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  1. #126
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in his response, he didn't deny that he makes unauthorized repairs to the consignor's guitars. Nor did he deny that he deducts any amount that he sees fit for these repairs, from the amount ultimately remitted to the consignor.

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  3. #127

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    As far as I'm concerned, any guitar that I consign to a dealer is still MINE until it has been sold and accepted by a new owner within any try-out period.

    So not a single thing should be done to it without explicit communication with me and the granting of my permission. If that means slightly less market value, then so be it. And I have the right to request MY guitar back at any time. I have avoided consigning with them because I've read about this stuff happening, and they are 3,000 miles away from me, making any recourse very inconvenient.

  4. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    "One person had the original knobs of his guitar swapped out and a $200 bill because "nobody wants those knobs".

    Outrageous…if it were true. We looked up the service record for this particular instrument and found it actually received: 1) a custom made vintage correct pickguard, 2) cleaning and buffing for scratches and dings, 3) a complete top-to-bottom setup, 4) a new set of strings, and 5) an extra set of hand-antiqued Gibson knobs. Total cost for the new knobs: $7.50 apiece. And the knobs it came with, of course, stayed with the guitar."



    I already responded in this thread, and don't want to pile on, but I will again.

    I specified that I wanted to avoid setup charges and the like and sent a guitar that was cleaned and setup already.
    Then w/out my consent or knowledge, the original knobs and truss rod cover were removed and a new pickguard made and installed.
    It was only after receiving my check did I become aware of the following deductions:

    Custom pickguard, Gibson 5 ply wide bevel antiqued edge $85
    Knobs, Gibson gold reflector cap, antiqued [4] $35 [not $7.50 ea. as stated above, but whatever]
    Truss rod cover, Gibson 3 ply, antiqued $15
    Set up, [blah, blah ,blah--read the bottom of one of their ads for all the standard details] $50
    Restring $15

    Total cost $200, removed from my check.

    so yes, it wasn't $200 just for knobs, but rather $200 for unecessary changes.
    The pickguard may or may not have been original, though if it wasn't it sure fooled me, and I've been around the block a few times when it comes to vintage guitars and their parts/specs as many here know.

    whether archtop.com or anyone else likes or dislikes the original parts or feels replacing them would facilitate a sale is pointless. it was done w/out my knowledge. only when I received the check w/deductions did I become aware of this.
    and as I said before, I know of NO other dealer that removes original parts!

    "Outrageous" indeed.

    I'm not telling anyone to buy or not to buy from them and I'm sure they've had enough satisfied customers to stay in business this long, but just relating my own experince since it was asked in this thread.

    ymmv....

    I want to add that if original parts were not substituted on my guitar and 'services' performed w/out my consent that were subsequently subtracted from my check as I stated above in post #121, I'd have been happy to send many more high end guitars to them.

    so the $200 extra I was dinged for ultimately resulted in a quite a loss of extra profit for them as well as me.

  5. #129

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    Thanks for helping set the record straight on the '$200 knob' urban legend. This sort of toxic myth can blow up very quickly on the web, as some earlier comments on this thread have amply demonstrated.

    But we will have to differ that any of the steps required to set this guitar in order were 'unnecessary' in any way. To be clear: the guitar arrived with a cheap, flimsy aftermarket pickguard clearly wrong for the model, which we replaced with a sturdy custom made guard with vintage correct specs, properly antiqued to match the original binding. (And we replaced it at our cost, with no markup.) It also needed strings, a complete setup, and cleaning, among other things.

    As one can clearly see from earlier comments in this thread, vintage customers care passionately about the tiniest of such details, and won't hesitate to subject any instrument to the most microscopic scrutiny. If the most incidental item isn't exactly right, you can bet we're going to hear about it, and plenty. And these are precisely the details that make the difference between a successful sale and a return, which is bad for both the purchaser and the consigner. And finally, these 'unnecessary' details repay themselves many times over in added value at the time of sale, in a market where too many retailers won't even change a rusty set of strings.

