DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1000 + 1100 sound comparison

[10course]

So, I found an 1994 Epi Broadway in good condition at the right price. I plan to use it as my "take around" guitar when in chaotic gig or rehearsal conditions. However, the stock floating pickup sounds completely craptastic. I bought a Gretsch G100 floating pickup for it and visually, it looks the same as the stock pickup with wax potting.
I was then introduced to the D'Armond Rhythm Chiefs on a cheap Gretsch New Yorker. It sounded nice for using for early style jazz.
Guild sells these and I ordered an 1100. However, they are out of stock. They said they can get me a 1000 sooner.
The 1000 is like 14.6 Ohms! Higher than most PAF style humbuckers that metal players like.---and I dislike. The 1100 is like 7.6 Ohms which is in the P90 range.
Which one sounds more authentic 1940s sound?

[fws6]

The kOhm reading means nothing. The 1100 is a very classic jazz (single coil) pickup, just comparing the Ohm reading to a metal style humbucker isnt a valid comparison of how it will sound

[sgcim]

I've used a real DeArmond RC1000 and a Guild imitation RC1100, and I much preferred the 1100, because the 1000 had a number of problems:
1) It didn't pick up the high E string as well as it picked up the other strings. I've heard that Guild (the Korean factory) copied the early 1000s they made so well, that they also had this problem!
2) It always had a hum problem.
3) The volume/tone control was a POS that had a cheesy rhythm/lead switch that cut the power in half when you put it on the rhythm setting. The vibrations would also cause the screws to come loose on the mount behind the bridge.
The 1/4 inch jack would always fall out in the middle of a gig.

So far, no problems with the Guild 1100...

[Para]

@10course you can get the Rhythm Chief 1100 on Ebay for $149.99. I have both 1000s and 1100s I find the 1100 sounds more mellow and smoother closer to a humbucker sound.

[Doctor Jeff]

I recently got an RC1000 for the simple reason that the nickel finish goes better with my vintage Harmony guitar. I have not installed it yet, so can't comment on how it sounds.

It does look like a very well-made piece of equipment. The reissues do not come with the V/T controls. I got a Schaller thumbwheel control and a Tapastring 1/8" endpin jack so I would not have to drill into the guitar any more than necessary.

We'll see how balanced the sound is and whether I would really want to be able to adjust the pole piece height in a week or so...

[Woody Sound]

I had an original 1000 on my old L4C. It sounded great, if a tad dark. I had vol/tone on the pg.

[10course]

A broad range of answers. Thank you-everyone.
@fws6: that must be the case. The reason this puzzled me was from my experience with single coil Stratocaster and p90 pickups---the higher the Ohms, the higher the output, but the darker the sound, and attenuated high frequencies.

@sgcim: I will eliminate the jack and tone pot problem by doing a pickguard pot mount going to the guitars stock mounted
jack, but the hum could be a deal breaker for me. Any pickup that hums more than a Strat or P90 is out of the question for me.

@para: They were $25 less from Guild, but you are correct, ebay would be faster. The sound is opposite of what I expected to hear, but assuming the 1000 was an earlier design, it does make sense.

@Doctor Jeff: I'm interested in your evaluation when you're done!

@Woody Sound: any hum trouble?

[Woody Sound]

@Woody Sound: any hum trouble?

None. And I used it a lot in a small teaching room with fluorescent lights.

Of course, the usual YMMV disclaimer applies

[Para]

Just fitted this one on an Ibanez AF151 as an experiment, 250k pots with a .225 capacitor, had to make a plate to cover the humbucker rout, there is no hum or noise on either my valve or ss amps it has a nice smooth clear sound far better than the classic 57 it replaced, removing the humbucker has increased the acoustic volume quite a bit. If I keep the pickup on this guitar I will make a new scratchplate for it.

[Jehu]

Hey Dr. Jeff, if you're out there, have you perchance installed the 1000 yet? I'm considering one of these reissues and feedback would be helpful. (Well, feedback wouldn't be, but...)

[Doctor Jeff]

Here's a sneak peak - got the rod mounted on the neck and thumb wheel control on the pick guard, and installed the 1/8" endpin Jack. Ready for soldering...

[10course]

I too have been at work pimping up my new Eastman 805 including the D'armond Rhythm Chief. However, I got the 1100...mostly because it was available from Guild. ---I have a distrust of Ebay ever since I ordered a Gretsch G100 floating pickup from Ebay, and it was different in ohms and sounded different from the one that was actually on my G100.
Anyway, the new Eastman 805 got its fingerboard cut down to 21 frets so that the pickup could be under the 24th fret harmonic. I made the pickguard and installed mini-pots and capacitor, an end pin jack, and am I'll still installing the shell fret markers.
My wife jokes at me about never just buying a guitar without tearing it apart and customizing it. Hey, they don't sell what I want, so I make it what I want.

