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And it's never going to hit $127, until someone comes up with a pedal, that nails the Fender sound for $50 or so, or builds a tube amp version for that price....don't think I'll hold my breath on that one.
You know small instrument and amp builders face a dilemma....I'm Joe Haut-Luthier, and in so many years, I'll be gone. IF all my work has been amazing, and I built only extremely high-end models, and if my instruments have been circulated in high-visibility venues, then maybe I'll be given a price premium, if I attract a following. Really small number of guys manage to pull this off...D'Angelico, D'Aquisto, Benedetto, and maybe a few others...Triggs, etc. And it's not that a lot of guys put out substandard stuff, but for one reason or another, only a few makers can command consistently high resale value: Lots of really high-quality stuff goes for 50% when resold...for collectability to take hold, you almost have to be popular enough for someone who doesn't know much about guitars to have heard of them, and "value" them...then you get the collectors who might not even be playing the things, or even know how to play them.
With amps, exotic circuits present a value-inhibiting dilemma---who do you get to work on them, and keep them sounding the way they were supposed to sound? Fender circuits were simple, reliable, stock designs from the RCA catalog, to my knowledge, and they became market dominant...the reissues pretty much do the same thing, so they hold value....lots of really good solid tube designs (Peavey, Ampeg, Bedrock) can be picked up for not much money...some of them require design switchovers from tubes no longer made (7591's)..some of it is just being perceived as not the best or most popular.
Anyway, I suspect you know all this.
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10-19-2015 01:52 PM
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I don't think the brand is being licensed. According to D'Angelico guitars get an encore after 50 years - Fortune John Ferolito, Jr. owns the brand. Ok, so he bought it (at an unpublished price from his father, who bought it from someone, who bought it from someone ...), and there was a price for that, but that's not necessarily the same thing as a "premium" vs other other brands, which also cost something, or creating a brand from scratch. We're all talking in the abstract here so far as I can tell, without any real numbers about how the brand is actually performing or what it cost to spin it up, though. As to pricing, again, look at the advertised prices for particular models -- EX DC vs Eastman T486 vs Peerless Fire Fox(?),for example. They all have pretty big spreads over similar ranges for what look like comparable models to me. The branding that is going on looks to me like trying to differentiate D'A from competitors via a (fictional) connection to John D'A, without necessarily charging more than the competition. The issue is that this same branding also annoys some people, but we don't know what the effect of that annoyance is on the health of the company (or the value of the brand should the current owners choose to sell).
Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
John
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Well reading through this thread, you are certainly doing your best to turn it into an argument lol
I'm not rally sure what your trying to prove or say.
D'angelicos have fallen or are falling out of favour for the exact reasons I told you in my first post. It has nothing to do with what you think personally about their quality.
Never buy new brands, outliers or odd looking guitars if you want a safe investment. And do not tell me D'angelico is not a new brand. The one we're talking about is.
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I own a 2005 SD New Yorker (solid body), Japanese made, an EXL-1 (hollow archtop) and Excel SS (semi-hollow archtop). The latter two could be described as Jazz Boxes, especially the EXL. But the New Yorker is sweeter than my LP standard. Price is always a point for me, but quality is more so. My only criticism is that you can get a "bad build"; I sent back my 1st Excel SS because it had a buzz, the frets were rough and the binding was a little splotchy. The second one was perfect once I set it up to my liking. I've played a "Master Build" USA D'Angelico before. It was sweet, but at 15-20K, the laws of diminishing returns really come into focus. I'm kinda surprised I don't see them more on stage, but I think people like the image of Fender, Gibson and Gretsch better. PS, I snagged my EXL-1 at Musicians Friend "Stupid Deal of the Day" for $800. That's almost $900 off list.
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5 year old necrothread
I know this brand used to be quite an esteemed brand when they were made here. Have they fallen out of favor so to speak? Any one have this particular guitar? I'm curious about the line in general and especially the semis.
That's the quote from the OP 5 years ago. The key is it was not a brand back when John was alive - it was a custom guitar by a craftsman. Now it's a brand. Got nothing to do with quality. If MarcTheSparc got his for more than 50% off, that's the correct course of action. That give pause to those who paid close to full price.
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Originally Posted by MarcTheSparc
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I think the new Korean ones had a burst in popularity that has waned a bit. That's probably what led to GC selling them at close-out prices.
I bought a store demo EXL-1 off Reverb from a small shop. It's heavy, with a very thick finish, but it plays and sounds great. I've had several Epiphones, and it edges them out for quality. Epiphone has cut back on their archtop models, so maybe the trend in general is moving away.
