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  1. #1

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    Looking for a small, perhaps micro size delay pedal.

    No far-our spacey sounds, just enough to add a subtle little breadth to my reverb. I would probably just set it and forget it.

    What I am wondering is, what is the difference between analog and digital delays?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Digital delays are "pristine" and give you back exactly what you put in.

    Analog delays, or digitally simulated analog delays (sometimes called "echo") tend to have color and degradation on the repeats. This can be tape warble, decreasing high end, decreasing low end, etc. They are often referred to as "vintage" as well since they are reproducing the desirable shortcomings of older delay designs. A good tape or analog simulation will give you control over all those degradations, from none to extreme. A real tape or analog delay has whatever characteristics it has, and you like it or you don't.

    Analog usually means an integrated circuit (IC) like used in old Memory Man, or Boss delays. There are still real analog delays made, and most will use the same delay chip—often referred to as "bucket brigade" as shorthand in marketing or in online conversations to refer to the sound quality of those pedals that used ICs. They sound good,—usually described as warm—but the downside is you start getting lots of noise and undesirable artifacts the longer the delay time is, so delay times tend to be much shorter than what you can do digitally (theoretically limited only by the memory and processor).

    The TC Flashback, either in the original or mini size, is a great delay. It sounds fantastic, and gives you just enough controls and delay types to be useful. It's also one of my favorite tape echo sims, and I owned a Strymon Timeline and currently have an Eventide H9. It also includes modulated delays, digital delays, and the ability to download and add patches from the TC site.

    If you need really mini, Mooer has a few:
    Amazon.com: Mooer Ana Echo, analog delay micro pedal: Musical Instruments
    Amazon.com: Mooer Reecho, digital delay pedal: Musical Instruments

    If you need ultra mini, it doesn't get much smaller than Hotone.

    If sound is priority over size, I would go with the TC.
    Last edited by spiral; 08-31-2015 at 02:14 PM.

  4. #3

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    Analog delay sounds like early Pink Floyd, digital delay sounds like Alan Holdsworth or Mike Stern

  5. #4

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    I also have a TC Flashback, compact version.

    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-tc-flashback-jpeg

    If you want to get some inexpensive first hand experience, there is the Artec Tape Echo, it's about $40 new and is decent. (it does one thing ARTEC MTE TAPE ECHO DELAY MINI STOMP VINTAGE TONAL RESPONSE | Reverb)

  6. #5

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    That is the same format used by Mooer & Eno (maybe the same OEM). I've had some Eno pedals. They are well made, sound good, and cheap, and I presume the Artec is the same. Artec makes most of the pickups for GFS. If you want to make your head spin do a search for "mini delay" or "micro delay" on Reverb.

  7. #6

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    My all-time favourite pedal is the Earthquaker Devices Dispatch Master. It's a combined delay and reverb pedal. In my opinion, it's the "modern jazz guitar sound" in a box. I've turned a few guys on to it - Lage Lund borrowed mine and now it's the only pedal he takes on tour.

    These videos give a good overview:



    Last edited by David B; 08-31-2015 at 05:42 PM.

  8. #7

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    The TC is great, I really liked the Alter Ego 2 version.


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-tc-electronic-alter-ego-2-jpg

  9. #8

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    one thing that hasn't been covered is that, as a time based effect, it will sound a million times better if you run it through your amp's effects loop, if you have one.

    after much trial and error i came to find i'm an analog delay guy, but i have several tape options as well. not really a digital (voiced) delay guy, but i think most average joes are. as for the difference between the analog and digital, are you referring to the voicing of the pedal or it's actual construction?

    Quote Originally Posted by David B
    My all-time favourite pedal is the Earthquaker Devices Dispatch Master. It's a combined delay and reverb pedal. In my opinion, it's the "modern jazz guitar sound" in a box. I've turned a few guys on to it - Lage Lund borrowed mine and now it's the only pedal he takes on tour.
    i also like my dm a fair amount. it was ocerdriving kind of early so i moved it toward the front of the chain and eventually to another amp where it sounds super amazing through the loop. there are some other pedals covering this ground now, like the new keeley caverns.

