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Mr Beaumont, I'll be living in River Forest, off Lake Street, about 6 blocks west of Harlem. And you're welcome to come over, heck anyone that would be in that area is welcome to come over.
Fair warning I'll cook for ya and try to make you fat. LOL... There's a reason I'm BigMike. LOL
And that photo I posted of the guitar with the rose on the tailpiece, that is a genuine M. Campellone, my point was look at all the design elements he borrowed. Nobody was crying about that...
As a chef I clearly agree with the person that said that many things INFLUENCE people. The DeMedici family arranged a marriage of their daughter Catheine to a French prince for political reasons. When she arrived in France she brought her entourage of 60 chefs. It was their Mediterranean influences that shaped what became French Cuisine. The French blatantly stole the foundations of Mediterranean cooking and called them their own. Look what great things they did with these influences and ideas when they ran with them...
Anyway Mr. B, I wouldn't let that one copy guitar steer you away from building your own unique guitar via Mr. Wu. And having followed Mr. Wu's work for some time I am blown away by the beauty and shading of his bursts. And I'm not a "burst guy", but doggone they ARE great... You come up with your own unique headstock shape and inlays, your own fingerboard inlays and start talking dollars and cents and I think you will be swayed. They all need a pretty decent setup when you get them but that's par for the course.
Good luck everyone.
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01-31-2016 03:17 PM
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It's not my argument - I tip my hat to Justice Foster in the 1978 case Morning Star Cooperative Society v Express Newspapers Limited, I certainly wouldn't want to take credit for someone else's idea, heh.
Originally Posted by MaxTwang
Good read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_moron_in_a_hurryLast edited by Hammertone; 01-31-2016 at 05:05 PM.
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What was there to comment? That someone, not on this forum, chose to elicit a build with Campellone's name atop the headstock? What else was there to say, it was so obvious.
And now we're to be chastised because we didn't come forth with the appropriate faux outrage as you deem appropriate?
Get off your high horse man!
The problem I have with high and mighty judgmentalist's is - judgment always says more about those doing the judging than those they're judging.
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I can see why some might not like the idea Mr. Wu DID put someone else name on one of his commissioned work and I suspect it is THAT fact that is being criticised, not Mike's or anyone else's legitimately branded commissioned instrument.
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lol, I'm already fat. Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
are you hopefully bringing guitars along?
2bop, I post because I really would like to take the jump, but I can't give my money to someone who would make a counterfeit. I knew yunzhi was, I thought it looked like wu would be pursuing something different.
i have no issue with your guitar or big mikes latest build. My issue is solely with the fakes with the actual name on the headstock.
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That assumes Mr Wu was aware who this M Campellone was. I'm willing to give Mr Wu the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know, and was merely following a customers request. Originally Posted by vinlander
This assumption thing can be taken too far.
First its assumed the build in question was Mike's. Now you're assuming what Mr Wu knew and when he knew it.
What's next?
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Mr B, yes I am bringing along all my guitars, none made in America, including the new commission. I have a decent Fuchs amp, I'm perplexed where to set that up. The building I will be living in is a senior only condo, very strict, very nice place. No animals allowed, not even birds. No kids. So where I put the amp and what times I use it is up in the air right now. I'll be in a corner unit in front, great place. But you can play any of my guitars acoustically. Most are carved arch tops. I have one Ibanez AS103 (335 derivative), a Greco RG800 (a Ric 360 derivative) and the Eastman, Yunzhi and Mr Wu, all made by Mr Wu at different stages of his career... I think you'll enjoy them. Bring your spouse and we'll relax, eat and you can play. Maybe we can make a video of you playing one or two of them to share here. I'd like that...
So when I am established there I'll reach out to you. We'll work up a time when it's good for us both. Fair enough.
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Sounds like fun!
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Thank you Lora for your detailed explanation. Originally Posted by yolandateam
This was a simple misunderstanding on my part due to a lack of my personal knowledge about the inlay process.
A rookie error, that's all. Just the same, I'm grateful you took the time to explain the process in detail for all to see.
The guitar looks great!
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I've found a closed back cabinet with an 8" speaker works well for low volume. Sitting in front of it is satisfying and my other half isn't bothered elsewhere in the house (unlike an open back 1x12 which seems louder 2 floors up than it does in front of me). Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
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Thanks for the advice there Max, the only place with the fewest common walls is the living room, which shares a common floor/celing with the upstairs neighbors' living room. In the daytime at reasonable volume it won't be any louder than me watching the big screen tv my Mom has. Besides it's not like we'll be doing any Eddie Van Halen ERUPTION imitations. LOL... Yeah I think the living room will work.
Jeff, I'll stay in touch. Let me know if you our your guest (if you bring one) have any food allergies or dislikes.Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 01-31-2016 at 05:56 PM.
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Sounds more like a job for the regular police to me. Counterfeiting is a crime, whether one thinks it moral or not. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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I dunno. One has to choose their battles. All "crime" is not created equal. Now if the "cops" want to begin investigation with the early 2000's mortgage fiasco, I'm all for it.
Expecting a small builder in a small town in China, who could possibly not even have internet, to know every luthier on the planet is a bit much.
