The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Guido,

    I have owned 3 Polytones with the sonic circuit. I disagree with many about the tone, if you do not use the sonic circuit, they sound pretty much the same as the older models, but I do agree about their unreliability. I had a reverb go out in one ( a cheap fix), a speaker go out in another ( an impossible fix to OEM specs as they are no longer made) and a bridge recifier go out in one (a very expensive fix).

    They are wonderful amps, just not the most reliable.

    If you like the sound of the one you are thinking about and are okay with the price, go for it. Just be aware of the possiblity and expense of a breakdown.

    Cheers,

    Marc

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  3. #27

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    I have a sonic circuit MB III, it was at least 10 years old when I got it about 10 years ago. Still works fine.

    Biggest issue with the sonic circuit is it doesn't sound very good. So it doesn't get used.

    Basically, with Polytones, there's those that will work forever and those that never worked.

  4. #28

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    I don't know of any problems other than the reverb. I use these amps all the time at the Jazzschool in Berkeley CA, they always work and they sound great. I like the later polytone amps better than the early ones with the stacked controls because they're easier to use (when adjusting the stacked controls often the middle one turns when you only want to turn the outside one or vise-versa). For playing jazz on an archtop guitar these amps are super convenient, do a good job and have less of a feedback problem than open back amps such as Fenders.

  5. #29

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    Few data point I can share.

    In my experience, the spring reverb broke on mine. It is easily replaceable with out soldiering, cost about $30USD.
    The newer Polytone use a speaker with bigger magnet which is made in China. The older one use an Eminence custom speakers. I have both. The older amp was bought as a Cab. I only use the speaker. The amp works for about 5 minutes and the fuse will burn. In my research, it is likely cause by old caps.

    Sound wise, very similar. I felt the Eminence speaker is a bit more crispy and less bassy.

    After getting the sonic circuit, I don't care that much about it. 99% of the time I use the normal channel.

    I also felt the match between the guitar and the polytone is very important. All my guitars sound very different on this amp.
    If possible, try it before you buy.

    If you are looking for a true traditional jazz amp, do consider Fender Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb.
    If you like a darker muddier sound, Polytone maybe for you.
    I also have a Mega Brute (8" speaker). Using it to drive the 12" Polytone Cab sound the same as a Mini Brute II.
    The 8" speaker is not as Muddy as the 12".

    Note: when I say muddy, it may not be a bad thing. It is THE SOUND.

    Good luck and enjoy every moment of Jazz guitar playing!

  6. #30

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    Polytones with a mid eq control don't sound like the classic polytones ime.



    the classic diamond tolex ones are so simple, not to mention the "lemons" all hit the dumpster 20 years ago. Any your likely to find in the wild are proven reliable. Put a couple bucks into them and you're good for another 25 years.

    These polys are very easy to repair.

    Newer ones were not constructed as robustly, plus more stuff to go wrong, and that mid control....

  7. #31

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    The ones with sonic circuit don't sound as good as the previous ones. Regarding the price, as Jorge said, 500€ for a Polytone in Europe is the average price

    Btw I'm selling my Polytone Megabrute, just in case you're interested

  8. #32

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    Sound is matter of taste of course, but I own a Polytone Mini Brute 2 and cant find nothing wrong with it. Btw it takes pedals very well IMHO


  9. #33

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    I think the point here is that the "Minibrute II" has at least 2 productions. The more recent have the "Sonic EQ" that many jazz players think is a serious step down from the classic tone that made so many of us lovers of the Polytone Minibrute. So much of what makes the Polytone a great amp is its closeness to the sound of the great players of the 60's and 70's. I heard that the Sonic EQ is an attempt at a more modern approach, and that people who love the classic sound of the Polytopes don't like the Sonic EQ version.

    I have the older Minibrute II and love it, though I never use the overdrive channel, just the clean. The effects loop also has a gain control, which is nice for inputting practice/background tracks because you can control the volume at the amp without having to change the device from which you're playing.

    So we need, as usual, to be precise about which iteration(s) of particular products we're discussing.

    If I'm off base here, someone please set me straight because I have no direct experience with the "Sonic EQ" versions of these amps.

  10. #34

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    I think you are off base. I have owned three sonic circuit mini brutes (2000's) and three earlier mini brutes (70's-80's). Not much difference in sound (so long as you are not using the sonic circuit, which was switchable).

    IMO, Polytones sound great, but are heavy compared to more modern alternatives and are unreliable. Now that they are defunct, original parts are hard to come by.

    There were no better choices in the 70's for a jazz oriented solid state amp that was portable. Today there are many options.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I think you are off base. I have owned three sonic circuit mini brutes (2000's) and three earlier mini brutes (70's-80's). Not much difference in sound (so long as you are not using the sonic circuit, which was switchable).

