Educate Me About Delay Pedals

[Woody Sound]

Looking for a small, perhaps micro size delay pedal.

No far-our spacey sounds, just enough to add a subtle little breadth to my reverb. I would probably just set it and forget it.

What I am wondering is, what is the difference between analog and digital delays?

[spiral]

Digital delays are "pristine" and give you back exactly what you put in.

Analog delays, or digitally simulated analog delays (sometimes called "echo") tend to have color and degradation on the repeats. This can be tape warble, decreasing high end, decreasing low end, etc. They are often referred to as "vintage" as well since they are reproducing the desirable shortcomings of older delay designs. A good tape or analog simulation will give you control over all those degradations, from none to extreme. A real tape or analog delay has whatever characteristics it has, and you like it or you don't.

Analog usually means an integrated circuit (IC) like used in old Memory Man, or Boss delays. There are still real analog delays made, and most will use the same delay chip—often referred to as "bucket brigade" as shorthand in marketing or in online conversations to refer to the sound quality of those pedals that used ICs. They sound good,—usually described as warm—but the downside is you start getting lots of noise and undesirable artifacts the longer the delay time is, so delay times tend to be much shorter than what you can do digitally (theoretically limited only by the memory and processor).

The TC Flashback, either in the original or mini size, is a great delay. It sounds fantastic, and gives you just enough controls and delay types to be useful. It's also one of my favorite tape echo sims, and I owned a Strymon Timeline and currently have an Eventide H9. It also includes modulated delays, digital delays, and the ability to download and add patches from the TC site.

If you need really mini, Mooer has a few:
Amazon.com: Mooer Ana Echo, analog delay micro pedal: Musical Instruments
Amazon.com: Mooer Reecho, digital delay pedal: Musical Instruments

If you need ultra mini, it doesn't get much smaller than Hotone.

If sound is priority over size, I would go with the TC.

[eddy b.]

Analog delay sounds like early Pink Floyd, digital delay sounds like Alan Holdsworth or Mike Stern

[s1track3d]

I also have a TC Flashback, compact version.



If you want to get some inexpensive first hand experience, there is the Artec Tape Echo, it's about $40 new and is decent. (it does one thing ARTEC MTE TAPE ECHO DELAY MINI STOMP VINTAGE TONAL RESPONSE | Reverb)

[spiral]

That is the same format used by Mooer & Eno (maybe the same OEM). I've had some Eno pedals. They are well made, sound good, and cheap, and I presume the Artec is the same. Artec makes most of the pickups for GFS. If you want to make your head spin do a search for "mini delay" or "micro delay" on Reverb.

[David B]

My all-time favourite pedal is the Earthquaker Devices Dispatch Master. It's a combined delay and reverb pedal. In my opinion, it's the "modern jazz guitar sound" in a box. I've turned a few guys on to it - Lage Lund borrowed mine and now it's the only pedal he takes on tour.

These videos give a good overview:

[jorgemg1984]

The TC is great, I really liked the Alter Ego 2 version.

[feet]

one thing that hasn't been covered is that, as a time based effect, it will sound a million times better if you run it through your amp's effects loop, if you have one.

after much trial and error i came to find i'm an analog delay guy, but i have several tape options as well. not really a digital (voiced) delay guy, but i think most average joes are. as for the difference between the analog and digital, are you referring to the voicing of the pedal or it's actual construction?

My all-time favourite pedal is the Earthquaker Devices Dispatch Master. It's a combined delay and reverb pedal. In my opinion, it's the "modern jazz guitar sound" in a box. I've turned a few guys on to it - Lage Lund borrowed mine and now it's the only pedal he takes on tour.

i also like my dm a fair amount. it was ocerdriving kind of early so i moved it toward the front of the chain and eventually to another amp where it sounds super amazing through the loop. there are some other pedals covering this ground now, like the new keeley caverns.

The TC is great, I really liked the Alter Ego 2 version.

it took me super forever to come around to this pedal again but it finally happened. strangely, the cheesey sheen and excessive modulation help it cut through the other pedals in the chain when in front of my amp, so i parked it there. all is well again.

[jorgemg1984]

It does have a lot of modulation... still some cool unique sounds. And I designed my own toneprint to have a less modulated delay

I agree, fx loop is great for delays.

[neatomic]

as spiral pointed out above, usually analog delay refers to the 70's bucket brigade pedals…not the earlier freestanding large box tape echo machines like meazzi, watkins or echoplex….and also not the weirder ones like the binson echorec which used a disc instead of tape

that's the sound of pink floyd!…from syd barrett thru dark side…in the film pink floyd at pompeii gilmour, waters and wright all have binson echorecs…unfortunately they are notorious to maintain in proper working order

to the rescue with a digital pedal emulation came -the catalinbread echorec-…it's a multitap echo which can mix repeats of different ms increments…i have one and love it

pic of the original and the new pedal



& gilmour



so theoretically there are tape, analog and digital delays...

cheers

[helios]

The TC Electronic ND-1 delay lets you emulate a "tape" vs "digital" return signal using the color knob (I blend the two). I find that when using the delay (which I pretty much always do) reverb is unnecessary, as the delay can be tailored to add a subtle fullness to the guitar sound.

[GuyBoden]

I've used many delays over the years, so I'll have to admit that I rarely play without it nowadays, at the moment I'm using the TC Electronic M350 rack mount, which combines both delay and reverb, with a tap/time feature.