    The bottom line was we sold this instrument (a peculiar custom piece with an extremely short scale, a tough sell in any scenario) for top dollar, in very short order. And if we recall correctly, this item had languished unsold elsewhere for quite some time. As we've stated earlier, if a seller prefers to have their luthier bring the instrument up to specs themselves, more power to them, and less work for us. But no one can expend the labor and materials that any professional repair person would charge, and simply write them off altogether. And while we're wiling to absorb the costs ourselves for as long as it takes to sell the instrument (a service we believe is unique in the vintage market) at some point we simply do have to recoup our actual costs for labor and materials.

    That said, if there was a failure of communication in this regard, we sincerely apologize: there's always room for improvement here, and we take feedback from our valued customers very seriously. But we'll never apologize for our commitment to deliver the most meticulously restored and most highly playable instruments that we possibly can. It's a reputation we've fostered diligently over two decades, with happy customers now numbering in the thousands, and we'll defend it vigorously in any forum, at any time.

    (And, just for the record, our customers really *do* hate amp knobs on Gibson archtops. Nothing says 'cheesy '70's Norlin junk' like black witch hat knobs, which is why the company themselves ditched them for good, just as soon as they decided that a pleasant traditional appearance was actually an important feature on very expensive guitars. And don't forget the new owner can always put them back on if they want. We'll bet you a beer they never do.)

    So thanks for taking the time, end of rant. Stay in touch.

    Best Wishes,

    Joe Vinikow
    archtop.com

  6. #130

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    I haven't bought or sold a guitar through Joe, but I once sent him a vintage Gibson tailpiece to have the broken hinge repaired. Weeks later I mounted the tailpiece on the guitar, but several days later the repair broke again. Joe readily agreed to have the repair done again at no charge. This time it was successful and has held fast for several years. I don't think Joe had a great profit from this transaction, but he built a lot of goodwill.

  7. #131

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    Im sorry if I came off being Pissy or bossy on this. I am the last person to ask people to get back on topic. I am the #1 violator. Im sorry guys.

    Joe DeNisco

  8. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by archtops
    Nothing says 'cheesy '70's Norlin junk'
    I'm hoping you don't really feel that way about the 1975 L-5CN you sold to me. It was listed as a '70-'72, but the tailpiece has no Varitone hole (a post '73 phenomenon). I happened to find a Les Paul with a serial number about 10 digits away, and the pots on that guitar dated to 1975, so that's what I'm calling it.

    The ad said there was a Kalamazoo label inside the f hole - but my guitar has no label at all. That's copy/paste working against you. Not a big deal of course, but it was misinformation nonetheless.

    While I now love this guitar, it had fret, nut, and fingerboard issues that prevented it from being as silky perfect as it should have been for the website description (and the top dollar I paid). I had to spend a few hundred to make that right. It wasn't optional or bogus or made up... it was real. I can't prove it. But this was a dream "I gotta have it" guitar for me, yet I was on the verge of selling it when I took a chance on the repair. Fortunately, it was a night and day difference.

    I never reported any of this, and that's my fault - but the general sense that archtop.com is not very understanding about returns is the reason I didn't. Please at least be aware that the sentiment is out there, despite the many glowing reviews and happy customers that are also out there.

    Respectfully...
    Last edited by rpguitar; 01-06-2016 at 05:56 PM.

  9. #133

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    Joe, Did you approach the seller and tell him what you were doing before you did it? It think that's the issue here.
    And, if you take the position of being flexible on waiving the 20% restocking fee when the seller did try reaching you within that time period, are you open to refunding him the restocking fee that you took from him?

    Joe DeNisco

    Quote Originally Posted by archtops
    Thanks for helping set the record straight on the '$200 knob' urban legend. This sort of toxic myth can blow up very quickly on the web, as some earlier comments on this thread have amply demonstrated.

    But we will have to differ that any of the steps required to set this guitar in order were 'unnecessary' in any way. To be clear: the guitar arrived with a cheap, flimsy aftermarket pickguard clearly wrong for the model, which we replaced with a sturdy custom made guard with vintage correct specs, properly antiqued to match the original binding. (And we replaced it at our cost, with no markup.) It also needed strings, a complete setup, and cleaning, among other things.

