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  1. #1

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    Any thoughts on what this might be?

    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-434735979-jpg

  2.  

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  3. #2

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    That looks Japanese Italian, i.e., Ibanez Salvador Rafael Calace. That tailpiece and the holes are an indicator.

  4. #3

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    Interesting, I didn't know such a beast existed. I was considering picking it up as a cheap fix-up project, but if it is just complete rubbish to begin with, I will pass.

    You don't happen to have any more info or experience with these?

  5. #4

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    I was going to suggest something similar when you first posted and held off initially because mine is a 'read between the lines' attribution. But skykomishone has offered a couple of starting points.

    My first thought was also a Spanish/Italian-made 'pick guitar' (an archtop parlor guitar) sold to Japan.

    The soundholes look more Italian/Japanese and the tailpiece looks like a cross between one from a flamenco guitar and one from a mandolin. The two inputs I have on skykomishone's comments are:

    Ibanez as a 'brand' was started when a trading company in Japan called Hoshino Gakki (Hoshino Musical Instruments) imported guitars into Japan made by the workshop of former Spanish luthier Salvador Ibanez in the late 1920s. His sons (Salvador Ibanez had passed away years earlier) sold the company to someone else a few years after Hoshino Gakki started importing them and Hoshino Gakki bought the naming rights and made its own guitars in Japan starting in the mid-30s. When imported and early in the Japan-made process, the Japan-made guitars were named Ibanez Salvador then later just Ibanez.

    Raffaelle Calace was a Neapolitan mandolin/lute (liute cantabile) player. He did more to promote the mandolin in Japan than most anyone from what I have read. He went to Japan in the late 19th century early 20th century in order to promote the mandolin as an instrument, and Japan loved him for it. RC also was a luthier, composer for mandolin, wrote books - one in German on mandolin method (and in the Meiji Restoration in the late 19th century and early 20th century, Japan 'imported' its new schooling/learning system from Germany). Japan imported a lot of Calace mandolins, and eventually several local instrument makers started making them. Suzuki - of violin fame - made mandolins using the Calace name from the 1920s or 30s onward.

    They also started making guitars at the Suzuki Violin Company (eventually Suzuki split into two companies (Suzuki Violin Company, and Kiso Suzuki Violin Company IIRC)) and the soundholes look like Suzuki's soundholes, but the main part is more elegant and thinner. Suzuki's were almost always thicker and stubbier.

    If you want to take a look at Suzuki soundholes, google the following for images "スズキ ピック ギター", or "鈴木 ピック ギター", or if you use "Suzuki archtop guitar" that will get you some (but not as many as copy pasting the Japanese into your browser will). Please do not copy the quotation marks - just the contents.

    Based on the difference in the sound hole shape, I am going to venture a guess that this was an inexpensive guitar made in Europe for export, or a guitar made in Japan by someone trying to copy Suzuki. I am a trifle surprised by the existence of binding because many of the lower-end guitars did not have it until later.

    If made in Japan, the tailpiece would point it to being a very early guitar (late 1920s to early 1930s), or a slightly lower-end guitar, because by the 40s, Suzuki was copying Gibson tailpieces for the most part. If made in Europe, I'd probably point to the same conclusion but I must admit the tailpiece is more ornate (and looks stronger, and from the picture it looks like it might have some nickel content) which tells me it is was not horrible as made (if the TP is original, and no reason to think not). The bakelite and lack of height on the fingerboard suggests to me it was lower-end and later (40s?). And my first gut guess would point more to Europe-made than Japanese. But possibly made for the Japanese market.
    Last edited by travisty; 12-27-2015 at 01:21 PM.

  6. #5

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    Wow, thanks for the info travisty! Some Google imaging with the search terms you provided produced some interesting results. The f holes on the Suzukis (and the Calaces for that matter) are similar -- e.g., the separated end-circles -- but a slightly different shapes than on the Axe In Question.

    I think the 10th fret markers also indicate a European origin; all of the Suzukis I've found seem to have 9th fret markers (but maybe the earlier ones had the European 10th).

    The whole thing may be a moot point as the auction may climb above what I would consider paying for an old fixer-upper. We will know later today, though.

  7. #6

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    Agree.
    The biggest difference for me between Suzuki and The Axe In Question is the shape of the f-holes.