    Quote Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
    The TC is great, I really liked the Alter Ego 2 version.
    it took me super forever to come around to this pedal again but it finally happened. strangely, the cheesey sheen and excessive modulation help it cut through the other pedals in the chain when in front of my amp, so i parked it there. all is well again.

  10. #9

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    It does have a lot of modulation... still some cool unique sounds. And I designed my own toneprint to have a less modulated delay

    I agree, fx loop is great for delays.

  11. #10

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    as spiral pointed out above, usually analog delay refers to the 70's bucket brigade pedals…not the earlier freestanding large box tape echo machines like meazzi, watkins or echoplex….and also not the weirder ones like the binson echorec which used a disc instead of tape

    that's the sound of pink floyd!…from syd barrett thru dark side…in the film pink floyd at pompeii gilmour, waters and wright all have binson echorecs…unfortunately they are notorious to maintain in proper working order

    to the rescue with a digital pedal emulation came -the catalinbread echorec-…it's a multitap echo which can mix repeats of different ms increments…i have one and love it

    pic of the original and the new pedal

    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-catalinbread-echorec-4-jpg

    & gilmour

    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-davidsgear_binson70s-jpg

    so theoretically there are tape, analog and digital delays...

    cheers

  12. #11

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    The TC Electronic ND-1 delay lets you emulate a "tape" vs "digital" return signal using the color knob (I blend the two). I find that when using the delay (which I pretty much always do) reverb is unnecessary, as the delay can be tailored to add a subtle fullness to the guitar sound.


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-tc-electronic-nd-1-png


  13. #12

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    I've used many delays over the years, so I'll have to admit that I rarely play without it nowadays, at the moment I'm using the TC Electronic M350 rack mount, which combines both delay and reverb, with a tap/time feature.

    I also use the delay/reverb/loop features on the inexpensive, but good quality Zoom G3 multi pedal, which I like too.


    TC Electronic M350 rack mount.

  14. #13

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    I forgot to mention the Zoom MS100BT. Same size and price as a delay and offers tons of delays, reverbs, overdrives and modulationa plus tuner and parametric eq. My favourite pedal!


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-zoom-ms-100bt-jpg

  15. #14

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    I like Zoom's stuff, does the Zoom MS100BT have a loop function?

  16. #15

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    There are lots of great delay pedals out there, and I have my favorites, too. The OP, however, requested a "mini" pedal, which I think limits the choices.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcwhy
    There are lots of great delay pedals out there, and I have my favorites, too. The OP, however, requested a "mini" pedal, which I think limits the choices.

    Mini, no, what he really needs is a big watkins copicat.


  18. #17
    OP here, bought a Rowin LEF-614. Small, simple. But when I get the chance I'm going to try that Earthquaker combo pedal. With the new Quilter mini head it might be all you need


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-rowin-lef-614-jpg

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    that's the sound of pink floyd!…from syd barrett thru dark side…in the film pink floyd at pompeii gilmour, waters and wright all have binson echorecs…unfortunately they are notorious to maintain in proper working order
    I'm a big PF fan and have watched At Pompeii at least 10 times. Good stuff. I didn't love the Catalinbread Echorec at all. It was easily overloaded w/ clipping in the signal (not in a good way) and didn't find the sound too close to an Echorec. I tried asking Catalinbread about it and they were very unpleasant. It just sounded like a good delay with some grit and not worth the price. The Alter Ego 2 has a decent Echorec emulation.

