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  1. #101

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    ​I too am sorry to hear that is an overlay, being you started the project thinking it was a cut into the wood inlay. I'd be disappointed if that was my dream project and found that out so late in the process.

    Still for the money paid you're going to be getting a remarkable guitar that will give you many years of playing satisfaction.
    Attached Images Attached Images Ms Lora/Mr Wu Special Project-image-jpg 
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 01-31-2016 at 01:59 AM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    Hi, Everyone,

    I think some one still not understand the logos.

    Lora is here now for explaining the logos questions.

    The logos on headstock and inlays on fretboard are made from genuine mother of pearl or ablone (not plastics stickers)

    The inlays on fretboard is inserted into the wood, You can see it when the guitar is in your hands. and the logos on head ,most of time, it is sticking on the the head by nitro-lacquer if customers requests. not by glue. I think you can see that the head will be painting by lacquer.

    Even Mr Wu worked in Yunzhi, they did the logos in same way.

    Just I checked Mr Wu why he didn't insert the logo into wood. He said 1) it is really need skills make the wood out and fix the logo especially letters,and Wasting time. 2) after finishing the guitar, you couldn't tell any differences from 2ways for the logos. 3) if the logo position is not correct, we can adjust it easily.

    Here I made a logo steps for your understood easily.
    Ms Lora/Mr Wu Special Project-00-jpg

    If you have have questions, please leave message and I will try to answer you.

    Yours
    Lora

  4. #103

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    .
    Thanks for explaining how it's done.

    You learn something here all the time.

    Mike

  5. #104

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    Ms Lora,Thank you for your excellent response to this problem. You and Mr Wu are doing a fine job on the guitars and with customer questions and desires.Keep up the good work!

  6. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archtop Guy
    Ms Lora,Thank you for your excellent response to this problem. You and Mr Wu are doing a fine job on the guitars and with customer questions and desires.Keep up the good work!
    Hi, Archtop Guy,

    Thanks for your encouraging words. Yes, I will try my best to do better.

    Yours
    Lora

  7. #106

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    Good luck with your mother,the animals and the move Mike. You won't be any further away from us as we'll all still meet here on the forum.

  8. #107

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    Apologies in advance for raining on the collegial enthusiasm and celebration going on here, but I feel like I have to chime in.

    I have seen much derivative work displayed in these build threads where various design features of guitars made by individual luthiers (or companies) both living and dead are requested to be implemented in commissions on this forum by Mr. Wu/Yolanda Dream etc.(and others). But putting the actual logo "MCampellone" on the peghead has taken "derivative" to bordering on "counterfeit". You also are referring to the guitar as a "Campallone Special" throughout this posting. I did read that they will be putting stickers on the inside, so upon careful inspection, assigning the correct provenance of the guitar is possible to Mr Wu. But honestly that really doesn't indemnify the situation in my view.

    I suppose we all have differing borderlines of moralty based on culture when lifting others designs when patents or trademarks are not in place to protect the originator. Some folks feel it is ok to lift an element (e.g. A headstock shape, an f-hole etc.) others go so far as lifting many combinations of elements. I have made my disapproving views on this in the past here on the forum before. But to use the actual name/logo of a living builder on a guitar NOT MADE by him, is a new low in my view (it is bad enough after they're gone). I am frankly surprised that no one else has said anything as we have watched the guitar progress. I was at first pleased to see you put the name of Mr. Wu in Chinese on one of your commisions, but putting Mark's on the peghead has soured me on this whole venture.

    Are we so enthusiastic at getting what we want that it is now "OK" to do this? A living craftsman's name is all they have. Perhaps I missed it, did you ask Mark if it was OK to use his name on a peghead of a guitar not made by him?

  9. #108

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    Bob,

    You're a respected member here and I like you and what you stand for.
    And when I ordered MY guitar I chose Mr Wu's name on the headstock for some of the reasons you just stated, my guitar is not a
    counterfeit but a tribute if you will the the Gibson influences that many great american arch top builders have used in their designs that have their name on them. I refer to my guitar as a Special copy, and it is. Just like the great Ibanez arch top copies of Gibson's classic designs that they did in the later 70's before coming up with their own designs. I don't hear you preaching about those, the name on the headstock is Ibanez, not Gibson.