    As one can clearly see from earlier comments in this thread, vintage customers care passionately about the tiniest of such details, and won't hesitate to subject any instrument to the most microscopic scrutiny. If the most incidental item isn't exactly right, you can bet we're going to hear about it, and plenty. And these are precisely the details that make the difference between a successful sale and a return, which is bad for both the purchaser and the consigner. And finally, these 'unnecessary' details repay themselves many times over in added value at the time of sale, in a market where too many retailers won't even change a rusty set of strings.

    The bottom line was we sold this instrument (a peculiar custom piece with an extremely short scale, a tough sell in any scenario) for top dollar, in very short order. And if we recall correctly, this item had languished unsold elsewhere for quite some time. As we've stated earlier, if a seller prefers to have their luthier bring the instrument up to specs themselves, more power to them, and less work for us. But no one can expend the labor and materials that any professional repair person would charge, and simply write them off altogether. And while we're wiling to absorb the costs ourselves for as long as it takes to sell the instrument (a service we believe is unique in the vintage market) at some point we simply do have to recoup our actual costs for labor and materials.

    That said, if there was a failure of communication in this regard, we sincerely apologize: there's always room for improvement here, and we take feedback from our valued customers very seriously. But we'll never apologize for our commitment to deliver the most meticulously restored and most highly playable instruments that we possibly can. It's a reputation we've fostered diligently over two decades, with happy customers now numbering in the thousands, and we'll defend it vigorously in any forum, at any time.

    (And, just for the record, our customers really *do* hate amp knobs on Gibson archtops. Nothing says 'cheesy '70's Norlin junk' like black witch hat knobs, which is why the company themselves ditched them for good, just as soon as they decided that a pleasant traditional appearance was actually an important feature on very expensive guitars. And don't forget the new owner can always put them back on if they want. We'll bet you a beer they never do.)

    So thanks for taking the time, end of rant. Stay in touch.

    Best Wishes,

    Joe Vinikow
    archtop.com

  10. #134

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    "But we will have to differ that any of the steps required to set this guitar in order were 'unnecessary' in any way. To be clear: the guitar arrived with a cheap, flimsy aftermarket pickguard clearly wrong for the model, which we replaced with a sturdy custom made guard with vintage correct specs, properly antiqued to match the original binding. (And we replaced it at our cost, with no markup.) It also needed strings, a complete setup, and cleaning, among other things."

    I have to disagree, and to be clear for the last time, I sent the guitar w/ new strings, cleaned the guitar and set it up perfectly. I also emailed before the sale stating that I performed these tasks to remove any possibility of being charged for these tasks.

    your ad even mentioned that the guitar "has been impeccably cared for, as befits an instrument of its distinguished pedigree" and "remains in immaculate showroom condition, free of pick, buckle, thumb or fingerboard wear"


    "(And, just for the record, our customers really *do* hate amp knobs on Gibson archtops. Nothing says 'cheesy '70's Norlin junk' like black witch hat knobs, which is why the company themselves ditched them for good, just as soon as they decided that a pleasant traditional appearance was actually an important feature on very expensive guitars. And don't forget the new owner can always put them back on if they want. We'll bet you a beer they never do.)"

    and once again, whether you or anyone else dislikes the original equipment that came w/the guitar is pointless and irrelevant. I'm aware that many people dislike them, but if a customer truly hates any original factory equipment, they are welcome to change them after purchasing @ their expense, not mine, and not w/out my approval.

  11. #135

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    To rpguitar: Thanks for your note, and we’re glad you were finally able to date your L-5 more accurately. As we all know, Gibson Norlin-era serial numbers between 1970 and 1975 are notoriously redundant, making positive dating on these instruments a challenge, even with the most accurate numbers currently available. As to the setup, we do regret if it was not entirely to your expectations. While we likely spend more effort to provide a high-precision setup than most other retailers, we acknowledge that individual players may have widely varying requirements, and that instruments may require additional dialing-in of setups post-purchase to suit specific needs and tastes.

    As to our return policy, it has been consistent, and exceedingly flexible from the very beginning. We accept returns for any reason, or no reason at all, and we refund the purchase price promptly upon return of the instrument. In order to protect our consigners, we do require that customer make a return request within 48 hours of actually opening their parcel and inspecting the instrument. Whether by phone or email, this may be done at any time of night or day, weekdays or weekends, and the approval period stays open until we are actually able to reach back to the customer. We don’t play ‘gotcha’ with time limits, and we have always been happy to extend an approval to accommodate a purchaser’s appointment with a local luthier for inspection. We’ve always taken pride in having a clear, generous and hassle-free return system, and hearing of any perception otherwise would certainly be a surprise to us.

