The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #151

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    My posts; #116, #119 and #125 of this thread are likely the impetus of what you are referring to as a "nonsensical tirade". I have tried to be respectful throughout my posts, but seeing an image of a guitar with another maker's name on it posted and no one commenting frankly surprised me. I had seen highly derivative work in these threads but never a direct copy including a headstock logo. Because these threads exist in perpetuity, I felt that a voice saying that this "was not right" might help discourage others from doing the same in the future. If that is now deemed "nonsensical" and a "triade", or as others have said "judgmental"so be it.

    I am sorry to hear that you have decided to part ways with the forum as a result. For what it is worth, I have reached a similar state of mind at a number of points over the last 6-years so I understand your frustration. Lastly, good luck with your move to the Windy City.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
    Yup

    Me too

    Buuuh Byyyyeeee


    And as a side note to my terminating my relationship with this group, I was contacted by two long time forum members: one on Friday and the other on Saturday. Both great men I knew long before this site, guys with deep playing skills and very tasty collections of classic American and Japanese guitars. They were telling me that they're reluctantly giving up on this site. The cliques and double standards and the nonsense by some of the more vocal members was just too much.

    Ya'll have a nice life. I wonder how many years it takes before you lose the best of your core members to nonsensical tirades like the ones I saw in this thread on Pages 3 and 4...


    Psalm 23

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  3. #152

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    Well, at least some good has come from this thread, now that Mr. Wu and Ms. Lora are aware that the mark 'M Campellone' and the 'Special' graphic are the property of Mr. Campellone, and putting them on guitars not made by his hands or license is not considered either honorable or legal in the West. And how fortunate that such appliques are not etched into the (admittedly fine) woodwork, but can be easily removed by the craftsman before any further damage is done.

  4. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by yolandateam
    I talked with Mr Wu about M Campellone logo, And this guitar sold by another person in 2014 and the customer requested the logo on the head, but Mr Wu didn't know M Campellone before, You know he didn't speak English.

    He is sorry about this and will not put other brand or name on our guitar in the future.

    Yours
    Lora
    That's good to know.

    Further, it suggests that Mr. Wu now knows this was wrong. It seems that those who realized this before but did not tell Mr. Wu, and shouted down those pointing it out, were not acting in the best interests of Mr. Wu.
    Last edited by MarkRhodes; 02-01-2016 at 11:11 AM. Reason: Gloss

  5. #154

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    With all due respect, I'm not buying it.
    Someone who is in the business of making guitars doesn't know who Mark Campellone is? Understanding Copyright laws should be imperative if you are a guitar builder. It doesn't take much to go online and verify a logo before you unlawfully put it on a guitar you are building. Sorry that was weak.
    JD

  6. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
    Yup

    Me too

    Buuuh Byyyyeeee


    And as a side note to my terminating my relationship with this group, I was contacted by two long time forum members: one on Friday and the other on Saturday. Both great men I knew long before this site, guys with deep playing skills and very tasty collections of classic American and Japanese guitars. They were telling me that they're reluctantly giving up on this site. The cliques and double standards and the nonsense by some of the more vocal members was just too much.

    Ya'll have a nice life. I wonder how many years it takes before you lose the best of your core members to nonsensical tirades like the ones I saw in this thread on Pages 3 and 4...


    Psalm 23
    And Mike, you should not leave our group because you are one of the core members.
    We need you here. Once you are done with your move and you get settled in, reconsider your position and stay on with group. This is not a good enough reason for you to leave us.
    Joe D.

  7. #156

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    Is there a fake shown anywhere here? There is a reference to a guitar, and Lora makes a reference above. But is there a picture anywhere?

    It appears to be a vague 'someone' but every M Campellone guitar I can see in this thread is clearly labelled an "inspiration" by BigMike, unless it is posted by Hammertone - and while he has two, one is BigMike's "inspiration" and the other is one he posted as a comparison.
    Last edited by travisty; 02-01-2016 at 12:46 PM.

  8. #157

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    It's the comparison photo, the one with the overly colorful abalone.

    For the record, that is NOT big mike's guitar, nor did he commission a counterfeit.

  9. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    That's good to know.