    For hardcore Echorec fans, this is finally shipping:
    https://www.jrrshop.com/gurus-amps-echosex-2 ($339 when you add it to the cart)

    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-1145_0_echosex2-jpeg

  20. #19

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    for me the most important part of the echorec is the multi tap echoes..that's its key feature!!!..to have an single head echo and call it an echorec emulation is ridiculous..no matter how close it gets tone wise…entire pink floyd songs are based on the multitap repeats!...the catalinbread does all the multitaps of the original binson and more…

    however and importantly, it needs an 18v power supply to be at its cleanest best..it also has internal trimpots for further tweaking..i love mine


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-catalinbread-echorec-jpg
    Last edited by neatomic; 09-01-2015 at 06:10 PM.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by helios
    The TC Electronic ND-1 delay lets you emulate a "tape" vs "digital" return signal using the color knob (I blend the two). I find that when using the delay (which I pretty much always do) reverb is unnecessary, as the delay can be tailored to add a subtle fullness to the guitar sound.
    i found the one i had to be solid if a little unimpressive. it did more than i needed it to, but the feature set was pretty cool, and wasn't that hard to figure out. wish i had tried it through a loop, but i was clipping mine too easily going into the front end of a vox, so it had to go. did everything well, though, which is enough for most. i did find the wall wart dependence annoying, though. didn't get along with my power supply at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuyBoden
    Mini, no, what he really needs is a big watkins copicat.
    if the alter ego 2 is any indication, its a neat delay, but way too dirty for most. you have to want the dirt and actually play the delay to make full use of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    for me the most important part of the echorec is the multi tap echoes..that's its key feature!!
    i also thought that was the point, though i don't go for the multitap myself. the catalinbread delays tend to be fairly involved, with hidden features and internal knobs and such. i've used the belle epoch for a few years now with varying levels of success, but they were very helpful and friendly when it needed attention.

    that echosex sounded really good, though... i don't mess with the alter ego 2's binson setting much but maybe i should. delays are just one of those things that i just love, even though i have a bunch already and don't really use them all that much.

  22. #21

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    It's been said but I think the best delay/reverb combo is Earthquaker Devices Dispatch Master, also the Boss RV-3 is a classic, both can do subtle and more. For a just delay unit, something with few knobs like the Rowin LEF-614 that the OP got should work.


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-earthquaker-devices-dispatch-master-jpg

  23. #22

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    I love the sound of the mad professor deep blue delay. It is a tape delay.


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-mad-professor-deep-blue-delay-jpg

  24. #23

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    Anyone else using the DMB lunar echo?


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-dmb-lunar-echo-jpg

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcat
    Original poster sought 'a little sublety'. I seek the same thing in a delay pedal +/- reverb.
    I honestly don't think it matters what you buy if you are only looking for subtle. Any delay should serve the purpose since you won't hear much of the color of the delay if it sits way back.

    Get the TC Flashback if you want a broad range of delay types that you can easily dial back to subtle, or get an Eno, Mooer, or Hotone if you want something tiny and cheap. I'd still get the TC because it allows you to explore more down the road, and you'll get back what you paid if you buy used and decide to sell.

    If you want reverb too, Dispatch Master (mentioned above), VHT Echo-Verb, Endless Summer, and Mooer Spark Echo should work.

  26. #25

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    Really good stuff in this thread, sorry to bump it but my next pedal is a delay. I'm very excited to shop for it, but also overwhelmed! :/

    I think I'm leaning towards a digital delay, and between the options in this thread and this delay pedal article I came across (one of the more informative and well-written ones I thought), the TC Electronic Flashback is getting a lot of praise. I think my only reservation is this: Should I forego the versatility, tonal variety, and TonePrint feature of the Flashback and instead revel in the warmth and simplicity of an MXR Carbon Copy? I'm surprised there was no mention of the CC in this thread (granted OP was asking for a small/micro size delay).

    I think I'm going for the Flashback, either the normal or the mini depending on bank account status. But before I pull the trigger, any opinions on the Carbon Copy?
    Last edited by teddypicker; 09-13-2019 at 06:36 PM.

  27. #26

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    I had an MXR Carbon Copy for year and thought it did a pretty good job. It is pure bucket brigade technology so it gets noticeably noisy the longer the delay becomes. I think it's a decent pedal to pick up for $85-90.