    To Joe DeNisco: Thanks for your question, and we still remain puzzled by this ‘20% restocking’ claim. We have never charged restocking fees on instrument returns, and cannot recall any instance where we have done so. (The only scenario we can imagine for any such charge might be if an instrument were somehow returned with uninsured damage.) We’re still awaiting contact from the individual who made this assertion, so we can try to reconstruct any circumstances that might substantiate such a claim. We have yet to hear back from them, and remain eager to set the record straight in this matter once and for all.

    To wintermoon: If you sincerely believe any of our prep charges failed to add value to the sales price of your instrument, or failed to expedite its sale in a speedy fashion, please contact us directly and we will arrange for a refund accordingly. Our goal is 100% customer satisfaction: full stop, end of story.

    With many thanks again for your kind and informative comments, I remain

    Yours Sincerely,

    Joe Vinikow
    archtop.com

  12. #136

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    Joe V,

    It was me Vince Kowski one of your most valuable customers for the last 15 years that you charged the 20% to. It was about 5 years ago on a X700 that I paid $3495 for. I no longer have the receipt to prove it but after that happened as you noticed I only sell guitars with you now. You have my mailing address if you want to make it right. I am sure you remember that I was not happy. In fact after that incident I didn't talk to you anymore. Since that happened I have only communicated with you via email. You also know that I have always left very positive remarks on your website regarding our business transactions. The X700 was the one bitter pill. Every other transaction was a pleasure to do with you.

    Sincerely, Vince Kowski

  13. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by archtops

    To wintermoon: If you sincerely believe any of our prep charges failed to add value to the sales price of your instrument, or failed to expedite its sale in a speedy fashion, please contact us directly and we will arrange for a refund accordingly. Our goal is 100% customer satisfaction: full stop, end of story.


    Yours Sincerely,

    Joe Vinikow
    archtop.com
    To my understanding, his primary complaint has to do with you having done the modifications WITHOUT his knowledge and/or consent. It's HIS guitar until it's sold. Any changes you deem necessary in order to bring the guitar up to spec MUST be approved by him.

  14. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by archtops
    ...we acknowledge that individual players may have widely varying requirements, and that instruments may require additional dialing-in of setups post-purchase to suit specific needs and tastes.
    Sure. This was a re-fret, new nut, and surgical fingerboard planing to compensate for a sloping issue that could not be dialed out. Those are out of bounds for "setup."

    Anyway I do thank you, Joe, for being here and addressing the issues in this thread personally.

  15. #139

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    Vince, Thanks for getting in touch. We did find your invoice from 2008, and it does show a restocking charge of 10% on this instrument. As our email records are incomplete for this period, we can't tell exactly why this charge was assessed, as it is quite unusual here. As there's no way we can clear this up conclusively without documentation at this late date, we'll be happy to issue you a refund for the balance, minus only the shipping costs.

    Please email us directly at info@archtop.com, and we'll forward you a copy of the original invoice as well. Best, -jv

  16. #140

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    Thank you very much Joe.

  17. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkfan
    To my understanding, his primary complaint has to do with you having done the modifications WITHOUT his knowledge and/or consent. It's HIS guitar until it's sold. Any changes you deem necessary in order to bring the guitar up to spec MUST be approved by him.
    I agree.

    I'd like to see how he answers this.

  18. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by edh
    I agree.

    I'd like to see how he answers this.
    Me too!

    But, so far, it's "all quiet on the western front..."

  19. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by edh
    I agree.

    I'd like to see how he answers this.

    guys, he posted here and said he'd refund the money so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
    it's only right, imo, and we'll see how it goes.
    all I wanted was to be treated fairly from the beginning w/no surprises.

  20. #144

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    Thanks again for your kind comments. As a Mom and Pop business, we have always tried our best to get our consigner's instruments up on the web as quickly as possible, and always in the very best possible condition. Through the years, we've had the very good fortune to have had as about much business as we can handle, and sometimes a little bit more. While it's been a good problem to have, this volume of traffic has sometimes meant that on occasion, our communications haven't always been as good as we might have liked.