    IMO, Polytones sound great, but are heavy compared to more modern alternatives and are unreliable. Now that they are defunct, original parts are hard to come by.

    There were no better choices in the 70's for a jazz oriented solid state amp that was portable. Today there are many options.


    Soooooo not true. Classic polytones have almost nothing in them and are dead easy to repair. Any 35 year old amp will need to see a tech soon. I'd argue polytones are far more reliable and more importantly, proven than anything new on the market.

    How many new modern ss amps will go 35 years with no breakdowns??? Nobody knows, but if you buy a polytone, put two hundred into refurbing it, you'll have an amp good to go another twenty years.


    lasty a good chunk of the polytone Magic comes from the baxandall tone stack. If you're polytone has a mid control, it's not baxandall. Whether you can hear it, I don't know. I know I could, and it bugged the hell out of me.

  12. #36

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    Polytone started using a mid control in the late 80's, way before the sonic circuit (which was a replacement for the overdrive channel ).

    With the mid knob set flat, my ears cannot hear the difference.

    There is some merit in the idea of revitalizing a simple USA made amp for the long haul (kind of like a vintage Nova with a straight six). IMO, much of the Polytone sound came from the 4 ohm Eminence speaker. These are unavailable today. At some point all vintage Polytones will have replacement speakers and will sound......different.

    I bought my first Polytone in 1975 and my last in 2008. I still have the last one (a Mini-brain reissue ).

    I had the pleasure of meeting Tommy Gumina and think all of us in the jazz guitar community owe him a debt of gratitude.

    I wish someone had kept it going after Tommy left us.

  13. #37

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    I've also had a few pre and post-sonic circuit polytones; I hear a difference, although not a great one. If anyone is geeky enough to look at the schematics, like me, you can see why earlier red-knob models might sound a bit different; the circuits and IC's are slightly different. It's all detailed in the various polytone threads on this forum.

    Reliability; I'd say average, for simple SS amps. Repairability; most parts are readily available; one or two are difficult to get but are obtainable with effort. In any event, some modern parts can be easily substituted. The most difficult part to get can be the special square-magnet 4 ( or 3) ohm speaker. The circuits are mostly simple. The bizarre multi-connectors can get corroded and make poor contact, but that's an easy fix. The reverb tanks break eventually, but are replaceable.

    But it's true that there are several modern 'improved polytones'; Hendriksen, Mambo to name a couple. The Polytone was pretty much the only serious SS jazz amp in the 70s, so there was little choice apart from tube amps. The Polytone sounded very different from the usual Fender DRs and TRs, due to the baxandall stack, as pointed out.

    BTW If your Polytone has a middle control, it DOES have a baxandall stack. They all have bax stacks. Just look up the schematics.

  14. #38

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    I've never been able to get ahold of the schematic for the polytones with the mid eq control, I'd like to take a look if you have it. I assumed they were using a typical tmb tonestack.

    As far as a speaker goes, the eminence has a certain charm, but any 4 ohm driver works fine. I even have a mb2 with an aluminum coned pyle speaker. Got it like that, used to belong to a local older jazz player who owned a music store. He could have "borrowed" any speaker he wanted, but that one really sounds great, it opens up the top end in a natural way. Anyway the speaker is 8 ohms, fine for a polytone, worked fine for the last 20 years... I've also tried webers, new eminence, and I'd love to try something from wgs. Point is, they all sound great and work perfectly.

    Best part is compared to modern offerings, they are cheap!!!

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by vintagelove
    I've never been able to get ahold of the schematic for the polytones with the mid eq control, I'd like to take a look if you have it. I assumed they were using a typical tmb tonestack.
    Happy to share a typical schem if you PM me - altho' they are also on the net, if that's easier. I find the bax mid control a big asset, and have fitted a couple to T&B- only red-knob models in the past.

    I agree that speaker swaps can work fine in polytones; I suspect the low-fi, dark sound of the square magnet speaker has a lot to do with the " poly sound", though. Eminence Betas come close-ish.

  16. #40

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    MB II settings? Vol=4, Switch=Brite, Bass=5, Treble=5, Reverb=4

    Closest to MB? Ampeg B12sb

    vs Tube? Lighter, more midrange warmth in Polytone, less airy top end

    you might prefer a more modern SS amp, ie, Evans RE300...but it's finicky to dial in compared to Polytone

  17. #41

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    Hello vintage. I've been searching the net for info on a polytone amp and came across this thread. Question for you and others here: which version of the mini brute II is this?: Polytone Mini Brute II - A Good Choice for Jazz?-polytone-jpg


    I read some folks talking about different versions which are both called mini brute II. That's confusing and kinda sucks in my opinion. There are two different "eqs" w/ different tones? "Sonic EQ," or something? But they're both called mini brute II? Is this correct? confusing. Plus, in the vid, the amp is labeled III. Hmmmm. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance...

