pin jacks.

That, combined with my absolute ignorance of the fragility of the jack going into the rim pretty much means I'm a changed man.

I now love end-pin jacks!

**John A.** · 02-05-2016, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

I just despise them. You can't be playing plugged in, and to get up to pee, set the guitar on the floor leaned securely against the sofa, that plug gets in the way. Then as you manipulate the strap taking the guitar on and off, the jack unscrews. Plus, I don't like putting so much physical stress on the most important electrical connection in the guitar.

My Peerless Monarch and Epiphone Broadway have the jacks on the lower bout where all the older arch tops had them. My Loar LH650 has the endpin jack.

I'm thinking seriously about moving the jack, but drilling into the side on the lower bout is giving me some anxiety.

Am I the only one who dislikes end-pin jacks?

I believe Loar sells a catheter to go with their endpin-jack models.

John

**mr. beaumont** · 02-05-2016, 04:48 PM

Thought they'd bother me til I owned a guitar with one, now I realize it's a superior design.

**vinnyv1k** · 02-05-2016, 05:08 PM

Does anyone know if Gibson reinforces their rim jack holes now ? Maybe with a extra layer of wood glued to the inside of the rim hole area. It would be a good idea if they did. Kind of like a wood washer glued to the inside of the rim ?