    When this has been the case, we've tried our best to set the record straight, and more importantly, to make sure we set things right with our valued customers. After we had a chance to review our records, some from many years ago, we've issued refunds as appropriate, to ensure that our customers always know that they will be treated fairly here.

    Once again, we'd like to thank all concerned for keeping the conversation productive and amiable, and look forward to continued good relations in the future.

    Best Wishes,

    Joe Vinikow
    archtop.com

  21. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by archtops
    Thanks again for your kind comments. As a Mom and Pop business, we have always tried our best to get our consigner's instruments up on the web as quickly as possible, and always in the very best possible condition. Through the years, we've had the very good fortune to have had as about much business as we can handle, and sometimes a little bit more. While it's been a good problem to have, this volume of traffic has sometimes meant that on occasion, our communications haven't always been as good as we might have liked.

    When this has been the case, we've tried our best to set the record straight, and more importantly, to make sure we set things right with our valued customers. After we had a chance to review our records, some from many years ago, we've issued refunds as appropriate, to ensure that our customers always know that they will be treated fairly here.

    Once again, we'd like to thank all concerned for keeping the conversation productive and amiable, and look forward to continued good relations in the future.

    Best Wishes,

    Joe Vinikow
    archtop.com
    That's a stand-up guy talking. Few vendors would have come on a forum and been as forthcoming. If I ever get to the point of buying a vintage arch top, you're going to be hearing from me.

  22. #146

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    Joe V just contacted me and said he is sending me a check to make my 1 bad experience with him 100% right so I must say he is a man of his word. I never said he was dishonest just 1 bad transaction. Now I must say that all the transactions I have done with archtop.com over the years have been 100% positive.

  23. #147

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    I remain a skeptic and believe it took a public lashing on a very relevant forum for Joe V to "make things right." Buyer beware.

  24. #148

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    It's always good when misunderstandings are addressed properly by a store owner. My feeling is even if it costs you some loss profit up front, you'll usually end up making it up many times over in the long run. A great example of this is Dave Rogers at Dave's Guitar LaCrosse , Wisconsin. I've seen him personally lose $ in a deal w/ a customer over the phone on a guitar deal. I always liked him and felt he was honest, but this really proved it to me as a bystander.

    My only interactions w/ Joe Vinakow have been mostly positive over the phone. But I will say he wouldn't answer ?'s I had reguarding neck specs in several emails I had sent. Maybe this gets rid of tire kickers, but it also got rid of me.
    I do have friends who have had very good transactions w/ Archtop.com and seem to be very satisfied.

    Again I think archtop guitars is a rather small and specialized market in general. And most players,collectors and dealers have long time repeat customers. So it's only in their interests to make sure the customer comes first, even if you lose out a little some times.

  25. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Joe V,

    It was me Vince Kowski one of your most valuable customers for the last 15 years that you charged the 20% to. It was about 5 years ago on a X700 that I paid $3495 for. I no longer have the receipt to prove it but after that happened as you noticed I only sell guitars with you now. You have my mailing address if you want to make it right. I am sure you remember that I was not happy. In fact after that incident I didn't talk to you anymore. Since that happened I have only communicated with you via email. You also know that I have always left very positive remarks on your website regarding our business transactions. The X700 was the one bitter pill. Every other transaction was a pleasure to do with you.

    Sincerely, Vince Kowski
    Quote Originally Posted by Bebop Tom
    I remain a skeptic and believe it took a public lashing on a very relevant forum for Joe V to "make things right." Buyer beware.

    Precisely!

    If you look at Vinny's issue alone, it seems to have taken Joe V five years, and a threat to his reputation on a large, public forum, to make things right. That, to me, is not a reflection of professional, customer-centered conduct.

  26. #150

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    a friend of mine purchased a guitar from a certain web dealer, and it had an issues that would have been a deal breaker for me. he kept it, but i wouldn't have. my understanding is that the issue was not mentioned in the advert, but i can't be certain that was true. if true, it seems unconscionable to me that the defect was not mentioned up front.

    just one of the reasons that i never buy used stuff.