    That photo is of a guitar that a wealthy individual ordered, "money was no object" and this guy was such a difficult customer that repeatedly he told Mr. Wu it still had issues and Mr Wu bent over backwards to satisfy this guy that had never played it but based his complaints on photos alone. Eventually this tough customer walked away leaving Mr Wu holding the proverbial bag as it were. Eventually the guitar made it's way to Ms Tillie (an associate of Mr. Li) and was offered to a guy I know on Long Island who buys guitars in bulk orders from Yunzhi, bulk meaning 20 or more at a time. This friend of mine paid $900.00 for the guitar EMS'ed. Before he closed the deal he called me asking my advice. Once I saw the photos I thought, OK really sweet guitar. Wouldn't have worked for me because of the M Campellone name on the headstock. I contacted Lora and asked if Mr Wu could make one like it but with his name on it. And that's how mine started. So my only association with that piece is thru my friend.

    So that's it... sorry you feel so angry about the other guitar that is not mine.
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 01-31-2016 at 11:24 AM.

  10. #109

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    Ms Lora/Mr Wu Special Project-12046684_10153750835088593_6576890313572190696_n-jpg

  11. #110

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    Mike, first off my name is "Bob", not Jim... Thanks for clarifying the origin of the guitar and that it is not yours. I was unclear about that. I hope that you can understand my confusion. My comments regarding it, still stand true; they are just not pointed at you. I was just surprised that no one in this community had commented on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
    Jim,

    You're a respected member here and I like you and what you stand for.
    And when I ordered MY guitar I chose Mr Wu's name on the headstock for some of the reasons you just stated, my guitar is not a
    counterfeit but a tribute if you will the the Gibson influences that many great american arch top builders have used in their designs that have their name on them. I refer to my guitar as a Special copy, and it is. Just like the great Ibanez arch top copies of Gibson's classic designs that they did in the later 70's before coming up with their own designs. I don't hear you preaching about those, the name on the headstock is Ibanez, not Gibson.

    That photo is of a guitar that a wealthy individual ordered, "money was no object" and this guy was such a difficult customer that repeatedly he told Mr. Wu it still had issues and Mr Wu bent over backwards to satisfy this guy that had never played it but based his complaints on photos alone. Eventually this tough customer walked away leaving Mr Wu holding the proverbial bag as it were. Eventually the guitar made it's way to Ms Tillie (an associate of Mr. Li) and was offered to a guy I know on Long Island who buys guitars in bulk orders from Yunzhi, bulk meaning 20 or more at a time. This friend of mine paid $900.00 for the guitar EMS'ed. Before he closed the deal he called me asking my advice. Once I saw the photos I thought, OK really sweet guitar. Wouldn't have worked for me because of the M Campellone name on the headstock. I contacted Lora and asked if Mr Wu could make one like it but with his name on it. And that's how mine started. So my only association with that piece is thru my friend.

    So that's it... sorry you feel so angry about the other guitar that is not mine.

  12. #111

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    ​See you guys in a couple weeks, I got packing to do and things to square away prior to my move. I'm sure you all will take care in the meantime.

    Big

  13. #112

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    Bob,

    Sorry I didn't know your given name. With my poor eyesight I took what I thought was the Jim part of your handle and addressed you as Jim, I updated that post just now.

    Mike
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 01-31-2016 at 11:25 AM.

  14. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7
    Mike, first off my name is "Bob", not Jim... Thanks for clarifying the origin of the guitar and that it is not yours. I was unclear about that. I hope that you can understand my confusion. My comments regarding it, still stand true; they are just not pointed at you. I was just surprised that no one in this community had commented on it.
    There's a cultural thing going on here, in Mr. Wu's culture it's generally not immoral to make a something that already exists (a 'Campellone', 'Microsoft', etc) but in western culture it could be considered counterfeit or copyright infringement. Property rights are different in different societies.

    There are those on this forum who have issue with D'Angelico's made in Korea by a company with the legal right to do so (yet nobody seems to take issue with Fenders made in Mexico or China?).

    I do understand wanting a 'tribute' instrument with some of the characteristics of a Campellone, Gibson, etc.