Speaking of "counterfeit." I find it funny, how when Monteleone creates a design based on the Gibson style O archtop, it's received as flattering - but dare a small luthier in China profile the spirit of the same guitar and suddenly it's a travesty.
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Oh, sucks for Anderson, Nash Suhr and all the other "counterfeiters" out there. I guess the police will be busy then. Who else has made a look alike? O wait, Ibanez, Yamaha, Aria. Man, the police is REALLY going to be busy! Didn't Marshall and Vox based their circuits on the 59 Bassman? Get the popo out there to Britain, we need to go after these scumbags! LOL, LOL, LOL!!!!! Wait, who was the first o use F-holes on an archtop? What about parallel bracing? There must be some king of patent on the use of F-holes on a guitar as well....
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I agree. But such a builder should know his own name, right? What if someone in, say, Iowa started turning out Mr. Wu /Ms Lora / Yunzhi guitars? Not real ones, just the guitars he makes but with those names on them because, you know, some people pay good money for that stuff and what's the harm, really? Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
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I couldn't agree more, the name on the headstock surprised me too. If I suspect anything it's that Mr Wu didn't have a clue whose name he was being asked to install. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Most guitars have a mark there. Even an erhu bears the maker's 'chop'. Unless the order was placed by a Mr. or Ms. Campellone, it seems reasonable to at least question, if not research the matter. The art of
construction of archtops isn't exactly something naively stumbled upon in an information vacuum.
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Can you "research" in Chinese? Originally Posted by aboutIt
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It seems that between Mr. Wu and Ms. Lora, the Cantonese/Mandarin - English divide is fairly well bridged. The point I'm making is that these people are not idiots. The concept of name and reputation is not a foreign one in China.
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Seriously? You're going with that? Originally Posted by abelljo
How about if you were Mark Campellone and saw a guitar not made by you which has your name on it, which you did not license, and which traded upon your decades of work and reputation? Your reputation would be damaged if the guitar is inferior to one you made with your own hands and knowledge which, let's face it, is almost certainly going to be the case given that you are one of the best luthiers in the world. How about knowing that you probably can't afford to fight it unless you can find a trademark lawyer willing to prosecute an international case for free or close to it? It actually sucks for Mark Campellone.
Gibson, Martin, etc., did take the Japanese guitars companies on for making instruments that were too similar in design and infringed upon registered trademarks and non-registered design elements (i.e., headstock shape, script in logos, etc.). Those elements were not registered because part of the ethics of the business had been to not copy those elements, an unspoken agreement in all likelihood- something the Japanese companies did not abide by. They do now. Too many Chinese (and other) companies are sadly infamous for making counterfeit products and for having no respect for patents, copyrights and trademarks. That is slowly changing too under international pressure, but knockoffs abound still (from other countries too, China is by no means the only place where this happens).
It's not an homage, it's a ripoff. The question is "do I want to do business with a company that would do this?" The answer for me is no. Everyone else has to answer that question for themselves.
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I cannot speak for Campellone, and what he does is his affair, but if I was in his shoes, I'd probably wonder what kind of complete nutter would go to the trouble of having a really inaccurate copy made of one of his guitars while going to the trouble of using his trademark. It's not like most of the folks who buy or sell Mark's instruments, new or used, don't know what to look for when considering one of his instruments. Mark uses informative serial numbers and is happy to help out people with questions about his guitars.
Then I'd think about it for a minute. Then I'd go back to work. Then I'd have a nice sandwich. Maybe I'd skip work and go directly to the sandwich. …..mmmm…..sandwich.
The likelihood is pretty slim, but I suppose if a boatload of these showed up all over ebay, reverb and various Guitar Shack retailers, I might skip the sandwich and pick up the phone. Slim to none.
And while on the subject, hooray for Mark Campellone!
Last edited by Hammertone; 02-01-2016 at 04:18 AM.
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So now you're making assumptions about their language strengths and or weaknesses via a translator program? Originally Posted by aboutIt
With that last assumption / judgment, I'm out.
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Yup Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Me too
Buuuh Byyyyeeee
And as a side note to my terminating my relationship with this group, I was contacted by two long time forum members: one on Friday and the other on Saturday. Both great men I knew long before this site, guys with deep playing skills and very tasty collections of classic American and Japanese guitars. They were telling me that they're reluctantly giving up on this site. The cliques and double standards and the nonsense by some of the more vocal members was just too much.
Ya'll have a nice life. I wonder how many years it takes before you lose the best of your core members to nonsensical tirades like the ones I saw in this thread on Pages 3 and 4...
Psalm 23Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 02-01-2016 at 03:29 AM.
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I talked with Mr Wu about M Campellone logo, And this guitar sold by another person in 2014 and the customer requested the logo on the head, but Mr Wu didn't know M Campellone before, You know he didn't speak English.
He is sorry about this and will not put other brand or name on our guitar in the future.
Yours
Lora
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Originally Posted by yolandateam
Thank you Lora for the explanation, your answer was what I knew of you and the Wu's as honest hard working artists trying to make the bridge with another culture. I am glad you are my friends and collaborators.
Mike
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