Note of caution to those who would do the same: the new Eastman finishes are UV cure polyester, and there is no finish under the cut off portion of the fingerboard. I had to hunt down a catalyzed polyester finish to blend the touchup. --not fun

[Doctor Jeff]

I finally got my RC1000 installed. Love the way it looks. The Tapastring 1/8" endpin jack is pretty cool, too.

First thoughts: a lot of extra noise. The EH Humdebugger gets rid of most of it, but still a fair amout of noise related to cables and house wiring. The top string is not as loud as the other strings, no way to adjust. With a little fettling I can get a nice, mellow "vintage" sound. It has a lot of microphonic sound, something between a typical magnetic and a piezo.

It is definitely preferable to the piezo I had installed on the guitar previously, and has a warmer tone than a GFS floater I have installed on a Godin 5th Avenue.

I will have to play with it awhile to get the sound I want. With this guitar, it really fits the vibe I was going for with very minimal modification to the guitar.

[KirkP]

... The top string is not as loud as the other strings, no way to adjust.

I wonder if the top string is out of balance partly because the pickup isn't centered on the neck. I don't see a route in the pickguard for the end of the pickup. That might be required for correct string balance.

[Doctor Jeff]

I wonder if the top string is out of balance partly because the pickup isn't centered on the neck. I don't see a route in the pickguard for the end of the pickup. That might be required for correct string balance.

It's only off-center a mm or so (the picture exaggerates the distance)--I pushed it over so it was centered without any major change in tone. I will figure out a way to move it over a little without breaking the posts trying to bend it into place, or cutting into that pickguard. I could make a copy and route it, I know. I could also make a little block for the top screw and offset it 1-2mm.

[neatomic]

wow 10course, so you really did wind up cutting off the fretboard end...gutsy...good for you!!...anything for that 24th fret harmonic!! hah

good work

doc j that harmony looks killer!!..but yeah you got to get the pup centered better..pickguard copy and cut would prob be best idea

so nice to have these pups available again..kudos to cordoba

cheers

[sgcim]

It's only off-center a mm or so (the picture exaggerates the distance)--I pushed it over so it was centered without any major change in tone. I will figure out a way to move it over a little without breaking the posts trying to bend it into place, or cutting into that pickguard. I could make a copy and route it, I know. I could also make a little block for the top screw and offset it 1-2mm.

You can't say you weren't warned about the problem picking up the E string; the Korean factory copied it so well that they even copied its defects!
I'm glad i bought the 1100 copy; the original RC 1000 used to drive me nuts!

[neatomic]

the model 1000 pup was originated at a time when many archtops were using bronze strings..what we now call 80-20's...these were the strings that d'angelico used...

because they have less magnetic output on the 4 wound strings..than say a steel or pure nickel string..dearmond needed to reduce the higher output of the steel plain e & b strings, by having separate winds...(see below)*

try a 80/20 set on your rc 100 equipped guitar and see if it's not more even..


the 1100 was the next step...allowing polepiece adjusting to match any type string..as electric guitars were moving away from bronze related strings..to steel, monel and pure nickel..all more magnetic


* from http://www.musicpickups.com/Pickups_Design_2.html

The Model 1000 pickup is unique in that it has one coil that was first wound around the pole-pieces for the four lowest strings (G, D, A and E) after which the pole-pieces for the E and B strings were inserted into the coil former. The coils wind was then continued around all six pole-pieces. Less coil turns around the High E and B strings resulted in a weaker signal from those strings. DeArmond referred to this procedure in their literature as their 'Duo Form' method of winding. It was time and labor-intensive.


good vintage setup info..still applies


cheers

[Doctor Jeff]

I made some minor adjustments and got the pickup centered without having to modify the pickguard. It sounds quite a bit better, in fact I'm really digging the sound. Takes a bit of adjustment with the amp as well.

I'm using D'Addario Pure Nickels, which on my other guitars sound pretty mellow, but which are quite bright on this guitar. May they will mellow with age.

Your point about the bronzes makes sense. In fact, I had bronze flats on it before I put on the pickup. I'll give them a try sometime.

[jazzbow]

Hi mates.

Here's a couple of vids from Erik te Kamp, a one time member of this forum.

I'm preferring the 1100 tone.

What do you think?

[jazzbow]

And this too

Nice

[nado64]

What do you think?

I think my next guitar will be probably a godin avenue with a 1100 pickup, maybe in a floating pickup setting, the polepieces are a compulsory choice.

[Flat]

Thanks, jazzbow. Great videos. I am planning to add a DeArmond 1100 reissue to a '45 L7. This was very encouraging to hear.

Anybody have any idea how the guy might have gone about "aging" his DeArmond?

Not sure I would try it myself, though I certainly understand the aesthetic motivation.

[Frank67]

I also prefer the 1100 hands down. The guitar sounds fantastic and the playing was just great. I really enjoyed listening.

[Frank67]

Incidentally, I had a quite similar guitar built recently and put a 1100 on it. I wish I could play like this :-) will record a bit when it is back from being tweaked by the luthier.

btw, what was the amp for the recording?