    If I do a Mr Wu build I would do a unique headstock and after the inlay kerfuffle, which has been gracefully handled by Ms Lora, I was thinking of something simple and contemporary - maybe a few simple geometric shapes inlaid into the wood. I love math and architecture so the challenge of the layout of simple shapes as art interests me and execution should be within the abilities of Mr. Wu.

    We all love guitars and have our own reasons for a custom build.
    Last edited by MaxTwang; 01-31-2016 at 02:34 PM.

  15. #114

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    Cultural differences aside, a craftsman who would put another's name on the outside of his wares is as likely to be a craftsman who would put another's name on the inside, as well. Yunzhi what I'm getting at?

  16. #115

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    Just to clarify the comments, and further clarify the photo: On the left is a shot of a genuine Campellone headstock/1st fret taken from a for-sale advertisement for a Campellone. I don't know the source. On the right is a cropped shot of the headstock/1st fret of a fake Campellone guitar with Campellone-style inlays, Campellone-style headstock shape , and the MCampellone wordmark inlay, built by Wu.
    Attached Images Attached Images Ms Lora/Mr Wu Special Project-campellone-real-fake-headstocks-jpg 
    Last edited by Hammertone; 02-01-2016 at 03:34 PM.

  17. #116

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    Perhaps I was a bit unclear in my comments. My critical comment's were less directed at the Chinese builder who was fulfilling the requests of their client. I think you correctly pointed out that they may have different cultural norms governing what is or is not considered acceptable to do. I hope their respect for intellectual property develop and I suspect this cultural norm will change with time as they further integrate into the World economy. My comments were directed towards the clients located in the West and us as a community who should know better. In an age where downloading a stuggling musician's music for "free" has become the acceptable norm, I still optimistically hope that there will be a moral compass to guide us moving forward.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaxTwang
    There's a cultural thing going on here, in Mr. Wu's culture it's generally not immoral to make a something that already exists (a 'Campellone', 'Microsoft', etc) but in western culture it could be considered counterfeit or copyright infringement. Property rights are different in different societies.

    There are those on this forum who have issue with D'Angelico's made in Korea by a company with the legal right to do so (yet nobody seems to take issue with Fenders made in Mexico or China?).

    I do understand wanting a 'tribute' instrument with some of the characteristics of a Campellone, Gibson, etc.

    If I do a Mr Wu build I would do a unique headstock and after the inlay kerfuffle, which has been gracefully handled by Ms Lora, I was thinking of something simple and contemporary - maybe a few simple geometric shapes inlaid into the wood. I love math and architecture so the challenge of the layout of simple shapes as art interests me and execution should be within the abilities of Mr. Wu.

    We all love guitars and have our own reasons for a custom build.

  18. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7
    ...My critical comment's were less directed at the Chinese builder who was fulfilling the requests of their client. I think you correctly pointed out that they may have different cultural norms governing what is or is not considered acceptable to do. I hope their respect for intellectual property develop and I suspect this cultural norm will change with time as they further integrate into the World economy. My comments were directed towards the clients located in the West and us as a community who should know better. In an age where downloading a stuggling musician's music for "free" has become the acceptable norm, I still optimistically hope that there will be a moral compass to guide us moving forward.

    What a lovely and restrained post! I also hope that
    their respect for intellectual property develops as they further integrate into the World economy.

    Just some useful information:


    In trademark law (not patent law, not copyright law), passing off goods using someone else's trademarks and "trade dress" is illegal. Putting together a partscaster with Fender markings and selling it as a Fender guitar is a good example of this. Same as building a guitar with Gibson Les Paul markings and selling it as a genuine Les Paul.

    This is pretty important stuff in the lives of some businesses. It has its upsides and downsides. I spent a couple of fun years in a consumer packaged goods environment figuring out how to get very close to competitor's trademarks without infringing on them. Trademark law is typically national in scope, although there are "famous" trademarks that are international in scope - Coca-Cola, Apple, Nestlé and the like.

    The guitar in question is marked in a way that is clearly illegal. It happens to be a bad counterfeit, because it is clearly not a Campellone - different in every way except for the headstock shape, inlay shapes, and the explicit use of Mark's name. But the traditional test in trademark law is not how good a copy it is, but whether it can be passed off as the real thing - would "a moron in a hurry" be fooled by this? The answer is yes. I suppose we could argue about the correlation between people who purchase jazz guitars and morons but that's another story.