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The D'Angelico guitar brand has been held by a number of different manufacturers over the last 15 to 20 years. It has popped up, flamed out, been resurrected, flamed out again, etc. The ones made by Vestax, which are the only ones I have played personally, were nice playing, good sounding guitars.
As for the pedigree of the brand, according to the book on D'Angelico and D'Aquisto, after John D died his family offered the business to Jimmy D who did not have the money to buy it and went into business with funding from a lawyer. Over time that relationship soured and to get out from under it Jimmy basically just gave everything but some tools to the lawyer and went on his way. He opened his own business under his own name and proceeded ahead to fame but probably not fortune.
Apparently the main moneymaking part of the business in terms of cash flow was the string business, not the luthiery business. When D'Angelico strings were being made after that, that was a business owned by the lawyer.
Here's the supposition: I suspect that the D'Angelico brand-name was owned by the lawyer, who subsequently sold it, and not by John D's family. But I don't know that to be true.
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this is way old thread...if op was worried about korean made d'angelicos!!??...the company has made far more budget oriented guitars since..made in china and indonesia...like squiers and epis
d'angelico brand name means nothing these days..watered down to nothing
unless you have an original nyc made
sad
cheers
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The DA trademark was sold along with the String company (by that lawyer who did get the rights to the name from John D's family) to GHS, a Midwestern String brand. In the 90's, GHS started doing authorized replicas. The Vestax DA's are made in Japan and are still being made there. For awhile, they were imported under license by GHS and sold in the USA. Originally Posted by Cunamara
Then the Ferolito family (Arizona Iced Tea) bought the brand from GHS. They have made many lines in Korea and Indonesia and have also had authorized replicas made by USA luthiers.
Brands change ownership over time. Today Fiat owns Jeep. Shit happens.
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The only relevance any of this ever had was to business types arguing the dollar value of the name. I suppose there is also a marketing discussion on whether the brand would have gained traction without the name. Still, all we care about is the price/performance of the guitars. Which most feel is pretty good. And nobody is confused by the name on the headstock but we all wish it had a different design.
Of course there was that poster in this thread some years back that said he went to a car dealership in 2015 expecting the current Pontiac LeMans to be just like his grandpa's 1968 small block. Umm.. really? He expected that?
(note: 1968 Pontiac LeMans 350 0-60mph was 6.8 seconds. My VW hatchback does it in 4.5 seconds. What does it all mean?)
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To me, they look awesome, but I went to the shop in NYC and must have tried 10-12 of them, and none really seemed great
it didn't help that none of them seemed to be set up professionally..... however, i've liked korean made epiphones much better
If I owned a guitar store, especially one that is basically an advertisement for one brand, I'd set up the guitars to perfection
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What the heck, I'll reanimate this thread. About 1 month ago I decided to look into getting a baritone guitar. I discovered the D'Angelico Deluxe SS maple, which has 2 Seymour Duncan P90's, as opposed to the Cherry which has humbuckers. I got it new for $1500 (list about $2200) with a 30 day trial. It has a 26.75 scale and 16 in radius. I like flat necks and I like this guitar very much. The neck is excellent and the quality of craftsmanship is very good. It sounds great, I like the proprietary Seymour Duncan p90's (called "Great Dane") so much I looked to see if they were available. They are not, I spoke with a tech at Seymour Duncan who didn't even have the specs for it. They have great dynamic range and are very quiet, so quiet I thought they might be manufactured as noiseless. I put La Bella tape wounds on and tuned it to D# where the tension on these strings is perfect and it plays wonderfully with an extremely rich tone. I would put different strings on if I wanted to tune further down.
I sold D'Angelicos at Manny's Music from 1972-74 (MAN do I wish I grabbed at least one) and I have a fabulous 16 in Trenier so I know the difference between top of the line hand made and manufactured....but this guitar is a winner that I will keep forever. Therefor it's resale value and cache' are irrelevant to me, just it's "guitar nature" which its excellent. I understand they are made in the same factory as Duesenbergs and compared to the few Duesy's I have played, this is a better guitar.
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I recently picked up a D’Angelico EX-DC that was made in Korea in 2018. I am extremely happy with this guitar. Top quality all the way around…and tone for days…many tones!
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Correction, I said that the SS deluxe cherry baritone had humbuckers. It has the same P 90s as the maple natural. The cherry is mahogany, laminate rather than maple. D’ Angelico has another baritone called the Atlantic that has the humbucker’s.