    The rest is surmountable. A fair number of Suzuki guitars early on (i.e. pre-1960s) had 10th fret markers - not 9th.
    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-kisosuzuki3-jpgVintage Euro Archtop ID-kisosuzuki2-jpgVintage Euro Archtop ID-kisosuzuki1-jpg


    The guitar in the link here (????????????????????????hapstore????) is a "Nagoya Calace" (i.e. a Calace made in Japan (I believe 'Nagoya Calace' brand guitars were made in Nagoya at Kiso Suzuki) from the late 40s early 50s. There is a similarity in the tailpiece construction to TAIQ, if not the f-holes.

    It also has a 10th fret and a lot of bakelite.

    If Japanese, it fits into that early 1950s period when Japan had very little ebony or rosewood available but a strong desire by a certain group of young people to "fit in" with a western aesthetic and adopt the accoutrements of western 'slightly outsider' culture. Popular films and literature at the time saw a huge onslaught of stories where Japan both fit into but did not fit into a western stereotype, with "hip" and "edgy" characters adopting a 'surfer-cool' attitude and accoutrements (shirts, surfboards, possibly slicked back hair, a tan, and very, very occasionally the semblance of a hot rod, or at least an American car - which almost by definition at the time put you in the category of 'do-nothing son of a wealthy and politically connected person'). Usually the hip/cool/edgy guy saw the errors of his ways and cut his hair, got a suit, and decided to work at his father's company but starting from the ground floor, thus winning the affections of the girl. Either that or the girl fell for the guy who did and surfer dude didn't win the girl.

  8. #7

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    Forgive the way the link looks above. It really is OK. It is a Japanese language blog hosting service (like wordpress) and the title seems to have gone wonky because of a font issue.

    It is a legit website - it is the blog for a 'hipster store' in rural Hokkaido called 'hapstore' run by a a group of rockabilly guys who appear to aspire to 1940s rockabilly badness.

    www.hapstore.com and the gallery button will get you to their 'style'

  9. #8

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    I gave it an honest shot, but auction went too high and I had to let this one go. Too bad, it could have been a cool little project. A lot of old, beat-up German archtops crop up around these part though, so this certainly won't be my last opportunity.

    I've definitely learned a few new things in this thread, however. Thanks for going above and beyond on this one, travisty!

    And skykomishone, thanks for the initial clue. Your Calace can reign without competition for a while longer.

  10. #9

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    I believe, after finding a scan of an old Ibanez catalog, that
    1) the guitar is likely Japanese
    2) I may have to stand corrected on the maker of Calace guitars in Japan.

    It appears that the Japan brand of Calace may have been produced by Ibanez/HoshinoGakki (which is also in Nagoya), not Kiso Suzuki (though I have Japanese documentation telling me it is Suzuki).

    I am perplexed.

    However, the one thing which makes this scan relevant to the The Axe In Question which Jehu did NOT end up buying is the fact that it shows a guitar (NO. 7 bottom left quadrant) with the same tailpiece as The Axe In Question. And a bunch of others with celluloid decoration.

    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-ibanez_calace_catalog1950-jpg


    Hmmmm....

  11. #10

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    One of the things my luthier told me about mine is that the Italians ruled when it came to the plastics in those early days. The bindings on mine are absolutely solid and gorgeous, no rot or deterioration of any kind. They used it quite extensively, including the fretboard. Incredibly the epitome of art deco from the era. Mine was one of the first of only a few initial Naples built Calace guitars. Vintage Euro Archtop ID-dsc_4428-jpg

    It's pretty special. The label says 1938, not '36. The guitar is absolutely solid.

  12. #11

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    I think you're on to something there, travisty -- that definitely appears to be the same tailpiece! And the headstock design on that one is similar as well. Ah well, it will remain a mystery (at least until the guitar pops up for sale again).

    You're a lucky man, skykomishone.

  13. #12

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    Hi there, I was looking for some information about my guitar. It looks like I own a guitar simular as yoursVintage Euro Archtop ID-image-jpgVintage Euro Archtop ID-image-jpgVintage Euro Archtop ID-image-jpg

  14. #13

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    Very interesting. The cutaway can help date it somewhat. Definitely Japanese copy, since it says so. That is a rare bird. Can you read a serial and/or model number? From the pic, I can't see them. Somehow date it.

    I'm really starting to like this thread. We're Digging into some history here on Ibanez and it's Italian influences. The Japanese loved Calace. The old man in the late 1800's was quite the mandolin player and luthier from Naples, and wrote concert works and toured the world. They made only a few archtops in Naples from what I understand, including mine. There is a Calace website that has some of the history. The tailpiece looks similar to the one on my guitar. The binding is interesting also.