    Last edited by Hammertone; 01-31-2016 at 02:30 PM.

  19. #118

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    Well I can see this thread is gonna be at the top of the heap a long time...
    You guys are gonna beat this horse a long time.

    Again my headstock says WHAT ?? on it. Mr. Wu in Chinese characters, and it is not a drop dead copy of a Campellone in so many ways. It clearly is labeled inside and signed by Lora, Mr and Mrs Wu and in no way suggests it is a Campellone.

    Perhaps you should take Mr. Campellone to task for borrowing the general shape of the Gibson headstock, or using the body shape and pickup placement of an Ibanez JP20, or the F holes reminiscent of a D'Aquisto in this guitar... Hmmm ????

    I'm sure you'll go on and on for some time. No one here is gonna debate with you. Have fun.

    Ms Lora/Mr Wu Special Project-p2_ufhf1okik_so-jpg
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 01-31-2016 at 02:32 PM.

  20. #119

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    There's a difference between borrowing a similar shape and making a counterfeit.

    I hope they do figure this out. I'd love to consider a Wu/Yunzhi build, but as long as those shops are churning out counterfeits, some of them of guitars by builders I've met personally and who I have great respect for--then it's a no go.

    For the record, I'm not anti Chinese guitar. I've owned several and am looking at one right now (a cheaper gypsy jazz guitar)

    Bummer too, these latest 18" guitars look fabulous...they're getting really good at those bursts.

  21. #120

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    Morality police. Uh oh. Here we go!

  22. #121

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    In western culture people are mainly watching their profits and safeguarding from competition. I don't know if this is immoral or moral. People have been observing the ideas of others, copying or improving upon those ideas for centuries. Every company in the planet at some point has done it. Some examples, the 1911 pistol, the hot dog, soda, furniture, vehicles, etc, etc, etc. But in the guitar world everyone is very protective and are be willing to stand behind the brands they love and protect them. I for one get nothing from the Gibson's of the world. When they start paying me royalties then I'll care. I don't work or represent any of them and as long as they charge as much as a car for their instruments I'll keep shopping around for better deals that fit a starving jazz guitar enthusiast like myself.

    BTW, who has the money for the real deal will pay for the real deal and will not settle for anything less. Does not matter if they make a reasonable facsimile in Asia or not. There are a lot of great players that had to settle for the Ibanez, Burny and Greco copies of the great archtops because like many here were starving musicians.

  23. #122

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    BigMikeInNJ (soon to be Chicago),

    I don't think anyone is taking issue with your build, I certainly don't, as it clearly has Mr Wu's name on it. Your guitar is not a copy of anything, but honors some design elements of other builders. I think it is a beautiful guitar and inspired me to think about what I would want in a custom build.

    The issue is with the 'M. Campellone' guitar - it may be a good example of Mr Wu's work, but to me putting 'M. Campellone' on it just isn't right.

    Hammertone makes a good 'moron' argument: If I saw that guitar on eBay or Reverb I might not study the pics close enough to see the inconsistencies with the original and buy it. An unscrupulous seller can make it difficult to get a refund (if you caught it in time); I've been there on a 'condition not as described', it took sending the guitar for an appraisal to get eBay/PayPal to refund. That takes time and money you will never get back.

  24. #123

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    No, I said I won't be ordering, didn't say anything about anybody else. Do as you please, I do not judge. If you lived closer, I'd invite you over to play that beauty you have coming in, as a matter of fact.

  25. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxTwang
    BigMikeInNJ (soon to be Chicago),

    I don't think anyone is taking issue with your build, I certainly don't, as it clearly has Mr Wu's name on it. Your guitar is not a copy of anything, but honors some design elements of other builders. I think it is a beautiful guitar and inspired me to think about what I would want in a custom build.

    The issue is with the 'M. Campellone' guitar - it may be a good example of Mr Wu's work, but to me putting 'M. Campellone' on it just isn't right.

    Hammertone makes a good 'moron' argument: If I saw that guitar on eBay or Reverb I might not study the pics close enough to see the inconsistencies with the original and buy it. An unscrupulous seller can make it difficult to get a refund (if you caught it in time); I've been there on a 'condition not as described', it took sending the guitar for an appraisal to get eBay/PayPal to refund. That takes time and money you will never get back.
    My like button is missing, so I'll just quote it and say so.