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Then try to ask yourself how much you'd expect an unbranded mass-produced guitar-shaped box made of pressed laminate plates with a mass-produced PU to cost? Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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The post you quoted is from 2015. Originally Posted by RJVB
I still feel the same way. I liked the Japanese D'As from around the mid 2000s and the Korean ones from around 2010 or so when all the shops were blowing them out at half price. I'd have liked to grab one for around the $600 mark. You could get the ES shaped ones for $400 or so. But now, when you are hitting over $2,000 US for an Asian guitar, the competition becomes fierce from other similar guitars and from used guitars that are maybe much better.
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Well in fairness you do get a lot of bang for the buck. Same with Eastman, although prices are definitely higher than before.
But as far as expecting a Bespoke Archtop Quality and tone.
I don’t think that’s very realistic, due to all the handwork needed.
I’m sure most of the old Jazz guys who played laminates would have been just fine with these as tools to gig with.
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I feel uncomfortable about these ghost threads, with mostly outdated info and opinions by people who haven't posted for eons or are no longer with us. Why not start a new one? Besides, I think a lot has been said about current D'As in other, more recent threads. The brand has been up for grabs for at least twice. I owned a Vestax NYL-2, which wasn't that much greater (except for the looks) than my Epi Emperor Regent. Many owners suggest that recent builds are good value for the money. What's wrong? The commercialization and tarnishing of a legend, not the product.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, my '01 VDA NYL-2 will never be sold. It plays beautifully and easily, and the neck is extraordinary. It might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it puts a smile on my face every time I see it and play it. That said, I've never played any of the Korean DAs so don't have an opinion of them.
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Yesterday Rich Severson played a D'Angelico Exel on his livestream show - great music, really great music, from a beautiful instrument and with such a nice tone. He also played an old Gibson L4 - this sounded dull in comparison but of course people with still blather on about the solid top being superior and laminates being cheap and nasty. Do these people dismiss all the fine recordings from Joe Pass and many others because they recorded fabulous music on laminate topped guitars?
Are they aware that manufacturing today has moved on immensely and the country of origin is no longer an indicator of quality?
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Funny you reported this story. I have a very nice 1959 L4 with a Dearmond floating pup. Great guitar. If...when I have the time I'll post examples of the Deluxe Baritone compared with the L4. I'll just say that the D'Angelico tone certainly holds up in this company. Different of course, I'm sure some will prefer it, and I would for certain material. Originally Posted by GordonM
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It’s most likely that people are totally aware of that. But it doesn’t always make them willing to buy. When I grew up the guitars I could afford were nice-looking but otherwise horrible Asian copies (although to be fair in those days Fender and Gibson were building junk as well - anyone remember photo-film Strats with finish sprayed over the frets?). A few decades later I suddenly see a venerable name like D’Angelico on import guitars and a lot of effort seems to have gone into appearance, fancy colours and bling bling. It’s sort of a deja-vu to the early 90s and to be honest it puts me off before I even pick one up. They might be fine guitars but it’s just not for me. Reviving a legendary old brand name that’s associated with sweat and wood curls and then transplanting that into a mass-production corporate environment just doesn’t work for me.Are they aware that manufacturing today has moved on immensely and the country of origin is no longer an indicator of quality?
With Eastman it’s somehow different, I’m a fan of that brand. Instead of just reviving an old brand name they take pride in their Asian roots and their workmanship. There’s something about their instruments that’s woody and loving, not corporate or industrial. At the end of the day the current D’Angelicos might be just as good or even better than my two Eastman guitars. But I’m just not tempted.
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Since John d'Angelico got sick in about 1960 and died in about 1964, and since his guitars were always artisan-made, they haven't been made in a long, long time. Originally Posted by West LA Jazz
Apparently the family sold off the rights to the brand name, and the name has been transferred more than once. Like Gibson, Fender, and most (but not all) other guitar makers, the name has little relation to the current ownership of the company. In some cases there's been continuity of manufacturing, in other cases not.
d'Angelico guitars have been made in Asia for some time now. Probably the quality of the brand varied somewhat along the way, sometimes better, sometimes worse. But once John d'A. was out if it, the brand ceased to mean hand-made, artisan guitars.
You should evaluate the guitars in and of themselves, not according to what name is on the headstock.
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While this is the right answer, it's hard to spend enough time with a guitar to really settle in on what you think of it. So you do your best to figure your budget, what's out there, what first hand information you can gather, and hope it works out. Korean D'Angelico's have gone up enough in price where I think the alternatives at that price point (used mostly) would be pretty tempting. Though, in truth, my Excel SS is a very nice guitar (if not terribly resonant) and I would very much like one of their baritone models. Originally Posted by dconeill
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