    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-mxr-carbon-copy-jpg

    Diamond Memory Lane Junior is a hybrid analog/digital that I'm sold on. Perfectly quiet, longer delays, warm tone, and sweet modulation. They run about $220 used... but are worth it IMHO. Lots of good delays out there in the $200+ range.

    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-diamon-memory-lane-jr-jpg

  28. #27

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    From what I hear the carbon copy is very good...although there is a new carbon copy out. I tried a boss Dd5, a trex replica, and a strymon. Didn't get sonic satisfaction out of any of them. I ended up with an Eventide. I love it. Totally pure and despite being a pain to set up...it's worth it when you get there.

  29. #28

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    +1 Flashback Mini.

  30. #29

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    I've played many delays, many good ones. Expected to much prefer analog, but the opposite has happened. Digital does not have to be pristine strictly. So many different flavors of delay, hard to say what would work best for you. My favorites:

    Skreddy Echo
    Echosex 2
    TC alter ego v2
    Catalinbread Montavillian

    MD

  31. #30

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    The CC is nice but I could dial a very similar sound using TC's editor - with the bonus of having vibrato instead of chorus.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by vernon
    I had an MXR Carbon Copy for year and thought it did a pretty good job. It is pure bucket brigade technology so it gets noticeably noisy the longer the delay becomes.
    Thanks! What exactly is this "bucket brigade" business I keep reading about? I haven't found a good definition for what exactly that means...

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by David B
    My all-time favourite pedal is the Earthquaker Devices Dispatch Master. It's a combined delay and reverb pedal. In my opinion, it's the "modern jazz guitar sound" in a box. I've turned a few guys on to it - Lage Lund borrowed mine and now it's the only pedal he takes on tour.

    These videos give a good overview:



    I was actually thinking about getting a delay pedal when i saw this. I listened to a few demos, but its mostly showcased in extreme ambience settings, how well would it do as a more subtle effect? I would be interested to see how its used in a jazz situation, because it does sound pretty good!

  34. #33

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    I've dialed it back far enough a few times to allow some single note/finger picked/chordal stuff. it works, but that's not the fun or the point of the pedal.

    the two keys to the dispatch master (to me) are to think of it as both reverb and delay and not two separate things. the other is to use it through an effects loop, where it sounds much better than it does in front of an amp (though its still worth owning even in front of an amp).

    also, the new walrus bellwether analog delay is soooo interesting.

  35. #34

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    Ok i got that, but how would you use in a jazz context? Would you use for ballads maybe , how about when playing a straight ahead jazz tune? I think having reverb and delay in one pedal is super cool, but this one might be a bit too ambient for a regular jazz gig? Thats what im trying to find out.

  36. #35

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    Plenty of people use reverb and delay together - Monder, Rosenwinkel, Lund, Kreisberg, Hekselman, etc... It works!

  37. #36

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    Neunaber, great, great, great brand, for me the best!

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    Ok i got that, but how would you use in a jazz context? Would you use for ballads maybe , how about when playing a straight ahead jazz tune? I think having reverb and delay in one pedal is super cool, but this one might be a bit too ambient for a regular jazz gig? Thats what im trying to find out.
    i'm inclined to say... perhaps? it obviously depends on what you want to accomplish and how you go about it but were i to be playing ballads and standards, i'd reach for something else. i'd probably omit delay altogether. unless you were purposely trying to do something a little different. for straight ahead stuff, a plate or spring reverb would be enough for me.

    the delay has sort of a dark, digital voice (as opposed to analog or tape). very clear. the reverb is modulated but pleasantly so. and as you increase the repeats for the delay, it also increases the modulation on the reverb. so they are stuck together, but not in a bad way. that's why i advise people to take it as one effect, and not two in one box, though you could use one without the other. i guess i'm saying that i wouldn't use it as my only source of reverb or delay, unless i was able to work within those limitations.

    the really neat (and to me, unique) thing about the pedal is that what you play is always way out front. the repeats and the ambiance always sit far behind the original note so you don't get the "wall of crap" sound that you would from other delays. for that reason, its interesting in a solo guitar context as you get all kinds of space without obscuring what you play.