    Big Mike, what part of town?

  26. #125

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    We all know that your commission does not say "MCampellone" so please let's put that to rest.

    But you were showing another person's Mr.Wu commision and did not seem to have any concern that it was a "counterfeit" copy. Your last post also confused me a bit. Are you suggesting that it is "ok" to put another builder's name on a guitar that they did not build because much of Mark's design language is derivative of Gibson?

    Perhaps there is a different point where something "crosses the line" for you in a spectrum of gray? As I stated in my earlier post, there is a difference between differing levels of "derivative" and "counterfeit". I watched these images go up for a few days and I was frankly surprised that no one commented.

    Again, I am happy for you and your excitement regarding your custom commission. It is not my intent to rain on your parade.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
    Well I can see this thread is gonna be at the top of the heap a long time...
    You guys are gonna beat this horse a long time.

    Again my headstock says WHAT ?? on it. Mr. Wu in Chinese characters, and it is not a drop dead copy of a Campellone in so many ways. It clearly is labeled inside and signed by Lora, Mr and Mrs Wu and in no way suggests it is a Campellone.

    Perhaps you should take Mr. Campellone to task for borrowing the general shape of the Gibson headstock, or using the body shape and pickup placement of an Ibanez JP20, or the F holes reminiscent of a D'Aquisto in this guitar... Hmmm ????

    I'm sure you'll go on and on for some time. No one here is gonna debate with you. Have fun.

    Ms Lora/Mr Wu Special Project-p2_ufhf1okik_so-jpg

  27. #126

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    Mr Beaumont, I'll be living in River Forest, off Lake Street, about 6 blocks west of Harlem. And you're welcome to come over, heck anyone that would be in that area is welcome to come over.
    Fair warning I'll cook for ya and try to make you fat. LOL... There's a reason I'm BigMike. LOL

    And that photo I posted of the guitar with the rose on the tailpiece, that is a genuine M. Campellone, my point was look at all the design elements he borrowed. Nobody was crying about that...

    As a chef I clearly agree with the person that said that many things INFLUENCE people. The DeMedici family arranged a marriage of their daughter Catheine to a French prince for political reasons. When she arrived in France she brought her entourage of 60 chefs. It was their Mediterranean influences that shaped what became French Cuisine. The French blatantly stole the foundations of Mediterranean cooking and called them their own. Look what great things they did with these influences and ideas when they ran with them...


    Anyway Mr. B, I wouldn't let that one copy guitar steer you away from building your own unique guitar via Mr. Wu. And having followed Mr. Wu's work for some time I am blown away by the beauty and shading of his bursts. And I'm not a "burst guy", but doggone they ARE great... You come up with your own unique headstock shape and inlays, your own fingerboard inlays and start talking dollars and cents and I think you will be swayed. They all need a pretty decent setup when you get them but that's par for the course.


    Good luck everyone.

  28. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxTwang
    ...Hammertone makes a good 'moron' argument...
    It's not my argument - I tip my hat to Justice Foster in the 1978 case Morning Star Cooperative Society v Express Newspapers Limited, I certainly wouldn't want to take credit for someone else's idea, heh.
    Good read:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_moron_in_a_hurry
    Last edited by Hammertone; 01-31-2016 at 05:05 PM.

  29. #128

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    What was there to comment? That someone, not on this forum, chose to elicit a build with Campellone's name atop the headstock? What else was there to say, it was so obvious.

    And now we're to be chastised because we didn't come forth with the appropriate faux outrage as you deem appropriate?

    Get off your high horse man!

    The problem I have with high and mighty judgmentalist's is - judgment always says more about those doing the judging than those they're judging.

  30. #129

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    I can see why some might not like the idea Mr. Wu DID put someone else name on one of his commissioned work and I suspect it is THAT fact that is being criticised, not Mike's or anyone else's legitimately branded commissioned instrument.

  31. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
    Mr Beaumont, I'll be living in River Forest, off Lake Street, about 6 blocks west of Harlem. And you're welcome to come over, heck anyone that would be in that area is welcome to come over.
    Fair warning I'll cook for ya and try to make you fat. LOL... There's a reason I'm BigMike. LOL

    And that photo I posted of the guitar with the rose on the tailpiece, that is a genuine M. Campellone, my point was look at all the design elements he borrowed. Nobody was crying about that...