    Further, it suggests that Mr. Wu now knows this was wrong. It seems that those who realized this before but did not tell Mr. Wu, and shouted down those pointing it out, were not acting in the best interests of Mr. Wu.
    The only thing this thread "suggests", is fact finding is lost among a rush to judgment and assumption.

    Let's hope some of you are never selected for jury duty.

  10. #159

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    Thanks mr. beaumont,

    I had read through this thread three times and somehow missed that until the third time when I was searching every page for the word "Campellone". The big bold letters are easier on BigMike's eyes but they are awfully tough on mine. I read the early part whereby a friend showed him "a Mark Campellone Special" and had not noticed that one post where it becomes a copy. Oh dear. That IS unfortunate.

    Personally I think BigMike copying the inlays or the "Special" logo is OK. I think his acquaintance copying the inlay name/trademark at the top was unfortunate.

    As to trademark usage, selling the copied trademark guitar would/should be a complete no-no.

    But I am curious what the law is on paying someone to put the logo on something for your personal use if you never sell it or derive profit from it. Non-profit fandom is everywhere and people don't make a fuss about it as long as people are not selling it.

  11. #160

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    Perhaps we should ask the craftsman himself how he feels about it. His email address can be found on his wepage.

  12. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by travisty

    But I am curious what the law is on paying someone to put the logo on something for your personal use if you never sell it or derive profit from it. Non-profit fandom is everywhere and people don't make a fuss about it as long as people are not selling it.
    I just don't think you could ever prove that, so it's a non-starter issue.

  13. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
    Yup

    Me too

    Buuuh Byyyyeeee


    And as a side note to my terminating my relationship with this group, I was contacted by two long time forum members: one on Friday and the other on Saturday. Both great men I knew long before this site, guys with deep playing skills and very tasty collections of classic American and Japanese guitars. They were telling me that they're reluctantly giving up on this site. The cliques and double standards and the nonsense by some of the more vocal members was just too much.

    Ya'll have a nice life. I wonder how many years it takes before you lose the best of your core members to nonsensical tirades like the ones I saw in this thread on Pages 3 and 4...


    Psalm 23
    Mike,

    If too many core members leave we'll have to rename this place "The Gear Page". Jazz is having a hard enough time as it is, stick around if for no other reason than to keep jazz alive.

  14. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Let's hope some of you are never selected for jury duty.
    I pray that exact thing everytime I walk to the Mailbox.
    JD

  15. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutIt
    Perhaps we should ask the craftsman himself how he feels about it. His email address can be found on his wepage.
    I've sent an email with a link to this thread.

  16. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
    With all due respect, I'm not buying it.
    Someone who is in the business of making guitars doesn't know who Mark Campellone is? Understanding Copyright laws should be imperative if you are a guitar builder. It doesn't take much to go online and verify a logo before you unlawfully put it on a guitar you are building. Sorry that was weak.
    JD
    Ever travel outside the US Joe?

    Ever visit a backwater town in a 3rd world country? Where if there's hot water, much less Internet service, its limited to only certain hours of the day.

    What's "weak " to me is to project standards commonly known and taken for granted in the US, or Europe, onto locales whose standards are anything but your norm.

    Last I checked, this is an international forum.

  17. #166

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    The unfortunate reality of this forum is it can be at times like swimming with sharks and God help you if you have a cut finger that is bleeding. It can turn very quickly from advise to a personal attack which either leaves a member very mad and upset or with very hurt feelings. It is not what one posts but how it is posted which can be brutal at times. I know that I personally have been attacked on occasion and it doesn't feel good.
    We all have very strong opinions but sometimes we forget that we are all playing on the same team.
    BigMike is a great guy and always was very kind with his posts. Shame on us that he quit the forum. I know on occasion I was ready to cut the rope too.
    BigMike if you read this SORRY BRO! you are a very nice man and I respect you very much.....Vinny

  18. #167
    dortmundjazzguitar Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by yolandateam
    I talked with Mr Wu about M Campellone logo, And this guitar sold by another person in 2014 and the customer requested the logo on the head, but Mr Wu didn't know M Campellone before, You know he didn't speak English.

    He is sorry about this and will not put other brand or name on our guitar in the future.