  39. #38

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    i am using delays a lot
    my best delay is an analog Handmade Jam pedal

    JAM pedals - handmade analog pedals - Delay Llama Supreme



    and of course i am in love with me Eventide timefactor


  40. #39

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    I 've been using a Morley Delay and it's old. It says "analog" on the label.

    When I step on the switch, the signal gets brighter. I use a 12v. power adapter (its what is recommended).

    But lately, the wet signal (on) is getting a bit quieter than the dry signal (off).

    Is it normal for the signal to be brighter?

    I guess it's time to start trying out some new delays.


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-morley-analog-delay-jpg

  41. #40

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    Just so an opposing voice is heard, I have to say that while I love a touch of reverb I hate delay. Reverb can (should) sound "natural", delay always sounds like an effect to me.
    I already heard what you just played, I don't need to hear it 3 more times.
    Sorry to be negative but it's my honest opinion.

  42. #41

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    Well yes, delay is an "effect". I use it sparingly to have a different feel, a texture at times. And some passages benefit, others don't. It helps to keep the number of repeats down to 1 or 2 max!.

    But... not everyone feels the same. At least "chorus" pedals are less common these days, I hope.

  43. #42

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    Low mix dark delay can sound pretty natural.

    Is anyone aware of a cheap delay that has a reverse option and a kill dry too?

  44. #43

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    Not exactly cheap and you may have to buy it used, but the TC Electronic Nova Repeater matches your requirements. It also has a tone control.


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-tc-electronic-nova-repeater-png

  45. #44

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    I just like a little slapback effect, every now and then--when I want to do some Chet or Merle, for example. For that, I just use a MXR Carbon Copy Analog Delay pedal (the green one) that I set years ago and don't fool with. I just stomp the button and there's the slap/echo. Simple and reliable.

    Every once in a while, it's "Mystery Train" and "I'll See You In My Dreams," not "Cottontail" and "Airegin."
    Last edited by Greentone; 03-01-2016 at 03:49 PM.

  46. #45

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    Not jazz but worth a look


  47. #46

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    @jorgemg1984 I have a Digitech DL-8 that I use pretty much exclusively for reverse effects (I have another simple delay that I use for my main delay). Got it off ebay for less than 100.


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-digitech-dl-8-jpg

  48. #47

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    Duotone and morekiller - thanks for the tips! I am checking those and also the Nova Delay and the new Digitech Obscura.

    I also use a regular delay and an extra just for reverse and another one extra for auto swell. I use Zoom pedals for these and they sound great but I was looking for another option that required less ma power and allowed me to change my board a little.

  49. #48

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    the nova repeater runs at 12v, if memory serves, which is a little annoying. i remember it coming with its own little adapter, but still. it did everything well, but nothing amazingly. the stereo and ping pong were fun, though. good way to have many sounds in one box.

    don't know about kill dry, but for cheap reverses, maybe an old echo park (assuming it still works)? the hardwire isn't that different from the digitech in terms of algorithms, but the obscura has extra knobs so you can tweak it further. and a little skull face man, too.


    Educate Me About Delay Pedals-line-6-echo-park-jpg

  50. #49

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    Thanks feet, 12v is no bother! Echo Park is not an option because I don't trust Line 6... but the obscura is.

    I am actually trying to organize my normal delay (dark modulated, stereo with ping pong would be perfect) and my "crazy" delays (auto swell, reverse delay with kill dry, oscillation, all stereo preferably). Let's see what I come up with

  51. #50

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    It's time for a new, simple, delay. Mine has just died and did suck tone a bit (a Malekko Ekko 616 analog delay). I am looking for suggestions for a simple delay, to leave on low, with a little reverb, full time. Does not have to be inexpensive but I am tone sensitive and want clean - at least to the extent possible with an added pedal in the chain. I appreciate any suggestions!