  18. #42

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    Unfortunately in Italy three are s few MB II all with normal eq not with sonic circuit
    Without sonic this amp is not for other genre than jazz
    And in General I think t his amp is too dark with normal eq
    I ha ve found a good replacement in "80s Roland Cube 60 chorus
    Listen itbon Tube is very very close to MB for less money

    Inviato dal mio SM-J500FN utilizzando Tapatalk
    Last edited by Guido_59; 06-25-2016 at 03:55 PM.

  19. #43

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    Thanks Guido. Could you tell me if the mini brute I pasted into this thread above has this "sonic circuit," or the "normal" EQ? Or anyone else?

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by jd65
    Hello vintage. I've been searching the net for info on a polytone amp and came across this thread. Question for you and others here: which version of the mini brute II is this?: Polytone Mini Brute II - A Good Choice for Jazz?-polytone-jpg


    I read some folks talking about different versions which are both called mini brute II. That's confusing and kinda sucks in my opinion. There are two different "eqs" w/ different tones? "Sonic EQ," or something? But they're both called mini brute II? Is this correct? confusing. Plus, in the vid, the amp is labeled III. Hmmmm. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance...
    This one does NOT have the Sonic EQ. You'd see the words "Sonic EQ" on the controls.

    The Minibrutes I and II have 12" speaker, III and IV have 15" speaker.

    Then, I think (I might have it confused) Minibrutes I/III have no Reverb, II/IV have reverb.

    The features change over the years for the same model, just like they do for any other product. A Gibson L5ces guitar from the 50's has P90 pickups, from the early 60s, PAF pickups, in the 90's, a later version. All products evolve, and when we are shopping for such products we have to know the history of it to find out what we are getting. If you bought a car from the 1930's it would not have an automatic transmission, but buying a car in 2016 you almost have to ask for a manual transmission if you want that instead. It's just smart shopping.

  21. #45

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    Absolutely. Thanks so much for the response, Lawson. So this one does not have the "sonic eq." Last related questions: Can anyone tell from the pic, or due to its not having that sonic eq, what year it may be from? And from what I've read, I guess some folks think the version WITHOUT the sonic eq has the more "classic" or "traditional" tone. I assume this has been covered ad nauseum in other threads, but I'd appreciate thoughts here. Thanks again, Lawson S.

  22. #46

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    That blue one is from the 90s and souns great. I have 70s, 80s, ans 90s MiniBrutes. They all sound great. They all have baxandall tone stacks, by the way. The blue 90s amp is tough as nails. My favorite is my 70s amp--slight preference for the CTS speakers back then over the Eminence speakers that came by the 80s. Otherwise, it's all good.

  23. #47

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    You see SONIC eq on panel instead oh chi drive and has Red knobs
    The other feauture you can dead in post over mine

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  24. #48

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    In my opinion Polytones sound better than Henriksens. It seems as if Henriksen amps miss some nice high frequencies.
    Btw, I own two Henriksen amps.....
    Last edited by Jazz_175; 06-26-2016 at 01:36 PM.

  25. #49

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    Every opinion id right but we must conder Polytone out of production from many year and of you fine an old amp hai component may have problem in e few time
    So we would consider what you find on modens market
    Henriksen Mambo and other modern
    For me Mambo sound best the Henriksen IMHO

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  26. #50

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    Like my other amps (except for a 90s MB III I use for gigging with bass), my Mini Brutes are all 70s and 80s amps. They are either the fuzzy covered ones (Pre-diamond Tolex), or diamond Tolex versions, all featuring Bass and Treble baxandall tone stacks.

    I have a "fuzzy" MiniBrute II, III, and IV. I also have a Diamond Tolex MB III Extension Cabinet that I use with a Diamond Tolex MiniBrute PA head to create another MB IV. Finally, I have a mid-80s black panel with red line Baby Brute--that may be the best of the lot, although it has Bass, Mid, and Treble.

    The amp that got lost in the shuffle was the old MB II. However, I put the other Polytones into storage and got the II out. Hmm? I had convinced myself that the 8" and the 15" cabinets were much superior. Well, the 12" cabinet of the II is really very, very good. I hadn't paid it much attention, I'm afraid. It sounds super with the PE-180/EL-300 Matsumoku L-5 copy. What a combination.

    Anyone else playing the "II" these days?