    Yours
    Lora
    so the "wealthy client" provided a photo of a campellone headstock? surely at that point mr. wu must have realized that he was working on a counterfeit, right?

  19. #168

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    Montreal bagel, toasted, with some Brie, apricot jam and a couple of thin slices of prosciutto.
    It was very tasty.

    The whole "wealthy individual" and "money was no object" thing intrigues me. I guess if I was a wealthy individual for whom money was no object and I wanted a guitar that had Campellone's name on the headstock, I'd order one from Mark Campellone. And if Mark chose not to build it with flamed maple binding then, given my vast resources, I'd get it rebound in flamed maple after taking delivery of it.

    Maybe that's just crazy, but it might just get me through the day.
    Along with another sandwich, of course.
    Last edited by Hammertone; 02-01-2016 at 03:46 PM.

  20. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    The unfortunate reality of this forum is it can be at times like swimming with sharks and God help you if you have a cut finger that is bleeding. It can turn very quickly from advise to a personal attack which either leaves a member very mad and upset or with very hurt feelings. It is not what one posts but how it is posted which can be brutal at times. I know that I personally have been attacked on occasion and it doesn't feel good.
    We all have very strong opinions but sometimes we forget that we are all playing on the same team.
    BigMike is a great guy and always was very kind with his posts. Shame on us that he quit the forum. I know on occasion I was ready to cut the rope too.
    BigMike if you read this SORRY BRO! you are a very nice man and I respect you very much.....Vinny
    Vinny,

    I too have experienced being the bait in these here shark infested waters.

    And under attack from false allegations, assumption, and innuendo, all I had to say was "prove it."

    But of course telling them to 'prove it' didn't occur to me until days later, after the thread was closed.

    Folks are so quick to go into attack mode, without seeking out facts. Facts? Who cares about facts, time to pile on, who cares it's only another's reputation.

  21. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar
    so the "wealthy client" provided a photo of a campellone headstock? surely at that point mr. wu must have realized that he was working on a counterfeit, right?
    In the age of Photoshop? Seriously? All that proves is a client submitted a photo. The other day I saw Obama dressed in nazi garb. Was that real?

  22. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar
    would you like to elaborate on that? who photoshopped exactly what and why? (no, not obama)
    You're the brainy one. You figure it out.

  23. #172

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    I used Photoshop to prepare the image of the two guitar headstocks in post#124.
    Didn't really change much - rotated one, adjusted the sizes so they appear similar in size, cropped them.
    Does that count? :^)

    And I once used Photoshop to put Jennifer Lawrence's head on … well, nevermind.

  24. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
    And Mike, you should not leave our group because you are one of the core members.
    We need you here. Once you are done with your move and you get settled in, reconsider your position and stay on with group. This is not a good enough reason for you to leave us.
    Joe D.
    Agree !
    Fully agree !
    Mike MUST stay with us.
    No way he'd be leaving for a misunderstanding

  25. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Ever travel outside the US Joe?

    Ever visit a backwater town in a 3rd world country? Where if there's hot water, much less Internet service, its limited to only certain hours of the day.

    What's "weak " to me is to project standards commonly known and taken for granted in the US, or Europe, onto locales whose standards are anything but your norm.

    Last I checked, this is an international forum.
    Yes 2b, I have traveled outside the country. And I've traveled beyond the tourist areas and saw poverty that I could never imagine existed. I am very sensitive to people who are less fortunate than myself. I came from nothing too. And I made something of myself because I worked hard. Just like Mark Campellone did. Think about it.
    Are you trying to say that Mr Wu doesn't have the internet? Then how do they get their orders?

  26. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
    With all due respect, I'm not buying it.
    Someone who is in the business of making guitars doesn't know who Mark Campellone is? Understanding Copyright laws should be imperative if you are a guitar builder. It doesn't take much to go online and verify a logo before you unlawfully put it on a guitar you are building. Sorry that was weak.
    JD
    Disagree with all due respect.
    We're talking about China, not the United States of America.
    Have you ever been to China ?
    Are you sure internet is available to everyone there ?

    I see a difference in "being in the business of making guitars" (western way of it) and "making guitars".

    To me, the one who is to blame is not the maker (making one guitar for a single order) but the one who ordered the guitar at first.