Best Tuning Machines In Your Opinion?

**helios** · 09-07-2015, 11:47 PM

I pretty much replace any undesirable tuners with Schaller M6 machines, but I certainly haven't tried all brands--I simply trust Schallers. Is there a tuning machine you really like, and if so why (I presume you like them because don't have to keep messing with them). Please ignore the myriad of mounting systems: center screw, 45 & 90 degree screws, peg-head hole size etc. Thanks, Jeff

**Frank67** · 09-07-2015, 11:56 PM

Grover Imperial are my favorites on archtops. Very precise and elegant looking.
Schaller locking mini tuners on all my Warmoth guitars work great.

**wintermoon** · 09-08-2015, 12:33 AM

Hi Frank,
duly noted, but I just never warmed up to modern Imperials.
the orig prewar solid brass ones were wunderbar looking and working, one of my all time favorites in looks and function.
the 50's type were a bit less so, and so on....I think the quality declined as the yrs passed, like a lot of things do/did.

I really don't know what the best modern tuners are, but I do have open back Waverly's on a couple modern instruments and they look and work beautifully. they seem to be very well made, and from a functional standpoint, even better than the originals imo.

**entresz** · 09-08-2015, 01:32 AM

I'm also partial to the Grover Imperials. They really look the part on arch tops, and are very smooth and precise.

On my 1958 Hofner Senator, it has the original open backed tuners still, they look very flimsy, but remarkably they work very well.

**Jabberwocky** · 09-08-2015, 01:32 AM

I like the Gotoh 510 series. The Schertlers are nice too. Open-back Waverlys are wonderful when I can afford them.; if I had the funds they would be on every guitar I own.

The Schaller tuning machines look right on any Gibson though so I guess I will stick with them.

**Spook410** · 09-08-2015, 03:54 AM

Gotoh 510's. Smooth and high quality construction. Dig the cosmo black. A compatible swap for many of my guitars.

Sperzel tuners. Very solid build. Locking function works well. Varied and nice looking finishes.

Schertler. Function perfectly and IMHO are the best looking tuners out there.

Planet Waves locking with auto trim. Convenient. Well made. But for some reason breaks G and D strings at the peg if you don't use several wraps.

**Top of the Arch!** · 09-08-2015, 08:20 AM

Schallers or Gotohs , I did recently purchase a set of Klusons that Im just as happy with, they are the sealed ones with the screwed in keystone buttons, they stay tight. Bob

**oldane** · 09-08-2015, 09:40 AM

I think all the well reputed brands work well, so for me, it's a matter of how they look on a particular instrument. FWIW, I have Grover Rotomatic on a Painter, Grover mini Rotomatic on a Strat partscaster. I also have Grover Imperial and Schallers M6 and Schaller M6 Mini on some of my guitars. They all do their job without problems. I also have a couple of cheaper guitars with no-name tuners on them. If they work OK, I leave them on, if not, I replace them. When I replaced the tuners on my old Gretsch New Yorker, I put on Schaller M6 - not because they were better than other good brands but because I got them cheap at a fire sale at our local shop. My 19" Triggs Stromberg "hommage" has gold Grover Imperials (but Kluson Sealfast would also have been appropiate from an aesthetic point of view). My 1961 Gibson 175 had replacement Schaller M6 tuners in 1973 and to this day they still work as new.

**jazz.fred** · 09-08-2015, 10:19 AM

1.Grover Imperials
2. Grover GH102 Super Rotomatic -Very similar to Imperials, but a little cheaper
3. Spertzel Locking

**jorgemg1984** · 09-08-2015, 11:15 AM

Schaller!

**John A.** · 09-08-2015, 11:21 AM

Believe it or not, the tuners I've found to function best were the plain Kluson Deluxe style tuners I had on a late 90s Les Paul. They had less backlash than any of the die cast tuners I've had on other guitars, and a very fine ratio, so they were the easiest to actually use to tune a guitar. In the past, I've had no-name Asian die cast tuners and Schaller mini tuners (forgot the model number). I currently have Grover Super Rotomatics and Fender branded Schallers. Functionally, apart from ratio, I find all of these indistinguishable (the Super Rotomatics are the coarsest of the bunch). I have 3-on-a-plate Klusons on one guitar, which suck, but not enough to go to the trouble of replacing.

John.

**Greentone** · 09-08-2015, 11:23 AM

The best I have ever used were Kluson Sealfast--the ones on the old Super 400 and L-5 guitars. The Kluson wafflebacks on my old SG Custom were excellent tuners, too.

Grover Sta-tite tuners, on most of my old archtop guitars, were set 'em and forget 'em. They just were not as smooth as the Sealfast and waffleback tuners.

Among the more modern tuners, the pre-import Grover Imperial and Roto-matic tuners have been excellent for me. Smooth, and generally accurate.

The Schaller tuners on my Guild flattop are as smooth as my Grover Roto-matics and as set 'em and forget 'em as my old Sta-tites. GREAT tuners.

It's in the eye of the beholder, but for an archtop I doubt that you can find a more beautiful tuner than the old Sealfast with amber Catalin keys.

**Jim Soloway** · 09-08-2015, 11:59 AM

I like Hipshot locking tuners. When we were still building I used them on about 350 guitars and I have them on both my plank and my archtop. Great tuners: accurate, convenient, and reliable. Lot's of choices in buttons so you can customize the appearance.

**vinlander** · 09-08-2015, 12:10 PM

I had nothing but good experience with aftermarket Grover rotomatics on my various tinkering projects.
Even the vintage kluson style made by Grover do a perfect job on my Joe Pass.
Nothing to say against the stock Kluson on both my Gibson LP and SG

**Klatu** · 09-09-2015, 12:19 AM

If you were to replace a set of Grovers with Gotoh 510s, would they be a perfect replacement fit, or would there be drilling involved?