    As a chef I clearly agree with the person that said that many things INFLUENCE people. The DeMedici family arranged a marriage of their daughter Catheine to a French prince for political reasons. When she arrived in France she brought her entourage of 60 chefs. It was their Mediterranean influences that shaped what became French Cuisine. The French blatantly stole the foundations of Mediterranean cooking and called them their own. Look what great things they did with these influences and ideas when they ran with them...


    Anyway Mr. B, I wouldn't let that one copy guitar steer you away from building your own unique guitar via Mr. Wu. And having followed Mr. Wu's work for some time I am blown away by the beauty and shading of his bursts. And I'm not a "burst guy", but doggone they ARE great... You come up with your own unique headstock shape and inlays, your own fingerboard inlays and start talking dollars and cents and I think you will be swayed. They all need a pretty decent setup when you get them but that's par for the course.


    Good luck everyone.
    lol, I'm already fat.

    are you hopefully bringing guitars along?

    2bop, I post because I really would like to take the jump, but I can't give my money to someone who would make a counterfeit. I knew yunzhi was, I thought it looked like wu would be pursuing something different.

    i have no issue with your guitar or big mikes latest build. My issue is solely with the fakes with the actual name on the headstock.

  32. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinlander
    I can see why some might not like the idea Mr. Wu DID put someone else name on one of his commissioned work and I suspect it is THAT fact that is being criticised, not Mike's or anyone else's legitimately branded commissioned instrument.
    That assumes Mr Wu was aware who this M Campellone was. I'm willing to give Mr Wu the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know, and was merely following a customers request.

    This assumption thing can be taken too far.

    First its assumed the build in question was Mike's. Now you're assuming what Mr Wu knew and when he knew it.

    What's next?

  33. #132

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    Mr B, yes I am bringing along all my guitars, none made in America, including the new commission. I have a decent Fuchs amp, I'm perplexed where to set that up. The building I will be living in is a senior only condo, very strict, very nice place. No animals allowed, not even birds. No kids. So where I put the amp and what times I use it is up in the air right now. I'll be in a corner unit in front, great place. But you can play any of my guitars acoustically. Most are carved arch tops. I have one Ibanez AS103 (335 derivative), a Greco RG800 (a Ric 360 derivative) and the Eastman, Yunzhi and Mr Wu, all made by Mr Wu at different stages of his career... I think you'll enjoy them. Bring your spouse and we'll relax, eat and you can play. Maybe we can make a video of you playing one or two of them to share here. I'd like that...

    So when I am established there I'll reach out to you. We'll work up a time when it's good for us both. Fair enough.


  34. #133

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    Sounds like fun!

  35. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by yolandateam
    Hi, Everyone,

    I think some one still not understand the logos.

    Lora is here now for explaining the logos questions.

    The logos on headstock and inlays on fretboard are made from genuine mother of pearl or ablone (not plastics stickers)

    The inlays on fretboard is inserted into the wood, You can see it when the guitar is in your hands. and the logos on head ,most of time, it is sticking on the the head by nitro-lacquer if customers requests. not by glue. I think you can see that the head will be painting by lacquer.

    Even Mr Wu worked in Yunzhi, they did the logos in same way.

    Just I checked Mr Wu why he didn't insert the logo into wood. He said 1) it is really need skills make the wood out and fix the logo especially letters,and Wasting time. 2) after finishing the guitar, you couldn't tell any differences from 2ways for the logos. 3) if the logo position is not correct, we can adjust it easily.

    Here I made a logo steps for your understood easily.
    Ms Lora/Mr Wu Special Project-00-jpg

    If you have have questions, please leave message and I will try to answer you.

    Yours
    Lora
    Thank you Lora for your detailed explanation.

    This was a simple misunderstanding on my part due to a lack of my personal knowledge about the inlay process.

    A rookie error, that's all. Just the same, I'm grateful you took the time to explain the process in detail for all to see.

    The guitar looks great!