I also use the delay/reverb/loop features on the inexpensive, but good quality Zoom G3 multi pedal, which I like too.


TC Electronic M350 rack mount.

[jorgemg1984]

I forgot to mention the Zoom MS100BT. Same size and price as a delay and offers tons of delays, reverbs, overdrives and modulationa plus tuner and parametric eq. My favourite pedal!

[GuyBoden]

I like Zoom's stuff, does the Zoom MS100BT have a loop function?

[marcwhy]

There are lots of great delay pedals out there, and I have my favorites, too. The OP, however, requested a "mini" pedal, which I think limits the choices.

[GuyBoden]

There are lots of great delay pedals out there, and I have my favorites, too. The OP, however, requested a "mini" pedal, which I think limits the choices.

Mini, no, what he really needs is a big watkins copicat.

[Woody Sound]

OP here, bought a Rowin LEF-614. Small, simple. But when I get the chance I'm going to try that Earthquaker combo pedal. With the new Quilter mini head it might be all you need

[spiral]

that's the sound of pink floyd!…from syd barrett thru dark side…in the film pink floyd at pompeii gilmour, waters and wright all have binson echorecs…unfortunately they are notorious to maintain in proper working order

I'm a big PF fan and have watched At Pompeii at least 10 times. Good stuff. I didn't love the Catalinbread Echorec at all. It was easily overloaded w/ clipping in the signal (not in a good way) and didn't find the sound too close to an Echorec. I tried asking Catalinbread about it and they were very unpleasant. It just sounded like a good delay with some grit and not worth the price. The Alter Ego 2 has a decent Echorec emulation.

For hardcore Echorec fans, this is finally shipping:
https://www.jrrshop.com/gurus-amps-echosex-2 ($339 when you add it to the cart)

[neatomic]

for me the most important part of the echorec is the multi tap echoes..that's its key feature!!!..to have an single head echo and call it an echorec emulation is ridiculous..no matter how close it gets tone wise…entire pink floyd songs are based on the multitap repeats!...the catalinbread does all the multitaps of the original binson and more…

however and importantly, it needs an 18v power supply to be at its cleanest best..it also has internal trimpots for further tweaking..i love mine

[feet]

The TC Electronic ND-1 delay lets you emulate a "tape" vs "digital" return signal using the color knob (I blend the two). I find that when using the delay (which I pretty much always do) reverb is unnecessary, as the delay can be tailored to add a subtle fullness to the guitar sound.

i found the one i had to be solid if a little unimpressive. it did more than i needed it to, but the feature set was pretty cool, and wasn't that hard to figure out. wish i had tried it through a loop, but i was clipping mine too easily going into the front end of a vox, so it had to go. did everything well, though, which is enough for most. i did find the wall wart dependence annoying, though. didn't get along with my power supply at the time.

Mini, no, what he really needs is a big watkins copicat.

if the alter ego 2 is any indication, its a neat delay, but way too dirty for most. you have to want the dirt and actually play the delay to make full use of it.

for me the most important part of the echorec is the multi tap echoes..that's its key feature!!

i also thought that was the point, though i don't go for the multitap myself. the catalinbread delays tend to be fairly involved, with hidden features and internal knobs and such. i've used the belle epoch for a few years now with varying levels of success, but they were very helpful and friendly when it needed attention.

that echosex sounded really good, though... i don't mess with the alter ego 2's binson setting much but maybe i should. delays are just one of those things that i just love, even though i have a bunch already and don't really use them all that much.

[s1track3d]

It's been said but I think the best delay/reverb combo is Earthquaker Devices Dispatch Master, also the Boss RV-3 is a classic, both can do subtle and more. For a just delay unit, something with few knobs like the Rowin LEF-614 that the OP got should work.

[Frank67]

I love the sound of the mad professor deep blue delay. It is a tape delay.

[LaVinci]

Anyone else using the DMB lunar echo?

[spiral]

Original poster sought 'a little sublety'. I seek the same thing in a delay pedal +/- reverb.

I honestly don't think it matters what you buy if you are only looking for subtle. Any delay should serve the purpose since you won't hear much of the color of the delay if it sits way back.

Get the TC Flashback if you want a broad range of delay types that you can easily dial back to subtle, or get an Eno, Mooer, or Hotone if you want something tiny and cheap. I'd still get the TC because it allows you to explore more down the road, and you'll get back what you paid if you buy used and decide to sell.

If you want reverb too, Dispatch Master (mentioned above), VHT Echo-Verb, Endless Summer, and Mooer Spark Echo should work.

[teddypicker]

Really good stuff in this thread, sorry to bump it but my next pedal is a delay. I'm very excited to shop for it, but also overwhelmed! :/

I think I'm leaning towards a digital delay, and between the options in this thread and this delay pedal article I came across (one of the more informative and well-written ones I thought), the TC Electronic Flashback is getting a lot of praise. I think my only reservation is this: Should I forego the versatility, tonal variety, and TonePrint feature of the Flashback and instead revel in the warmth and simplicity of an MXR Carbon Copy? I'm surprised there was no mention of the CC in this thread (granted OP was asking for a small/micro size delay).

I think I'm going for the Flashback, either the normal or the mini depending on bank account status. But before I pull the trigger, any opinions on the Carbon Copy?