**helios** · 09-09-2015, 12:24 AM

"These Kluson Sealfast's must be the "best." Why else would they have sold for $1k for a set of 6?

"

2Born,
Yikes! When did Kluson discontinue them, and for heaven's sake why? They sure look very classy! Jeff

**Ol' Fret** · 09-09-2015, 02:47 AM

Many a great vintage tuners out there. Here a detail shot from a guitar on my workbench that in years sailed the world's oceans in the hands of a naval officer. You can still see the rusty screws, some harmless micro-cracks in the wood and the grime from a rough life.
Which carved archtop guitar would you choose for such a task field?
The tuning machines are still working flawlessly...

Best Tuning Machines In Your Opinion?-dscf0572b-jpg

Best Tuning Machines In Your Opinion?-dscf0572b-jpg

Unfortunately, the "best" tuning machines for many vintage and most modern fine electric-acoustic archtop guitars are normally the lightest, which means: open back design. Great materials, precise processing and performance, wear resistance, appearance and originality (plus the matter of expense) are other factors to think of.

These ones are hard to beat today: GrandTune | Schaller-Electronic - not least because the manufacturer seems to join forces with research organizations like the Fraunhofer Society (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraunhofer_Society ).

>> I like Hipshot locking tuners. When we were still building I used them on about 350 guitars and I have them on both my plank and my archtop. Great tuners: accurate, convenient, and reliable. <<
Some Hipshot machine heads are made from original Schaller parts.

For that matter... on the US-German connection: not few "original" US guitar products are being developed and actually produced in Germany.
Just one more example: Jescar fretwire.
What's really annoying: you can only order Jescar fretwire in Germany if you're a wholesaler. Most of the rest is dependent on reimporting with correspondingly very high shipping, VAT and customs duties.
What a mess - certainly not helping the marketing policy and reputation of some brands!

**IbanezAS100** · 09-09-2015, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by Ol' Fret

For that matter... on the US-German connection: not few "original" US guitar products are being developed and actually produced in Germany.
Just one more example: Jescar fretwire.
What's really annoying: you can only order Jescar fretwire in Germany if you're a wholesaler. Most of the rest is dependent on reimporting with correspondingly very high shipping, VAT and customs duties.
What a mess - certainly not helping the marketing policy and reputation of some brands!

You probably know this already, but can you not order from the UK or anywhere else within the EU?

I got some Jescar EVO gold from these guys: EVO Gold Fret Wire from Jescar

Re tuners, my vote also goes to Gotoh 510 (on 2 of my guitars) and Schertler (on my Schertler SB flattop). The Schallers on my Hofner work pretty flawlessly too.

**Greentone** · 09-09-2015, 09:18 AM

Yeah, the Gotoh 510 tuners on my Japanese Super-V copy are superbly crafted. Smooth as silk and NEVER need to be tweaked, once you set the tuning.

**Klatu** · 09-09-2015, 10:11 AM

Before reading this thread, I thought that improved tuning machines served only to more precisely reach the proper tuning, but that most machines held their tuning equally well. Some of the posts seem to indicate that lesser quality tuners lose their tuning for often. Could someone please write about why a tuning machine that satisfactorily reached the proper tuning would lose that tuning without drastic changes in temperature or humidity.

I have an old Epiphone Triumph sporting replacement Grover tuners that needs to be tuned more often than some of my newer acoustic archtops. I thought it was because of its age and construction, but I am now thinking that the problem may lie in the tuning machines.

**Ray175** · 09-09-2015, 10:55 AM

The most reliable "modern" tuners I have used are the locking Velve Tune tuners that could be found on guitars at the top end of the Ibanez models in the 1970s. Silky smooth and rock solid. They occasionally come up on e-Bay and I'm currently on the look out for a set to replace the Gotoh tuners on an Ibanez 2619 Prestige

The Tonepro Klusons on my 1961 ES175D are still very smooth and light to adjust - an occasional drop of lubricant is needed every 3 or 4 years

**Max405** · 09-09-2015, 11:45 AM

For years I liked the SuperRotomatics with the Imperial Buttons.
2 years ago I bought a GB-10 with VelveTune machine heads that I loved. I just bought a JP-20 with the same tuners. I am convinced after owning 2 sets they are the best tuners I've ever used. They are so smooth. They hold tune. And the Gold plating on these are new looking after 35 YEARS!!!

Ibanez VelveTune machine heads, #1 for me.

Joe D.

**wintermoon** · 09-09-2015, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Greentone

Yeah, the Gotoh 510 tuners on my Japanese Super-V copy are superbly crafted. Smooth as silk and NEVER need to be tweaked, once you set the tuning.

the ones on one of my PE-180s are on their last leg, I need to find a replacement set.
this guitar was played to death, the frets were worn to the board when I got it, so the tuners have seen a lot of use

**mr. beaumont** · 09-09-2015, 12:28 PM

My Heritage 575 was played VERY hard and VERY often before I even bought it, and the 20 year old Grover Rotomatics on it still work great...so that has to count for something.

**campusfive** · 09-09-2015, 02:32 PM

I replaced the original Grover Sta-tites on my '37 ES-150 with identical Waverlys, and the difference was amazing. Super smooth, held perfectly. Everything I could ever want. (Of course the original tuners have been saved).

Now my buddy's '39 ES-150 had some Grover tulips added at some point, and he replaced them with the new Grover Sta-tites, which are also quite good. However, I did notice they weren't as luxurious feeling as the waverlys. But totally functional.

The only downside to the waverlys was that I opted for the aged nickel, and it was way more aged than the actual 80 year old hardware. And my friends nickel grovers do look a tad too shiny compared to the other hardware. Damned if you do...