  15. #14

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    Thanks for your reply. The serial number is 2020.

  16. #15

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    It's a Ibanez Century

  17. #16

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    These are pics of a old (1950's ??) IbanezSalvadore (Rafaelle Calace signature) Model 2000.
    It has a REALLY ODD soundhole placement in the low-centre of the top, between the f-holes, and the bridge arches OVER the soundhole.
    I've looked at hundreds of pictures in this and other forums (including Catalogues from that time period) and have not seen another like it.
    Any ideas and info would be appreciated.
    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-p1010001-jpgVintage Euro Archtop ID-p1010002-jpgVintage Euro Archtop ID-p1010003-jpg

  18. #17

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    After taking a good look at the inside of this instrument, it is apparent that the central soundhole was NOT ORIGINAL. It has been cut out of the original archtop. The work was well done, but WHY?
    Whether this modification was done to get better sound, who knows.
    The issue now is what and how much to do to 'fix it' so it will once again be playable.
    It looks like it was originally 'acoustic' only, as there are no signs of pickups, wiring or jacks, so my intention will be to leave it that way.
    What I'm thinking of is a custom 'Lutehole' cover, and probably making some violin-like soundposts to be added internally between the braces to give the top some support, as the bridge location sits right across the 'hole'.
    Although 'early' (likely 1950's Japanese), and probably relatively 'rare', I don't think this is worth spending a fortune to rebuild. None of the finish points to this being an 'upmarket' instrument.

  19. #18

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    Sure looks like an Ibanez, alright. Cool.

  20. #19
    I believe it’s a Melody Guitar from the mid to late 30’s. I had one identical to this one but it was burnt in a house fire in 2017. The only thing that remained was the tailpiece.

  21. #20

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    Hi there, I was looking for information about my guitar.

    According to the label in the guitar it is an Ibanez model 2020-J. The guitar and case are original, except for the pickguard on the guitar. It is in my possession for a while. The original pickguard is broken and is kept in the case. The previous owner tried to glue it but had it replaced anyway.

    Does anyone know what year this guitar is, and who Jarov's Mecheline is?

    I intend to sell my guitar. Which auction site would you recommend?
    Attached Images Attached Images Vintage Euro Archtop ID-staand-standaard-_raw2962-kopie-jpg Vintage Euro Archtop ID-ibanez_salvador-1952-sticker-1-kopie-jpg Vintage Euro Archtop ID-naam-links-_raw2968-kopie-jpg 
    Last edited by JOBL; 08-01-2021 at 07:17 AM.

  22. #21
    It’s a Melody!

    The second last pic is of me playing the parlour guitar of my Melody.

    The second picture was taken one day before the entire contents of that room, including my beautiful Melody guitar, were cremated in a house fire in 2017.

    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-a104bcf2-704a-48b7-b317-948ff3a1e19e-jpeg

    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-6cab013c-fa9f-4805-a889-03643094cdf0-jpeg

    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-8ca26798-4ae4-42d1-8e2f-72c5033baab0-jpeg

    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-f6b1833a-8927-40e6-8848-f3f8438402f9-jpeg

    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-d057faa5-1e90-4fa4-8f24-2b2957cb3c96-jpeg

    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-74ae0188-593c-4e68-99f7-f6ff42f83473-jpeg

    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-30b68f67-d5b1-452f-8c60-a11bb62767f5-jpeg

    Vintage Euro Archtop ID-0240fac7-d249-4d94-b2b4-c30d9f496bf6-jpeg

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoelCurrie
    The issue now is what and how much to do to 'fix it' so it will once again be playable.
    Retrofit a biscuit resonator cone?
    (If you can find or custom-order a large enough cone!)

    The headstock in the OP photos looks German to me, btw.

  24. #23

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    I lost my Melody in a house fire in 2017. So hard to find.

    So if you wanna get rid of it, I’m your gal!

    cheers ‘hel..

  25. #24

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    That is sad about the fire. Fires suck.

    We had a fire at my parent’s house a year after I left for college. Destroyed all my old (now collectible) toys and damaged my comic books. I still have my 3/4 size beginner guitar, with some smoke damage, but my full-size Teisco has disappeared.

    Looks like you lost more instruments than the Melody. I hope you have been able to get some new instruments.