  36. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMikeinNJ
    I have a decent Fuchs amp, I'm perplexed where to set that up. The building I will be living in is a senior only condo, very strict, very nice place. No animals allowed, not even birds. No kids. So where I put the amp and what times I use it is up in the air right now.
    I've found a closed back cabinet with an 8" speaker works well for low volume. Sitting in front of it is satisfying and my other half isn't bothered elsewhere in the house (unlike an open back 1x12 which seems louder 2 floors up than it does in front of me).

  37. #136

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    Thanks for the advice there Max, the only place with the fewest common walls is the living room, which shares a common floor/celing with the upstairs neighbors' living room. In the daytime at reasonable volume it won't be any louder than me watching the big screen tv my Mom has. Besides it's not like we'll be doing any Eddie Van Halen ERUPTION imitations. LOL... Yeah I think the living room will work.

    Jeff, I'll stay in touch. Let me know if you our your guest (if you bring one) have any food allergies or dislikes.
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 01-31-2016 at 05:56 PM.

  38. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Morality police. Uh oh. Here we go!
    Sounds more like a job for the regular police to me. Counterfeiting is a crime, whether one thinks it moral or not.

  39. #138

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    I dunno. One has to choose their battles. All "crime" is not created equal. Now if the "cops" want to begin investigation with the early 2000's mortgage fiasco, I'm all for it.

    Expecting a small builder in a small town in China, who could possibly not even have internet, to know every luthier on the planet is a bit much.

    Speaking of "counterfeit." I find it funny, how when Monteleone creates a design based on the Gibson style O archtop, it's received as flattering - but dare a small luthier in China profile the spirit of the same guitar and suddenly it's a travesty.

  40. #139

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    Oh, sucks for Anderson, Nash Suhr and all the other "counterfeiters" out there. I guess the police will be busy then. Who else has made a look alike? O wait, Ibanez, Yamaha, Aria. Man, the police is REALLY going to be busy! Didn't Marshall and Vox based their circuits on the 59 Bassman? Get the popo out there to Britain, we need to go after these scumbags! LOL, LOL, LOL!!!!! Wait, who was the first o use F-holes on an archtop? What about parallel bracing? There must be some king of patent on the use of F-holes on a guitar as well....

  41. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    Expecting a small builder in a small town in China, who could possibly not even have internet, to know every luthier on the planet is a bit much.
    I agree. But such a builder should know his own name, right? What if someone in, say, Iowa started turning out Mr. Wu /Ms Lora / Yunzhi guitars? Not real ones, just the guitars he makes but with those names on them because, you know, some people pay good money for that stuff and what's the harm, really?

  42. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I agree. But such a builder should know his own name, right? What if someone in, say, Iowa started turning out Mr. Wu /Ms Lora / Yunzhi guitars? Not real ones, just the guitars he makes but with those names on them because, you know, some people pay good money for that stuff and what's the harm, really?
    I couldn't agree more, the name on the headstock surprised me too. If I suspect anything it's that Mr Wu didn't have a clue whose name he was being asked to install.

  43. #142

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    Most guitars have a mark there. Even an erhu bears the maker's 'chop'. Unless the order was placed by a Mr. or Ms. Campellone, it seems reasonable to at least question, if not research the matter. The art of
    construction of archtops isn't exactly something naively stumbled upon in an information vacuum.

  44. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutIt
    Most guitars have a mark there. Even an erhu bears the maker's 'chop'. Unless the order was placed by a Mr. or Ms. Campellone, it seems reasonable to at least question, if not research the matter. The art of
    construction of archtops isn't exactly something naively stumbled upon in an information vacuum.
    Can you "research" in Chinese?

  45. #144

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    It seems that between Mr. Wu and Ms. Lora, the Cantonese/Mandarin - English divide is fairly well bridged. The point I'm making is that these people are not idiots. The concept of name and reputation is not a foreign one in China.

  46. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by abelljo
    Oh, sucks for Anderson, Nash Suhr and all the other "counterfeiters" out there. I guess the police will be busy then. Who else has made a look alike? O wait, Ibanez, Yamaha, Aria. Man, the police is REALLY going to be busy! Didn't Marshall and Vox based their circuits on the 59 Bassman? Get the popo out there to Britain, we need to go after these scumbags! LOL, LOL, LOL!!!!! Wait, who was the first o use F-holes on an archtop? What about parallel bracing? There must be some king of patent on the use of F-holes on a guitar as well....
    Seriously? You're going with that?

    How about if you were Mark Campellone and saw a guitar not made by you which has your name on it, which you did not license, and which traded upon your decades of work and reputation? Your reputation would be damaged if the guitar is inferior to one you made with your own hands and knowledge which, let's face it, is almost certainly going to be the case given that you are one of the best luthiers in the world. How about knowing that you probably can't afford to fight it unless you can find a trademark lawyer willing to prosecute an international case for free or close to it? It actually sucks for Mark Campellone.

    Gibson, Martin, etc., did take the Japanese guitars companies on for making instruments that were too similar in design and infringed upon registered trademarks and non-registered design elements (i.e., headstock shape, script in logos, etc.). Those elements were not registered because part of the ethics of the business had been to not copy those elements, an unspoken agreement in all likelihood- something the Japanese companies did not abide by. They do now. Too many Chinese (and other) companies are sadly infamous for making counterfeit products and for having no respect for patents, copyrights and trademarks. That is slowly changing too under international pressure, but knockoffs abound still (from other countries too, China is by no means the only place where this happens).

    It's not an homage, it's a ripoff. The question is "do I want to do business with a company that would do this?" The answer for me is no. Everyone else has to answer that question for themselves.

  47. #146

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    I cannot speak for Campellone, and what he does is his affair, but if I was in his shoes, I'd probably wonder what kind of complete nutter would go to the trouble of having a really inaccurate copy made of one of his guitars while going to the trouble of using his trademark. It's not like most of the folks who buy or sell Mark's instruments, new or used, don't know what to look for when considering one of his instruments. Mark uses informative serial numbers and is happy to help out people with questions about his guitars.

    Then I'd think about it for a minute. Then I'd go back to work. Then I'd have a nice sandwich. Maybe I'd skip work and go directly to the sandwich. …..mmmm…..sandwich.

    The likelihood is pretty slim, but I suppose if a boatload of these showed up all over ebay, reverb and various Guitar Shack retailers, I might skip the sandwich and pick up the phone. Slim to none.

    And while on the subject, hooray for Mark Campellone!
    Last edited by Hammertone; 02-01-2016 at 04:18 AM.

  48. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by aboutIt
    It seems that between Mr. Wu and Ms. Lora, the Cantonese/Mandarin - English divide is fairly well bridged. The point I'm making is that these people are not idiots. The concept of name and reputation is not a foreign one in China.
    So now you're making assumptions about their language strengths and or weaknesses via a translator program?

    With that last assumption / judgment, I'm out.

  49. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    So now you're making assumptions about their language strengths and or weaknesses via a translator program?

    With that last assumption / judgment, I'm out.
    Yup

    Me too

    Buuuh Byyyyeeee


    And as a side note to my terminating my relationship with this group, I was contacted by two long time forum members: one on Friday and the other on Saturday. Both great men I knew long before this site, guys with deep playing skills and very tasty collections of classic American and Japanese guitars. They were telling me that they're reluctantly giving up on this site. The cliques and double standards and the nonsense by some of the more vocal members was just too much.

    Ya'll have a nice life. I wonder how many years it takes before you lose the best of your core members to nonsensical tirades like the ones I saw in this thread on Pages 3 and 4...


    Psalm 23
    Last edited by BigMikeinNJ; 02-01-2016 at 03:29 AM.

  50. #149

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    I talked with Mr Wu about M Campellone logo, And this guitar sold by another person in 2014 and the customer requested the logo on the head, but Mr Wu didn't know M Campellone before, You know he didn't speak English.

    He is sorry about this and will not put other brand or name on our guitar in the future.

    Yours
    Lora

  51. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by yolandateam
    I talked with Mr Wu about M Campellone logo, And this guitar sold by another person in 2014 and the customer requested the logo on the head, but Mr Wu didn't know M Campellone before, You know he didn't speak English.

    He is sorry about this and will not put other brand or name on our guitar in the future.

    Yours
    Lora

    Thank you Lora for the explanation, your answer was what I knew of you and the Wu's as honest hard working artists trying to make the bridge with another culture. I am glad you are my friends and collaborators.

    Mike